C1/c2 tests



Hi people,
OK, I have 2 px 716a’s. On the drive 0203, c1=0.8. On drive 0304 c1=1.0. c2=0 on both drives. Is this a good thing? :confused:
I bought Verbatim cd-r 1x-52 at circuit city. Maid in Tiwan. Feedback please!!


Did you use Plextools Pro, and if so, on what drive, and at what speed did you scan the CD-Rs? You need to post scans–we also don’t know how much data (or audio) you burned on the discs. I have some bad news for you–the Verbatim CD-Rs sold at Circuit City (50-pack spindle) are rebadged CMC–CMC is notorious for producing not so good optical media. In other words, CMC media doesn’t have a good reputation. What is odd is that you are getting very good results with it on two different drives. The good Verbatim CD-Rs say DataLifePlus and Super AZO on the packaging and are Mitsubishi Chemical Corp (MCC) media. Verbatim is actually a subsidiary of Mitsubishi Chemical Corp–the irony is that they rebadge CMC media and sell it as their “cheap grade” of CD-R media. This cheap grade of CD-R media used to be called ValuLife (here in the USA)–but Verbatim dropped that name some time ago. By dropping the name ValuLife, Verbatim misleads more people into buying their cheap grade of media–people who think it is the Mitsubishi media. Stick with the Verbatim DataLifePlus Super AZO CD-Rs–they are much better. Verbatim also used to have lower grade DataLife media, but I don’t think that was sold in the USA. Verbatim has other media they sell outside of the USA as well, but I’m only referring to the media they sell in the United States.


tlotz…you’re not entirely correct about Verbatim media.

CMC actually produces MOST of Verbatim’s media using MCC dyes. Prodisc also produces Verbatim media.

the Verbatim 52X CD-Rs use MCC dye and burn just fine for me.

Vcas, please post scans as tlotz mentioned. the difference you state is within a statistical margin of error and could mean absolutely nothing.


With the retail 52x Verbatim CD-R spindles, you have to look at the serial numbers printed around the outer hub of the disc to differentiate the discs that carry the CMC ATIP from the MCC ATIP. The MCC discs will have some number ending in the word “AZO”.


you and your hubs and serial numbers :stuck_out_tongue: :bigsmile:

listen to Two Degrees…he knows what he’s talking about when it comes to Verbatim media.


Drpino, you’re missing the point of what I said. I have examined the MID code on that media, and it is CMC CD-R media. Until recently, I thought that that media was Mitsubishi media too. Yes, I know that Verbatim/MCC AZO media that is Made in Taiwan is made by CMC. But I didn’t say that. Look at what I said. I said that Verbatim CD-R media bought from Circuit City is CMC media! That means it was made by CMC using CMC technology, not Mitsubishi technology. Hence the CMC MID that I know is on that media, because I examined it. MCC AZO (Super AZO, Advanced AZO, Metal AZO) that is made in Taiwan is Mitsubishi media made by CMC to Mitsubishi standards using their AZO dye. MCC AZO media is very different from CMC media, regardless of who actually makes it! Lets look at some pictures from Verbatim.com. The first picture is a 50-pack spindle of Verbatim DataLifePlus Super AZO CD-R media. This media is MCC AZO media made by CMC (if its made in Taiwan) or Mitsubishi if its made in Singapore, or a few other companies for Mitsubishi (I don’t remember the full list). But it is the high quality Mitsubishi media! The second picture is the rebadged CMC media that VCas bought. It is nothing more than rebadged CMC media, it is not Mitsubishi AZO media. To add some common sense to this post: if all Verbatim CD-R media was MCC AZO and made by CMC, would Verbatim bother to sell two entirely different products with noticably different packaging? Heck no! The bottom picture is the junk media (CMC made media, CMC technology), and the top picture is the good DataLifePlus AZO Mitsubishi media (sometimes made by CMC, but always made to Mitsubishi standards). Keep in mind also that AZO is a Mitsubishi dye, and if its AZO, it must be Mitsubishi media, regardless of who mades it for Mitsubishi (i.e. CMC).


