Can Liteon 451S be converted via firmware to 851S?

I was at another board and someone mentioned these may have the same chipset and thus the 4x maybe upgradable to 8x…is this true??

who knows for sure? I know I won’t be the guinnea pig for this test :slight_smile:

Anyone else know the answer to this question?

I guess both drives have the same hardware without actually having one of them.
But I also guess that upgrading from 451 to 851 only by using a different firmware is impossible.
There might be another way, but then your drive will probably still only burn coasters when using 8x.
The reason for this has already been discussed a lot of times for the 411S and the 811S

Never say never.

The LDW-411S was manufactured before 8X writing arrived - they tuned it and released the LDW-811S.

Then LDW-451S / LDW-851S came…both arrived when 8X is available so it may just be the firmware that makes the difference.

Depends on how much work Lite-On put into not allowing the overclock.

Time will show :wink:

Is the 8X OPC data present in the 451S? Are the “vender specific” commands working as in the earlier drives? Have they been changed? Deleted?

OC-Freak are you saying that Liteon is trying to stop the practice of overclocking their drives now…

It seems Liteon philosphy in the past was to turn out different speeds and just alter firmware…for the avg end user they have no idea what to do with fw updates…so this allows Liteon to keep production costs down and have a larger line-up and charge different prices…

so who is going to put their money where their mouth is, so to speak, and flash a 451s model with 851s firmware?

Any takers on here?

I believe it could go either way.

If I can get one I will try…

Nealh:
OC-Freak are you saying that Liteon is trying to stop the practice of overclocking their drives now…

From LiteOn’s firmware download page.
Customers, please be aware, that LiteON IT will no longer provide services to the products that have been “Illegally Firmware Upgraded”, such as flashing to other models’ firmware.

This statement or one similar appeared shortly after the 401S@411S controversy which clearly violated LiteOn’s licensing agreement, actually the lack thereof, with the DVD Consortium for the DVD-R(W) licensing fees. Since no sane person would ever expect services to products that have been “Illegally Firmware Upgraded” and I am not aware of LiteOn ever providing support for such products. What is one to make of this statement? It could mean nothing more than “If you screw up your drive by attempting such an upgrade, don’t expect any help from us.” However, taking into account the timing of this statement, one should reasonably assume that we are being put on notice that LiteOn might frustrate such upgrades in the future, especially upgrades for which licensing fees have not been paid. To what extent remains to be seen. You have to “read between the lines” here.

the conversion of the 401S to 411S is different since people were trying to get dual format…in theory the only thing changing with 451S to 851S is speed like the cdrw…

I maybe wrong of course as I know little about the technical aspect of these drives…but I would still bet from production cost standpoint makes no sense the 4x drive is different hardware wise…too many add’l costs for a less expensive drive…

nealh:
I would still bet from production cost standpoint makes no sense the 4x drive is different hardware wise…too many add’l costs for a less expensive drive…
I agree with you here for the most part. However, some components may only be certified for 4X and may or may not work at 8X. Thus we are in a similar situation to overclocking a CPU. It may or may not work. It may work with shortened life, or write inferior disc, etc, just not work properly. LiteOn has to look at this from a marketing prospective. If enough people do this then it reduces the value of the genuine 8X drive. The idea here on this forum is to balance two conflicting goals: openly share ideas and information and to stay “below the radar.”

I agree with you. However, my understanding was the cdrw were the same drives(hardware wise except for firmware…correct if I am wrong…which is often…LOL)

The average consumer has no idea what firmware is and would never even flash the drive…that is why good initial firmware is so important…needs to work perfect out of the box.

We are a very tiny part of Liteon sales…we are a vocal group but peanuts to them…so worrying about decreasing the value of the 8x drive is small…

I really would have my doubts the 4x drive is going to different from the 8x drive…since they make the drives it would not be cost effective…now if they rebadge sure the drives will be different…Unlike TDK for example they actually produce the drive…TDK buys it from a “Liteon” and then rebadges the drive so a 32x cdrw maybe a Liteon…a 40x cdrw maybe a Philips…though for TDK same thing could apply get all the drives from one company that just changes firmware and my purchase price of a “line of drives” could be less than from different companies

Anyone I maybe way off the mark…who knows

I wish I could easily get a 451S and gives a whirl

the 451s is in all the best buys in the central florida area, I would think the store in Melbourne would have it as well…

@nealh
I don’t think that I could even recommend this drive as it comes “out of the box,” by this I really mean the 411S, for DVD-R(W) writing. LiteOn really missed the boat on that ever important initial firmware writing strategy for the 411S. That’s why I think that more average consumers are going to have to learn to upgrade their firmware, or have someone else do it for them. Hopefully this is fixed on the 451S. The 851S is going to inevitably need firmware upgrades due to the lack of 8X media at present. Even if they accomplished a good basic writing strategy and I don’t know about that yet, it will still need some fine tuning.

I think the basic drive is the same, it’s just those critical optical components that I can only speculate about. The media may also play a more important role that it did with CD’s as the development time of the DVD recorder seems to me to be on a much faster pace than that of the CD recorder.

As to the 451S -> 851S there are always a few who will be the first to “charge the fort.” We know what usually happens to them, in this case their recorders.

I wish I had an 851S to play around with too. I wonder if anyone knows the answers to my questions in my first post in this thread. In particular, is the OPC data for the 8X even present in the 451S? It’s easier if it’s already there than to generate it by trial and error, unless of course there is little variance between the individual 851Ss. Any vendor specific commands changed, deleted, added?

pcguy…I moved I now live near tampa and CC supposedly has the drive for $70 AR…I will go by at some point and see if this is the case…

Given that we can revive the drives in the passed with a bad fw I will probably give it a go if the price is $70 but will not wasted much more…I had a liteon 241040 die recently and need a new burner

The 411S was not a great drive from all reports but the avg consumer will return it or live with it…they would not even know to upgrade the fw…

But one never knows with the 451S…

That’s a 411S that Circuit City has for $70 after rebate. Unfortunately 411S is specified on the rebate forms too, each of them.

In the case of most consumer products, if their is a problem, at some point the user calls the tech support line, which does know about firmware etc… and would guide the consumer on what to do. That has always been my experience. Liteon is doing good by trying to keep their products up to date.

Out of all the optical storage products I have purchased over the years, some of the best have been liteon products. or manufactured by liteon for other companies such as compaq and dell.

I think Liteon products have been good…though my Liteon 2410 died after 2.5 yrs and with minimal burns…the drive light just stays on…can not open…

No big deal

As for CC the reports are that if you check the box and look at serial number they are putting in 451S in some if not all now of the drives on sale and advertised with rebate…this is what has been reported at anandtech.com