Burning DVD speed exceeding the DVD stated supported speed

[SCC]

Hi. I'm a user of Samsung SH-S223F burner. It supports up to 22X of DVD burning speed. I've some prob that I'd like to ask for u guys' help.

When I burn DVD with Nero 8, it shows that the DVD can supports up to 20X burning speed with a 16X Mitsubishi DVD+R. I've been burning the DVDs with 20X. As result, 2 of my DVD has corrupted & I'm wondering is it bcoz of this.

So, would the data being affected by burning with speed exceeding the stated speed of the DVD?

Btw, my CD sleeves used to store these DVD will stick onto the DVD when I place them in it, like there're water on the surface of the DVD (there's no water actually). Would there be any prob with such CD sleeves?

Really hope that u guys can help me out. Ur help is greatly appreciated. Thx. ^^

[SCC]

Hi. I’m a user of Samsung SH-S223F burner. It supports up to 22X of DVD burning speed. I’ve some prob that I’d like to ask for u guys’ help.

When I burn DVD with Nero 8, it shows that the DVD can supports up to 20X burning speed with a 16X Mitsubishi DVD+R. I’ve been burning the DVDs with 20X. As result, 2 of my DVD has corrupted & I’m wondering is it bcoz of this.

So, would the data being affected by burning with speed exceeding the stated speed of the DVD?

Btw, my CD sleeves used to store these DVD will stick onto the DVD when I place them in it, like there’re water on the surface of the DVD (there’s no water actually). Would there be any prob with such CD sleeves?

Really hope that u guys can help me out. Ur help is greatly appreciated. Thx. ^^

[troy512]

burning at the maximum speeds is most likely the cause of your dvd corrupted. in general most recommend burning at 8x or 12x. there are a lot of variables involved but those seem to be the safest speeds in general.

i would not recommend using cd sleeves to store any media you want to keep. for short term storage, its probably ok.

just as you have observed, the write area of the dvd has physical damage when using cd sleeves.

[geno888]

Usually is better to burn a disc at the certified speed, or slightly lower (for example 16x discs at 12x). Some excellent quality discs like Taiyo Yuden, however, can be burned also at higher speed with excellent results and no data loss. I remember people posting in the forum scans of 8x certified discs burned at 16x with excellent results.

However, there is only a way to see if your batch of media is able to sustain a so high burning speed: try some discs and see results. Bear in mind that a different batch of discs of the same brand can give problems if burned at 20x even if your current media can be burned with no problems, so for each new box of discs you use, to be sure that discs can be burned at more than 16x you must run again some tests.

Moreover, I suggest to use jewel boxes to store media. I really don’t trust in sleeves, that can easily scratch and warp the discs

[troy512]

http://club.cdfreaks.com/f105/burning-dvd-speed-exceeding-dvd-stated-supported-speed-255367/#post2148981

[SCC]

[QUOTE=troy512;2148989]burning at the maximum speeds is most likely the cause of your dvd corrupted. in general most recommend burning at 8x or 12x. there are a lot of variables involved but those seem to be the safest speeds in general.

i would not recommend using cd sleeves to store any media you want to keep. for short term storage, its probably ok.

just as you have observed, the write area of the dvd has physical damage when using cd sleeves. :([/QUOTE]

Well, I’m not burning at maximum speed. I’m burning at a exceeded stated maximum speed of the DVD.

Wat kind of damage can CD sleeves cause? I guess it’s insignificant, right?

[SCC]

[QUOTE=geno888;2148993]Usually is better to burn a disc at the certified speed, or slightly lower (for example 16x discs at 12x). Some excellent quality discs like Taiyo Yuden, however, can be burned also at higher speed with excellent results and no data loss. I remember people posting in the forum scans of 8x certified discs burned at 16x with excellent results.

However, there is only a way to see if your batch of media is able to sustain a so high burning speed: try some discs and see results. Bear in mind that a different batch of discs of the same brand can give problems if burned at 20x even if your current media can be burned with no problems, so for each new box of discs you use, to be sure that discs can be burned at more than 16x you must run again some tests.

Moreover, I suggest to use jewel boxes to store media. I really don’t trust in sleeves, that can easily scratch and warp the discs :([/QUOTE]

Means burning with exceeding the maximum speed of the DVD?

The disadvantages of jewel cases are space consuming & relatively more expensive… Would the damage in CD sleeves significant? I suppose it won’t be as bad as warping the disc…

[troy512]

maximum speed is determined by your drives firmware. not by the listed speeds on the dvd media or the drive itself.

just stick with 8x or 12x and see the results. or keep burning at 20x because its not the maximum speed.

exactly what kind of sleeves are you using? seems you are already seeing the damage for yourself.

also could a moderator merge these threads?