I would also like to say that the Verbatim MCC 52X CD-Rs I bought were Made in Mexico–these CD-Rs were not made by CMC! I forget who makes the Mexican MCC media for Mitsubishi. Remember all CMC made media is made in Taiwan. Also note like I said that all Verbatim CD-Rs (in the U.S.A anyway, excluding their Digital Vinyl CD-Rs) must say DataLifePlus and Super AZO on the packaging to be MCC AZO media–and this media can be made by CMC, and many other companies depending on where it was made. The only made I’m a little unclear about is Verbatim’s Digital Vinyl CD-Rs–I don’t know as much about them–I think they are all MCC AZO media, but I am not entirely sure. One other thing: I just found out recently that all Verbatim DVD+R/-R media sold in the U.S.A. is MCC AZO media (regardless of who makes it, i.e. CMC). The Verbatim DVD+R/-R media’s packaging doesn’t have to say Super AZO (Advanced AZO, etc) or DataLifePlus to be MCC AZO media. In fact, as many have found out, Verbatim is phasing out the DataLifePlus name on the DVD media (not their CD-R media) to emphasize the Verbatim name, since Verbatim only markets one grade of DVD media (MCC AZO). Again this media is made by CMC, Mitsubishi, and other companies for Mitsubishi, but all the DVD-R/+R media sold in the U.S.A. is the Mitsubishi media, regardless of who actually makes it.


dude, relax. i know what you said as i’m comfortable with my reading comprehension. i have 2 spindles of the CD-Rs shown in the second attachment and both come up having Verbatim/MCC MIDs as shown below. they also list cyanine, AZO as the recording layer. they’re labeled as MIT. care to explain this with your obviously expert knowledge of the matter?

regardless of what the dye, producer, MID, brand, labeling, packaging, etc. is…chill the fuck out…as i’ve done nothing but try and help you with your issues.


To avoid confusion: Circuit City sells the Verbatim rebadged CMC CD-Rs in both 50 and 100-pack spindles–I used the 50-pack spindle pictures to show the difference in Verbatim labeling between the good MCC AZO media (first picture) and the rebadged CMC media (second picture). The same difference in product labeling that I showed above also applies to the 100-pack Verbatim CD-R spindles (also sold at Circuit City like I said) and the Verbatim jewel case CD-R media sold here in the U.S.A. Since Circuit City doesn’t sell the jewel cases Verbatim CD-Rs, Vcas either bought the 50 or 100-pack spindle of the Verbatim rebadged CMC media.


Drpino: I am sorry if I offended you, as I did come across a bit too strong. But, we were both wrong. You have purchased and used media sold under the second packaging above (retail packaging) and found it to be MCC, and I have tested media sold in the same second packaging above and found it to be CMC (by checking the MID code just like you did). I can admit that I was actually wrong, but you were also wrong. Verbatim CD-R media sold with the packaging from the first image must be Mitsubishi because it says Super AZO, and AZO is Mitsubishi dye. From what I can tell after reading your last post, apparently, Verbatim uses both MCC and CMC media when manufacturing the retail spindles pictured in the second picture above. So, Two Degrees was 100% correct, and we were both wrong. I now understand why (thank you Two Degrees) there are two different packagings. The packaging in the first image is non-retail–not sold at retail stores (I bought mine online–my jewel cased media matches the first image above). Because of the clear labeling (Super AZO logo very obvious) of this non-retail packaging, it is obvious that all media sold in the non-retail packaging must be MCC media. The second packaging is the retail packaging–media sold in the packaging could be either MCC or CMC, depending on the individual spindle (or package of jewel cases). It is totally ridiculous that Verbatim does this. If you buy Verbatim CD-Rs in the retail packaging (second image), then you have no way of knowing whether you’re going to get MCC or CMC media, until after you have opened the package! At that time, you can look at the inner hub of the discs or MID code and determine whether it is MCC or CMC. Consequently, it only makes sense to buy the Verbatim CD-Rs with the non-retail packaging in the first image that clearly states “DataLifePlus” and “Super AZO”. That way your guaranteed to get MCC media, since CMC media doesn’t use AZO technology. Again, sorry Drpino, if I came across in an offensive way. That was not my intension. We both learned something here–Two Degrees is correct! In other words, Verbatim CD-R media sold in the retail packaging (second image above) could be either MCC or CMC. Once again, Verbatim has fooled us. Again, what Verbatim did with the packaging is totally ridiculous, and that is why it fooled both of us.


no problem…however i wasn’t wrong as i never stated that it’s always MCC but that “CMC produces MOST of Verbatim’s media using MCC dyes” …but i WAS definitive in saying the 52X CD-Rs were MCC when i SHOULD HAVE SAID the ones that i’ve purchased have been MCC.

as i stated above, Two Degrees knows what he’s talking about and i’ve always deferred to his knowledge over mine.

no hard feelings tlotz :bigsmile:


Drpino, again, I’m sorry I came across the way I did. But, you shouldn’t infer that someone else is wrong unless you know what you are talking about. When you said the above, you inferred that I didn’t know what I was talking about. It turns out, you didn’t know any better than I did. Just like I was wrong to assume that all retail packaged Verbatim CD-R media had to be CMC because the spindles I came across were CMC spindles, you were wrong to say "the Verbatim 52X CD-Rs use MCC dye " because sometimes some of the retail packaged Verbatim CD-R media is true CMC media which doesn’t use MCC dye. It seemed you were talking down to me, so I came across the same way to you. It turns out we were both wrong.


