Can't get a good 12X burn

OK I own a Plextor 712A and a NEC3500AG and I tried a couple of types of media but can’t seem to get any media to go past 12X. here are the types of media I have tried.

Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD+R:YUDEN000-T02-000] FROM RIMA.COM

Disc Type : [DVD+R]
Manufacturer ID : [YUDEN000]
Manufacturer Name : [Taiyo Yuden Co. Ltd.]
Media Type ID : [T02]
Product Revision : [Not Specified]
Disc Application Code : [General Purpose]
Recording Speeds : [1x , 2.4x , 4x , 6x-8x]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,295,104 Sectors = 4,482.6MB = 4.38GB (4.70GB)]


Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD+R:RICOHJPN-R01-002]

Disc Type : [DVD+R]
Manufacturer ID : [RICOHJPN]
Manufacturer Name : [Ricoh Company Ltd.]
Media Type ID : [R01]
Product Revision : [002]
Disc Application Code : [General Purpose]
Recording Speeds : [1x , 2.4x , 4x]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,295,104 Sectors = 4,482.6MB = 4.38GB (4.70GB)]

Here is the issue with Both drives, at 8X they are flawless, as close to perfect are your going to get.

At 12X they burn fine without errors then when I test them via plextools PI\PO test for the first 3 gigs they are the same quallity as the 8X burns but then the errors go through the roof, both drives are on there own Intel controller I have a P4P800 Deluxe, they are both in UDMA mode-2. I understand the RICOHJPN not doing well but for the first 3 gigs they are great burns, but the Taiyo Yuden seems to burn at 16X on the NEC drives and 12X on the Plextor for everyone else in these forms. Its only the last gig and a half that seem to suck at 12X or higher. Any idea’s?

Why are you cross posting? :Z

because i have a plextor and a NEC, why do you care

I always care some just blatantly ignores the rules! You might want to read them…

I posted a problem with a NEC drive in the NEC forum and a Plextor drive in the Plextor forum, if a mod thinks it’s a double post he can delete one, mind your own business and don’t waste anymore of my time :bigsmile:

Great, another one… :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Stop posting in my thread, I don’t need anymore of your Mindless dribble, STOP NOW!

Personally, I don’t see any harm that howard_stern (are you the real Howard Stern? :bigsmile: ) cross post. He owns two different drives. I never visit NEC forum as I don’t own NEC burner, or at least not planning to have one yet.

hs, I think most of us (or probably all of us) got great burns with 712a on RICOHJPN-R01-02 even @8x with FW 1.05. I don’t know how they perform @12x with NEC3500.

As for YUDEN-T02 @12x, I think in the media forum here, “some” of us have issues and its probably due to TY quality being down especially on their new batches. I also got this problem, but not as extreme as your post #3. The highest spike I got for T02 is PIE of 30 from 3gigs till the end, with ASPI 4.60. With the latest ASPI 4.71.2 I can get up to 50 PIE, from 2gigs above.

Please explain your scan in post #3, what media, burn speed and burn with drive?

Actually, the title is also related to my own experience. I have good and bad burns, from the same spindle @12x, with MCC003 and TY T02. So perhaps people without this problem could chime in.

Thanks for the reply Z, I also beleive its the media, the burn I posted is with the YUDEN-T02 @12x on the Plextor 712A. My system is rock solid and at 8X all burns are near perfect, what bothers me the most is even my 4X media @12X is perfect until the 3 gig mark then it hits the crapper like the scan I posted. How could the media burn so well then at the 3 gig mark go into the crapper like that.
All burners are on there own channel so I just don’t get it. Oh BTW I am not the real Howard just a big fan.

Okay, I don´t have a Plex, but I hope I can post anyway… :smiley:

I have a thoght about your “3 GB” syndrome and wounder if you can waste a YUDEN T02?
Load it in your drive and burn a “data disc” with Nero CD/DVD Speed att max speed with NEC. Post the result (pic) next time.