[SCC]

[QUOTE=troy512;2149005]maximum speed is determined by your drives firmware. not by the listed speeds on the dvd media or the drive itself.

just stick with 8x or 12x and see the results. or keep burning at 20x because its not the maximum speed.

exactly what kind of sleeves are you using? seems you are already seeing the damage for yourself.

also could a moderator merge these threads?[/QUOTE]

Means that the DVD is safe to be burned at any shown available speed?

U mean 20X is not the maximum speed of the burner so it’s fine? Plz be noted that 20X is actually exceeded the stated maximum speed of the DVD.

Hmm… Juz soft plastic sleeves. I’m suspecting the source of the damage is caused by the CD sleeves, or the act of burning DVD by exceeding the maximum speed stated by the DVD.

[geno888]

Means that the DVD is safe to be burned at any shown available speed?

When developers write a firmware, they usually run some tests on the media, so if a firmware allow a disc to be burned at 20x, then developers was able to create a writing strategy that will not ruin discs.

But… too bad there is a rather wide variability in quality between various batch of media, so if you get a bad batch is better to not burn these discs at a so high speed, even if the firmware allow it.

As I said, the only way to see if is safe to burn a media at a speed higher than the certified speed is to try some discs and see results.

[QUOTE=SCC;2149013]
U mean 20X is not the maximum speed of the burner so it’s fine? Plz be noted that 20X is actually exceeded the stated maximum speed of the DVD.[/quote]
Don’t give too much importance to the maximum speed a drive can reach. Most of times, this is only advertisement crap

[QUOTE=SCC;2149013]Hmm… Juz soft plastic sleeves. I’m suspecting the source of the damage is caused by the CD sleeves, or the act of burning DVD by exceeding the maximum speed stated by the DVD.[/QUOTE]

The main defects of plastic sleeves are two: they can scratch discs and they can warp discs.

If the sleeves are made good, however, (i.e. not too tight and provided with a material that will not scratch discs when you insert/extract media from the sleeve) they are a reasonable alternative to jewel cases

[SCC]

[QUOTE=geno888;2149091]When developers write a firmware, they usually run some tests on the media, so if a firmware allow a disc to be burned at 20x, then developers was able to create a writing strategy that will not ruin discs.

But… too bad there is a rather wide variability in quality between various batch of media, so if you get a bad batch is better to not burn these discs at a so high speed, even if the firmware allow it.

As I said, the only way to see if is safe to burn a media at a speed higher than the certified speed is to try some discs and see results.

Don’t give too much importance to the maximum speed a drive can reach. Most of times, this is only advertisement crap :([/QUOTE]
Well, of coz. Juz that Troy512 sounded like burning at a drive’s maximum speed is not a good idea.

Besides, I already had 2 discs corrupted. Do u think it could be caused by burning the disc exceeding the stated maximum speed? Or by the sleeves? The sleeves seem to be sticking onto the discs like there’re water on it, which it doesn’t actually.

Btw, I’m using Mitsubishi DVD+R, which is a top graded discs inferior only to Taiyo Yuden. Do u think it can be burned at high speed?

& how do u see the results? Juz merely on whether it can be read? Or testing the burn quality?

[QUOTE=geno888;2149091]The main defects of plastic sleeves are two: they can scratch discs and they can warp discs.

If the sleeves are made good, however, (i.e. not too tight and provided with a material that will not scratch discs when you insert/extract media from the sleeve) they are a reasonable alternative to jewel cases :)[/QUOTE]
I see… Btw, I guess disc warping is external factor, right?

[SCC]

[QUOTE=geno888;2149091]When developers write a firmware, they usually run some tests on the media, so if a firmware allow a disc to be burned at 20x, then developers was able to create a writing strategy that will not ruin discs.

But… too bad there is a rather wide variability in quality between various batch of media, so if you get a bad batch is better to not burn these discs at a so high speed, even if the firmware allow it.

As I said, the only way to see if is safe to burn a media at a speed higher than the certified speed is to try some discs and see results.

Don’t give too much importance to the maximum speed a drive can reach. Most of times, this is only advertisement crap :([/QUOTE]
Well, of coz. Juz that Troy512 sounded like burning at a drive’s maximum speed is not a good idea.

