I Have Sony Dru-510 4x
Yes. If the media is supported with your current firmware.
Though I don’t use it much anymore, my NEC 1300a burns Taiyo Yuden 8x very well at 4x.
and at 1x it will burn?
1x is far too slow for most media, I don’t know about your drive but my writer can’t do 1x on anything, it just isn’t that practical.
2.4x for +R
1x for -R
Should be possible with supported 8x media.
There is no writing strategy for 1x for those +r media. I would not recommend 1x at all, back then with 1x you had more chances of getting problems in the adjascent sectors.
Big duplication houses use as a standard, 4x for DVD VIDEO and a maximum of 8x for audio CD… I would not use more than 8x for audio CD or 4x for a DVD video. If their inteded use are for PC, then you could burn them at their maximum rated speed no problem… Some people get away with burning their stuff at the highest rated speed and have no problems on their set top players too.
I would not recommend 2.4 either. stick to 4x, you should have no problem. My Taiyo Yudens 8x burn great at 4x
I’d be interested to know where that bit of information originated. “Big duplication houses” press CDs/DVDs, not burn them. And speed has nothing to do with standalone compatibility.
I’m talking about duplication places - we have some here, they do pressed DVDs/CDs (big budget) and they also do mass duplication, on Taiyo Yuden CD-R for audio and Taiyo Yuden DVD-R for DVDs and according to the person who works there, it is highly recommended not to exceed 8x for audio and 4x for DVD-VIDEO.
Personally I have experimented with this myself… Video DVD I burn at 6 or 8x play fine on my PC but tend sometimes to freeze/resume on my DVD player. Video will pause slightly a fraction of a second, sometimes 1 second and resume…Even on top quality Taiyo Yuden media…whereas ALL media I burnt at 4x, whether Taiyo, Ritek or whatever, never skipped or freeze the whole way. Tested on different DVD players including SONY DVP, APEX AD1200, Pioneer and JVC. Also read somewhere that discs burned at 4x tend to last longer than those burnt at 8x… I’m also curious to know if the talked about deterioration of the RITEk discs were burnt at 4x or 8x.
Be aware that some -R 8X media will burn at 4X with a lower quality burn. A lot of +R media will do better at 4X than at 8X. It really depends on the burner and the media. If you want to know more specifically you might identify the burner and media. This will be much more useful.
This “information” dates back from the time of the first 8X burners and as many web pages don’t ever get updated, it keeps on being misleading for many that come across it.
Actually it hasn’t ever been proven, and only relies on the observation that PIE/PIF errors increase over time. At that time, 8X burning gave more errors than 4X burning, so simple logic leaded to expect better longevity for 4X burns.
Time runs very fast in this industry. Things change rapidly and so “receipes” get obsolete just as fast. The problem is that they die hard.
Nowadays many media give actually better results when burnt at their rated speed. There is no absolute rule, testing the discs is the only way to tell what ones should choose as aburning speed with media X on burner Y.
You mention TY discs that stutter in your standalone recorder when burnt @8X… none of my burns has any redability problems in my own standalone recorders, and I generally burn all my discs at their max rated speed as long as this gives good quality scans. Even my TYG02 burnt @16X in a 3540A don’t stutter at all…
So I’d say it’s your burner that has a so-so strategy/laser power for TYG02 @8X. I have a similar problem with my Pioneer 109 with MCC 02RG20, which give problematic burns @8X. My 4550A, on the contrary, burns them better @8X than @4X…
As Chas0039 states: “It really depends on the burner and the media”
When I had my Sony 510 - it burned Taiyo Yuden 8x +R T02’s just great with low errors and consistantly good burns - and did not do so well with the Taiyo Yuden 8x -R TYG02’s-
Just make sure you have the latest firmware - use the 8x +R T02’s and you should be ok IMO-
When I had my Sony 510 - it burned Taiyo Yuden 8x +R T02’s and Verbatim 8x +R MCC 003’s just great with low errors and consistantly good burns - and did not do so well with the Taiyo Yuden 8x -R TYG02’s-
Just make sure you have the latest firmware - use the 8x +R T02’s and you should be ok IMO-
When I say they stutter, it doesn’t do it constantly…It will usually do it before the middle, usually the in the 1/3… it will slightly pause, sometimes a fraction of a second and resume. It will also do it maybe 2 or 3 more times towards the midle and end, of a full disc. Could this be recalibration points/speed change spots ? Mind you my KPROBE looks perfect. You’ve seen my scans in my other thread… I’m using the 1633 @ 1653 and the kprobes I get are nothing short of outstanding ! My PIEs NEVER exceed 6, very very low totals. and very low PIF counts and totals.
