C1/C2 Errors

I’ve been reading the forums and have seen alot of talk about KProbe, and C1/C2 errors, and I noticed the new Nero now tests for C2 errors (the C1 test doesn’t seem to be enabled).

I’ve always used Nero’s CD Speed to check my discs after a backup, and normally use Fuji 48x media, (TY).

My drives are a LiteOn LTR-40125S with VZSOR firmware, and a DVD reader also from LiteOn LTD-163D with VGHR6 firmware, although with the DVD drive it doesn’t seem to be supported anymore on LiteOn’s website.

I’ve never had any problem burning, I use Nero, and it has always passed any Nero CD Speed tests, although I’m new to this C1/C2 business. My discs have always been readable.

I install KProbe recently, and while testing with the 40125S using older discs, and recent burns, I always get continuous C1 errors and sometimes a few C2 errors on ALL cd’s I test using this drive. I’m talking 100’s of thousands of C1 errors! This confused me quite a bit, so I decided to test using my DVD reader, and I hardly get any C1 errors using that, let alone C2’s. Maybe 10 C1’s at most, from what I can gather, a normal result of a good burn.

So why does my 40125S show so many errors in this test? After all, it IS the burner I use, you would think it would have no problems. It reads the CD’s fine, and according the the test results on my DVD player, writes fine as well.

Any thoughts?

Thanks…!

lol im still lost to kprobe i think its a odd test

read the stickies in the media forum. scans from different drives can’t be compared to one another.

DVDROM drives do not report errors correctly, if at all.
The 40x drives are not noted for low error counts when burning at max speeds, but with good media, burning at 32x, you should not see any C2, and C1 should be under 100 max (peak). A few C2 isn’t so bad, but none is better.

Originally posted by rdgrimes
DVDROM drives do not report errors correctly, if at all.
The 40x drives are not noted for low error counts when burning at max speeds, but with good media, burning at 32x, you should not see any C2, and C1 should be under 100 max (peak). A few C2 isn’t so bad, but none is better.

I had noticed this when burning at 40x in the past, using the old Nero test. Ever since then I used 32x for burning, and haven’t had any problems. Now I know why! :slight_smile:

Until I found KProbe that is. Which is unrelated to the 40x vs. 32x issue for this drive, since I haven’t burned 40x for awhile now.

Ok, so DVDROM is not going to work for testing, I’ll remember that. Thank you for letting me know that.

However, I tested with my burner and as I mention, I had lot’s and lot’s of C1 errors, and some C2 with KProbe. I tested with old media, say stuff years back burned with my old 4x burner, some media burned with another persons burner, newer stuff I’ve done, different brands of media…and here is why I’m perplexed. Actually better if I try and give you guys a few screenshots to go by.

First here is a new burn, done at 32x with my LiteOn, using Fuji 48x media.

2nd Image, an older CD not burned my myself, no visible fingerprints or marks though, tested really bad, but it’s readable, could be the exception. JIT media. Lot’s of C2’s.

3rd was burned with my LiteOn like the first image, but it’s on Maxell instead of Fuji, unknown speed, about a year ago. I never burn above the rated speeds of the media BTW, and never above 32x with this drive. It shows just like the first, thousands of C1 errors, no C2’s, or very few.

Here is another burned CD not done by myself, using Maxell media, about 3 years ago…

Lastly, one done a few years ago on a different burner at 4x using Memorex media, burned by myself on another computer altogether.

So, with the exception of Image #2 (obviously a bad disc although I can read it), every other test done using my LiteOn turns out with so many C1 errors! This is considering at least 3 different burners were used to make these discs, different times, and different media.

Can I trust this drive for testing???

Thanks again for putting up with me… :cool:

Perhaps its just cheap and nasty Lite-Ons drives that mostly seem to offer low-level error reporting that are the problem :slight_smile:

I trust CDSpeed using plextor drives to give me a good indication of the state of a CD - all green with no slow down is good enough for me.

All this horrible error reporting when cd’s play perfectly in many other drives - throw the Lite-on away :slight_smile:

Originally posted by icey
[B]Perhaps its just cheap and nasty Lite-Ons drives that mostly seem to offer low-level error reporting that are the problem :slight_smile:

I trust CDSpeed using plextor drives to give me a good indication of the state of a CD - all green with no slow down is good enough for me.

All this horrible error reporting when cd’s play perfectly in many other drives - throw the Lite-on away :slight_smile: [/B]

uh, right…

all discs have C1 errors, whether they can “play perfectly” or not, so whether or not the disc is readable has nothing to do with the “horrible error reporting.” “all green with no slow down” simply means the drive doesn’t report any C2 errors, regardless of the level of C1 errors.