Agreed–I should thought a bit more about what I said, as I do know a lot about Verbatim media, more than most people who read the posts in these forums, but I still had something to learn. I recently also learned that all the U.S.A sold Verbatim DVDR media is MCC AZO, and I got that info from an official Verbatim email response. Live and learn! Like I said above, the way you stated your claim was misleading, it sounded like you were saying that all Verbatim 52X CD-Rs are MCC, which is clearly wrong. Sorry again for my attitude. I wonder if we have thoroughly confused Vcas? His results sound like results of MCC media. Vcas, are your Verbatim CD-Rs MCC or CMC? Check the MID in Plextools and let us know.


sorry you feel i was inferring that you didn’t know what you were talking about …my comment about listening to Two Degrees wasn’t specifically directed at you… it was more an extension of my “you and your hubs and serial numbers” playful remark at Two Degrees. i apologize if you feel i was talking down to you but that was not my intention at all…i was simply trying to introduce additional information.

perhaps the definitive/adamant/confident manner in which you provided your explanations of the origins/dye types of verbatim media exacerbated an already existing miscommunication but all in all i really don’t think this conversation needs to continue as we’ve hijacked Vcas’ thread enough already. let’s leave it be.

edit: just saw your post above. again, no hard feeling tlotz…let’s put our heads together/combined knowledge to better use than a futile internet pissing contest and help Vcas’ out. your requests for scans and MIDs is right on track :smiley:

BTW, in light of our discussion about MCC versus CMC for the Verb 52X CD-R spindles…i noticed in Circuit City, there were two different kinds of spacers…one plastic, the other foam. i went with the plastic. maybe the foam was CMC ATIP. what kind of spacers did your spindle have? could be an easy way to tell the difference without opening the package/checking the MID.


drpino: out of curiousity, where did you get your MCC Verbatim CD-R retail media? Best Buy, Circuit City, or elsewhere? Best Buy, Circuit City, and Microcenter are the only retail stores that carry this media in the U.S.A, as far as I know. Just curious–I know that it’s impossible to know what you’re getting (MCC or CMC) when you buy that Verbatim retail CD-R media, but it is still interesting to know who is selling the MCC Verbatim retail CD-R spindles.


Just read your above message–so you bought your media from Circuit City. I would love to know if there is a way to tell the MCC and CMC spindles of this media apart. Remember I said I “tested” this media. The media I tested was a 50-pack of the Verbatim retail CD-R media that was purchased from Circuit City by a co-worker where I work. The spindle was already opened, and used, so I don’t know specific details about the foam (the foam was already gone). I just examined the MID code on it and found that it was CMC media. Boy was I shocked!


i’ve bought 2 50pk spindles…one at BB and one at CC.


Average C1 scores of 1.0 or 0.8 are both good. Nothing to worry about.


Hi people,
Well I haven’t read all the discussion in this thread as I just got home, but the Verbatim dvd-r’s I bought a BB are mcco3r320 up to 16x and the cd-r’s are 1x-52x mcc type 3 from CCity.
Both maid in Taiwan. Neither say data life plus. How do I post the results as a pic. U know,…the plex pro scans. From what I’ve read, this thread has been very helpfull. Shower time!!
Thanks people!!


Take a look at these scans! The disc is a Fujifilm 40x (Ty) data disc recorded multisession about 2-3 years ago on my Teac 540E. I recently bought a Premium-U and have been trying out PlexTools and doing scans of some of my discs.
But this is strange - - PlexTools reports errors like crazy for this disc while Nero CD/DVD Speed reports absolutely nothing!?! I used the default scanning speeds for both programs (10-24 CAV for PlexTools and “maximum” for Nero).


you can right click on the scan when it’s done and save the result (will be an HTML and make sure to chose .PNG as the image file type and not .BMP). now you can either screenshot and crop the HTML file or cut and paste the numerical results and just attach the .PNG file.