Besides, I already had 2 discs corrupted. Do u think it could be caused by burning the disc exceeding the stated maximum speed? Or by the sleeves? The sleeves seem to be sticking onto the discs like there’re water on it, which it doesn’t actually.

Btw, I’m using Mitsubishi DVD+R, which is a top graded discs inferior only to Taiyo Yuden. Do u think it can be burned at high speed?

& how do u see the results? Juz merely on whether it can be read? Or testing the burn quality?

[QUOTE=geno888;2149091]The main defects of plastic sleeves are two: they can scratch discs and they can warp discs.

If the sleeves are made good, however, (i.e. not too tight and provided with a material that will not scratch discs when you insert/extract media from the sleeve) they are a reasonable alternative to jewel cases :)[/QUOTE]
I see… Btw, I guess disc warping is external factor, right?

[SCC]

Hello~ Is there anyone that can help me out?

[geno888]

[QUOTE=SCC;2149386]
Besides, I already had 2 discs corrupted. Do u think it could be caused by burning the disc exceeding the stated maximum speed? Or by the sleeves? The sleeves seem to be sticking onto the discs like there’re water on it, which it doesn’t actually.[/quote]
Probably it was the too high speed to cause problems.

Btw, I’m using Mitsubishi DVD+R, which is a top graded discs inferior only to Taiyo Yuden. Do u think it can be burned at high speed?

The only way to answer is testing the discs. Too bad there is a wide variability in quality among batches available in the market. If you got an excellent batch you can burn it also at 22x with excellent results but these I must say that personally I never got such an excellent batch of media

& how do u see the results? Juz merely on whether it can be read? Or testing the burn quality?

The most reliable method to check the disc quality is the quality test (often called “scan”) with cd-speed (and of course a reliable burner to run the test) coupled with the reading test. If the scan and the reading test both pass, then the disc is well burned.

[QUOTE=SCC;2149386]I see… Btw, I guess disc warping is external factor, right?[/QUOTE]
If the sleeve is too tight, it can warp the disc. Even collecting sleeves on book-like folders can warp discs, but sleeves that are not too tight should be a good alternative to jewel cases

[QUOTE=SCC;2149590]Hello~ Is there anyone that can help me out?[/QUOTE]

Are you in a hurry?

[SCC]

[QUOTE=geno888;2149599]Probably it was the too high speed to cause problems.[/QUOTE]
I see. So, it’s not bcoz of the sleeves?

[QUOTE=geno888;2149599]The only way to answer is testing the discs. Too bad there is a wide variability in quality among batches available in the market. If you got an excellent batch you can burn it also at 22x with excellent results but these I must say that personally I never got such an excellent batch of media [/QUOTE]
I see. Dun be sad… Life can’t be perfect, right? Haha. So, 8X - 12X is still the best choice?

[QUOTE=geno888;2149599]The most reliable method to check the disc quality is the quality test (often called “scan”) with cd-speed (and of course a reliable burner to run the test) coupled with the reading test. If the scan and the reading test both pass, then the disc is well burned.[/QUOTE]
Hmm… As time pass, the DVD will deteriorate. Hence, more error will be produced from reading the disc & if the disc is not well burned, the disc error can’t be correct & thus can’t be read. So, the longer the DVD can lasts the better the burn quality is.

So, is ur meaning of good test results assure of the long lasting of the DVD as well?

[QUOTE=geno888;2149599]If the sleeve is too tight, it can warp the disc. Even collecting sleeves on book-like folders can warp discs, but sleeves that are not too tight should be a good alternative to jewel cases[/QUOTE]
Oo~ No wonder u guys would say it’d warp discs… Anyway, I’m using the non-tight one. ^^

[QUOTE=geno888;2149599]Are you in a hurry? :p[/QUOTE]

Hmm… Well a lil. =p I’m waiting for the identification of the source of prob to prevent it for my next burn, which is wat I wanna do now… Lol. A lot of things stocked in my pc now.

[geno888]

I see. So, it’s not bcoz of the sleeves?

If the sleeves really contain something causing stickiness, this can certainly cause problems, mostly if the data surface has been ruined by that substance. Be sure that sleeves are stored in a dry place and away from sunlight. This will certainly make discs readable for a longer time.

I see. Dun be sad… Life can’t be perfect, right? Haha. So, 8X - 12X is still the best choice?

In most of cases yes. I personally burn all my media 16x certified at 8x or 12x max.

[QUOTE=SCC;2149829]Hmm… As time pass, the DVD will deteriorate. Hence, more error will be produced from reading the disc & if the disc is not well burned, the disc error can’t be correct & thus can’t be read. So, the longer the DVD can lasts the better the burn quality is.