Maybe on your dvd player it works - on most it will not stutter I guess it depends on how FUSSY your player is.
I can garantee that if you played your 8x media on the APEX AD1200 it will at some point do this.
I guess it seems some players have a bigger buffer and are more tolerant.
I think it’s an interesting theory because I’ve seen many scans where thin single spikes occur exactly at writing speed changes and/or calibration points.
And I remember this disc I once had, with a single PIF peak of 34 (@1ECC) reported only once out of 3 scans. The reading curve was affected and the playback too. But it didn’t appear on all scans…
I don’t know Kprobe very well but I think I remember some versions can supress single spikes considered as “irrelevant”. If this is the case with your version, it would be interesting to disallow this feature (if it actually exists) to look for any high single spikes in the areas where you notice slight “pauses”…?
Ok, my 8x discs that pause, have EXCELLENT kprobes and no spikes at all… All PIFs are max of 2…throughout the whole disc most PIFs are value of 1, only 3 or 4 are 2… The totals are also excellent, on Taiyo, on a full disc would get sometimes < 40 total PIFs compared to some RITEKs where I had 1700 totals, with 2max, but would not skip
I’m thinking maybe the media burnt at 8x will work just fine on a PC, but the burnt area “looks” different to the laser and cause some player to have “difficulty” focusing or reading that area… After all 8x media is based on a more sensitive dye that does require as much laser exposure, therefore burns faster, but I would be curious to
compare both discs under a super microscope to see what 4x and 8x media looks like, burnt.
Could it be a jitter issue ? Since I am not able to detect this with kprobe or cdspeed because of the LITEON does not detect it… There are also other factors than PIE/PIF/Jitter that kprobe and cdspeed do not measure…
Maybe I should ask Digital Dolphin what’s his view on this ?
I had got that part, you know
I was asking about the possibility that your Kprobe version maybe actually HIDES single spikes… have you checked that?
Or can someone else who know Kprobe pretty well confirm/infirm the fact that some versions can hide single spikes? I’m almost sure I’ve read something about this some time ago.
uninterresting first part
Some versions of K-probe can hide the single spikes.
Jitter and assymetry can cause stuttering.
Remember the errors you see in K-probe are the errors as your Lite On drive sees them.
These errors can be caused be caused by problems with drive(signal processing) and disc (jitter assymetry for example) and the reading proces. (Dust passing throught the beam)
Now assymetry and Jitter is something that is on the disc. For simplying I would call them absolute.
Now Lite On is known for makeing better as average readers. I would put them in the categorie very good readers. Some people would say to good readers when it comes to testing and generalising the performance. It is very good possible that your lite On doesn’t has problems with the levels of assymetry and jitter on a disc why your normal dvd player has problems with them which cause the stuttering.
And now here it comes. In most cases lower speed means lower jitter and assymetry. (*Assumeing the current generations of dye and with a speed range of 4x-16x. Offcourse there are exceptions but I say in most cases not in all)
Thanks for the great explanations Dakhaas
I assume you wanted to write “too good readers”.
I’m among these… I prefer to test for PIE/PIF with a lesser reader (Nec 3540A) and at higher speeds (@12X). I feel like getting more “real-world” indications of what could go wrong. But that’s only a feeling of course, not a certitude
As for jitter I still couldn’t find a Benq 1640 here to replace my dead 1620 - incredible, but Benq is not well-distributed in Belgium.
YEs I should have said Too.
Yes but the NEC and CD speed have a combination of not reporting errors like they should do. Pi-8 of 1700 ?
You should be able to get a Plextor PX-740 and flash it to benq. It would mean looseing waranty but you gain better support and the cool features. Like the testing options and SOLID BURN.
And about Belgium shops haveing the Benq 1640 if you still want to have waranty Loveno (www.overclocking.be) in leuven has it. (The OEM version that is.)
Yeah, I’ve seen 4000+ PIE Nec scans!! .
I’m well aware of this issue (remember, I mentioned it in the “longevity” topic ;)), and I fully take it into account when scanning. I don’t take the PIE numbers reported by Nec drives too seriously (I consider more the figures, and mainly for comparison purposes) and focus more on PIFs to estimate burning quality.
Actually I’ve tried to discuss this point with other NEC owners but they seem to want to dismiss the issue. I’ve even been harshly assaulted by a member because I said that ECMA standards (< 280 PIE) couldn’t be applied to NEC scans…
I was about to do that recently but finally I didn’t.
Thanks for the link, I’ll check it
Sorry mates for being a little off-topic… :o