Originally posted by icey
[B]Perhaps its just cheap and nasty Lite-Ons drives that mostly seem to offer low-level error reporting that are the problem :slight_smile:

I trust CDSpeed using plextor drives to give me a good indication of the state of a CD - all green with no slow down is good enough for me.

All this horrible error reporting when cd’s play perfectly in many other drives - throw the Lite-on away :slight_smile: [/B]

Ignorance is bliss :stuck_out_tongue:

Alright time to test using another CD/RW, unfortunately the only one I have is on my 2nd computer and it’s a 4x Mitsumi. So it will take awhile. Mainly…what I want to find out is if my LiteOn is making good burns, if it has horrible error reporting that is fine, and it seems to be the case now since I did tests using media burned on other CD/RW’s and it was all bad C1’s across the board. So hopefully this will rule it out…

I still like LiteOn drives though, what’s not to like when they are 3x cheaper than Plextor’s, and have been very good to me up to now, maybe I should have never picked up KProbe… :slight_smile:

My next I’ll be looking at getting a combo 16x DVD with 52x32x52 CD-RW (the new LiteOn), and some sort of DVD burner although I’m not convinced LiteOn is the best here for that. Maybe Pioneer.

edit Well that didn’t last long, KProbe obviously only supports a limited amount of drives. Didn’t work with my old Mitsumi. Well, I’m out of luck then.

[BLiT45]

Based on what you’ve posted, I have to say that your 40x is not doing a very good job of reading OR writing. But the only scans that are relevant are scans of discs burned in the same drive with the same firmware. The 40x is an “old” drive by today’s standards. A good cleaning of the laser might be in order, but jeeez, you can get a new 52327S this week at BestBuy for under $30.
There’s no such thing as “bad” error reporting in this situation, if an error is reported, it occured. “Bad” error reporting generally means that errors are not being reported. The 40x series does often show higher error rates, but because it is not as good a drive as current models.

rdgrimes…

Thanks for your reply. I think your right about getting another CDRW, they are not that expensive so why take the chance?

Actually I am leaning towards getting the LiteOn LDW-401S 4X DVD+R/ 4X DVD+RW / 40X CD-R / 24X CD-RW, and I’ve found it for under $150 Can online. That way I’ll have DVD writing, and CDR all in one drive, while I would keep my 16x DVD ROM from LiteON as a reader mainly, helps that it can do 48x reading of CD’s.

This would be an upgrade to my CDRW that I have now, plus of course DVD authoring.

Then take that 40125S that is giving me this problem, and put it in the 2nd system. You mention cleaning the laser, since I’d like to be able to trust this drive, my wife would be using it in the other system mainly for music though, should I try and clean it somehow?

Thanks again.

edit Actually I change my mind about getting a DVD burner, without dual layer support for burning (another issue altogether), the main use for one of these (making exact duplicates of DVD movies) is out. Then there is other no use for burning a DVD other than additional capacity. Bleh!

I’m going with the LITEON 52X32X52 burner instead.

I’m going with the LITEON 52X32X52 burner instead

you won’t regret it, with the newest firmware, it’s awesome.

Thanks for your help again rdgrimes, and I did pick one up today! :wink:

Can’t wait to run those KProbe tests on the new burner… :eek:

So any special speeds that work best with this one? I have mostly 48x media anyways, seems to be the fastest out there right now. I’m just wondering about a situation like my old burner where you said to use 32x instead of 40x, and that was something I had noticed as well.

They get any faster than 52x the discs are gonna start flying apart! :slight_smile:

Depends on what media you have, some burns great at 52x, but not all. Your drive may limit some to 48x, scan them to see what speed gives the lowest errors, probably 40x, but with the 7S sometimes it’s the same at any speed.

I’m not picky about getting 52x or even 48x speeds for that matter. I was actually happy with 32x with my 40x burner. Why? Because it’s only a matter of a few saved seconds from 32x speed to burning at 40x, then I can imagine the situation is similar with 48x and 52x.

Theoretically, say 4x takes 20min, then 8x would take 10min for a burn, 16x 5min, 32x 2.5min (actually more like 3.5), then 48x might be what, 2.5min? Wow a whole minute. :slight_smile: Diminishing returns in other words.

No, I didn’t buy this drive for the speed, mainly for a better quality burn, and to be able to test better. I’m also going to retest all those CD’s I did yesterday and post some results, although I’ll not post pics…(what a pain that was). I know what you said about my old 40x not being possible to misread all those C1 errors, but I hope your wrong, I have 100’s that could be burned that way, I wonder if my drive was faulty in some way perhaps all along.