I suspect problem in your setup. BTW I have alnearly the same config except for raptors. :cool:

I agree, I think there’s a problem in your setup since you said that T02 from rima @8x burns well. That scan looks terrible.

I see that you’re not a newbie, but even a pro can make small mistakes. Lets start with basic test with your 712a.

  • How is the self test?
  • Where is the jumper, master/slave or CS? The manual clearly state to put the jumper in Master (or slave).
  • Did you put a DMA jumper by mistake? if yes, remove it.

ASPI is hot for me. I made some test with ASPI 4.71.2 (the latest) and ASPI 4.60. I’m not sure how can ASPI affect burn, but here are some scans with Yuden T02 from rima. The first pic is with ASPI 4.71.2, the second with ASPI 4.60.

Pinto and Zevia thats again, I get the same result from my NEC at the same spot, Zevia I see you also get a jump at almost the exact same spot as mine but its not as bad.
Self test passed and the jumper is set to master. I will try updating my ASPI layer.

ok this is what I tried to fix this 12X burning problem, I updated my ASPI to 4.71 and shut down my antivirus program during the burn but at the exact same spot between 2.5 and 3 gig mark the burn fell apart again. This also happens with my NEC drive.
I can tell you this about my system, it runs smooth as Ice, no spyware, no errors in event viewer and all of the latest drivers and bios updates. I just don’t get it. I can’t complain to much because at the rated speed the burns are perfect, but so many seem to be able to burn at 12X and even 16X I thought I should to even though there is only less then a minute diff. My 4X disks burn nice at eight and my 8X disks burn nice at 8 I just can’t get over the hump. WHY WHY WHY so good until the 2.5 gig mark!

Actually I downgraded my ASPI to 4.60. Look at my post #11 again, around 60% improvement (from 50 to 16 PIE).

Well that’s pretty logical since the drive burns at P-CAV, meaning it started the burn process at a certain speed and then gradually increases the speed until it reaches the maximum speed and stays at this speed. It’s obvious that your media cannot handle the increased speeds. Until 8x~10x everything is fine but anything higher than that creates a coaster. I don’t think there is much you can do about this unfortunately.

You missed something G@M3FR3@K, his logic is acceptable, he is using “the best” media YUDEN T02 from rima and I think not all people burn bad @12x like him.

I agree, not all people burn bad with these discs but you have to keep in mind that there is a reason why the discs are certified for 8x recording and not 12x. Even Taiyo Yuden media can turn out bad when they’re written at too high speeds. For instance, I have some 24x CD-R media here from Taiyo Yuden (quite old media) and when I burn them at 24x the results are truly excellent. When I burn them at anything higher than 24x the amount of errors increase dramatically.

When looking at your own scans of the ‘Rima’ media zevia, I see the same behaviour: when the drive reaches higher speeds, the errors increase. I agree, howard’s case is far more extreme but both graphs suggest the same conclusion: the media cannot handle anything higher than 8x.

It could very well be of course that when howard tries a different spindle he might see the same ‘acceptable’ results as yours zevia, it’s hard to say. No two discs are the same unfortunately.

I could not agree with G@M3FR3@K more. If media is only rated as a certain speed you should not be surprised when you get bad results burning it faster. My 708a is a good dvd burner but whenever I burn 4x media at 8x they dont play back right, but its my fault for not using 4x writing, not the media.

Come on guys…we are talking about Quality YUDEN-T02 media rated by NEC to be able and burn at 16X. :cool:
I can understand if Plex has problem to burn these at 12x, but not when we are talking about NEC-3500. Pay a visit to NEC-3500 speed and quality thread.

As soon as howard stern, provides a “datadisc” with Nero CD/DVD Speed on his NEC-3500, we will be able to continue our “speculations”. Howard, we are waiting! :wink:

Hey guys thanks for the help, Pinto what exactly do you need me to do, burn 4 gigs or so on a disk with my NEC drive and run CD/DVD Speed on it. What speed should I burn the data on the NEC drive? It will allow me to select 16X.