So, is ur meaning of good test results assure of the long lasting of the DVD as well?[/quote]
The disc deterioration with time is inevitable. But if you store discs properly (in a dry place and away from direct sunlight) a disc can be stored successfully even for some years. I have discs burned in early 2005 that are still perfectly readable with excellent scans.

Of course, the scan test is not a perfect way to make previsions about durability in time. Some discs (mostly Ritek media) give excellent scans after the burn, but after few months the scan become ugly and the amount of errors is so high that some discs become coasters after few months. So, also the quality of media is important, and this is one of the main reasons why is better to not buy “el cheapo” media and spend some money buying quality discs.

[SCC]

[QUOTE=geno888;2149979]If the sleeves really contain something causing stickiness, this can certainly cause problems, mostly if the data surface has been ruined by that substance. Be sure that sleeves are stored in a dry place and away from sunlight. This will certainly make discs readable for a longer time.[/QUOTE]
Hmm… It won’t cause stickiness to the disc, but it strangely stick to the disc… I wonder is it too fine or wat… This is the 1st time I see sleeves stick to the disc, so I’m a lil skeptical on that.

[QUOTE=geno888;2149979]In most of cases yes. I personally burn all my media 16x certified at 8x or 12x max.

The disc deterioration with time is inevitable. But if you store discs properly (in a dry place and away from direct sunlight) a disc can be stored successfully even for some years. I have discs burned in early 2005 that are still perfectly readable with excellent scans.

Of course, the scan test is not a perfect way to make previsions about durability in time. Some discs (mostly Ritek media) give excellent scans after the burn, but after few months the scan become ugly and the amount of errors is so high that some discs become coasters after few months. So, also the quality of media is important, and this is one of the main reasons why is better to not buy “el cheapo” media and spend some money buying quality discs.[/QUOTE]
Haha. Ya, of coz. So, if the scan right after burning is good, regardless of the media quality, it suppose to be staying that way all along, right? Would it be like the scan right after burning is good, & the media quality is good, but it deteriorate very fast later on? I ask this bcoz I think I got quite a good result with high speed burning.

[geno888]

So, if the scan right after burning is good, regardless of the media quality, it suppose to be staying that way all along, right?

No. Too bad there is no way to say how long a disc will remain readable. Even if the scan is perfect right after the burn it is possible that the disc will become unreadable after few months. This is a well known event with Ritek media.

The only way to make previsions about durability in time is to read personal experiences of users posting here in the forum. Based on this, it is possible to say that some media have a better reputation to be durable in time. The most reliable discs are Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden. All other brands have a widely variable duration in time, but a decent disc usually remain readable for at least 2-3 years.

[SCC]

[QUOTE=geno888;2150573]No. Too bad there is no way to say how long a disc will remain readable. Even if the scan is perfect right after the burn it is possible that the disc will become unreadable after few months. This is a well known event with Ritek media.

The only way to make previsions about durability in time is to read personal experiences of users posting here in the forum. Based on this, it is possible to say that some media have a better reputation to be durable in time. The most reliable discs are Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden. All other brands have a widely variable duration in time, but a decent disc usually remain readable for at least 2-3 years.[/QUOTE]
I see. So does this means that if the scan quality is good, if regardless of the media quality, would the quality of the disc remains so? For example, if I manage to get good scan with high speed burning, can I stick to high speed burning? Would the high speed burning makes the disc deteriorate faster, even if the scan is good?

Isn’t Mitsubishi discs are good as well? The source of Verbatim discs is from Mitsubishi too.

[geno888]

For what I know there is no relation between the burning speed and the speed of deterioration in time. Even a disc burned at 4x can deteriorate quickly.

The only thing that can ensure a long duration in time is the quality of the disc. Currently, only Verbatim and TY are the best media that have a proven long duration in time. All other brands have a HUGE variability. Some batches are still readable after 5 years and other became unreadable after few months.

The only practical use of the scan is that because of all discs will deteriorate in time, a disc with a lot of errors theoretically has a higher probability to become unreadable in time, but there is no actual relation between the quality of a scan and the duration in time of a disc.

The main everyday usage of the quality test is to decide, after the burn, if you want to burn again the same data on a different disc or if the disc is good enough to be stored. usually, when a disc contains too many errors I burn it again if it contains important data. Otherwhise, I store the disc and when it becomes difficult to be read, and the I still need these data, I burn it again on a new disc.

So, too bad, there is no way to make previsions about the duration in time