Burning CD at 1x


#1

Hello!

I need to burn CDs but I think the only burner I have isn’t slow enough.
Its minimum speed is 8x which is not that high, but when I put a burned audio CD into a reader (two actually if I count my PS1), the only thing I get is a complete static sound. No problem reading it from the burner though.

So I have two questions: can I force my burner to burn more slowly? (it’s a Samsung TS-H552)
And if not, where and how can I find burners that burn as slow as 1x or maybe 2x? I can’t find anything on eBay for example.

Thanks


#2

If the burner doesn’t have support in the firmware for ultra low speeds with your particular discs, then no, you cannot make it go slower.

Why do you think ultra low speed burns will help?


#3

I´m not sure about the meaning of 1x-speed, but most actual DVD-/BD-writers can only burn min. 16x

Have you tried a higher write speed and other CD-R-media?

A writer with1x-speed will be hard to find. The last drive with 1x was IIRC the Yamaha CRW-F1 which is hard to get and expensive. Some 16x and slower CD-R-writers support it also, except Philips-based writers with minimum of 2x

TBH, for me it´s a myth that slowest burn speed make good quality.


#4

Thank you both for your prompt answers

I thought low speed burns would help because the burner itself can read the disk perfectly while my 2 other CD reader give an horrible sound.
I didn’t think of other reasons that would explain that, I’m not educated in this matter though.

Also what I read on internet seem to agree with me, not that it means anything, I know


#5

As I recall, and mind you, this is from ten years back or more, the extremely low speed burns were mostly necessary for burning copies of certain games so that they would work in some of the early consoles. Its been way too long since I’ve read anything about this however.

Burning slower isn’t a cure all for other types of burns. With more modern media, some of the best burns are done at mid level speeds. I always burned audio CD’s at 16x personally.

What discs are you using? I may not be much help here though, since I only used Taiyo Yuden CD’s, and TY has been out of the optical disc business for a while.


#6

To be honest, burning copies of PS1 games is exactly what I want to do.
The info I gave is while using a game that has many audio tracks.
The discs I’m using are random aliexpress CD-Rs so I don’t have any info on them.


#7

No one needs CD burning at 1x these days anymore.
Firmware strategies from the firmware and the used (rated) CD media is all what counts.
I doubt that the CDs you are using are any good!!


#8

Burning CDs at a slower speed allows the laser to burn a cleaner recording because the laser stays on longer when it is recording the track. However, most of the CD burners that record that slowly would most certainly be IDE drives and it has been years since computers have had IDE sockets and controllers. There is a open source program called CDBurnerXP that allows you to specify 1X recording speed, but I have no idea if it will actually slow down modern burners to that speed. Plus I do not know if it’s grab function will duplicate PS1 discs. I understand that Imgburn or CloneCD will duplicate a PS1 disc, but I have no experience at doing it. Here is a link that provides instructions for both programs. I hope it helps. https://unrealbyfusilade.wordpress.com/non-unreal-tutorials/playstation-tutorials/playstation-1-tutorials/ps1-copy-games-tutorial/


#9

Compare proper scanned Discs even in this very forum and you will see that your theory is not true.


#10

Huh, slower rotation/speed means the laser stays longer on the track; but I guess it don´t use the same laser-power like at high speed.

I´m not absolute sure on the effects, but IMHO a 52x-specified CD-R is made for high speed with high laser-power, not for slow speed with less laser-power


#11

Junk media is another reason for failure.

As others already mentioned, no modern drive (made within the last 15 years or so) supports writing at 1x, and there is no modern media that can handle such low writing speeds.


#12

I guess nobody here remembers “Audio CD-R”. They are rated for 1X writing in CD recorders, which of course always write at 1X. Apparently still available for sale:


#13

Sure, I know those media. But it wasa special media for CD-recorders which don´t accept standard CD-Rs, at least without a hack. It have a special “mark” and it expensive.


#14

Audio CD-R’s are an extremely common media type and not that much more expensive since the AHRA royalty consists of only 3% of the cost of the Audio CD-R ($0.45 for a 50-spindle costing $15).

All currently produced Audio CD-R’s are physically identical to their regular data CD-R counterparts not subject to the AHRA fee, with exception of the SCMS bit and therefore will function the same when written to at low speeds. That is not to say that they will work well but clearly the manufacturers believe these CD-R’s are at least acceptable enough for low-speed recording to be certified and sold for that specific purpose.

The truth is that as long as we are talking CLV based writing strategies, there is going to be very little benefit in writing at an obscenely low speed. What does matter is the write strategy used, which when using modern computer drives is going to be optimized for higher writing speeds, 8x and 16x in my experience provide the best quality with current production Phthalocyanine media (CMC Magnetics, Ritek etc). Avoid CAV based strategies (24x and higher).

But since your goal is to make these discs work in your Playstation 1, even a perfectly written modern disc will not be sufficient. I likewise own vintage PS1’s and PS2’s as well as CD players from decades ago that have serious issues reading modern CD-R’s. The solution has been to use high-reflectivity (aka long strategy = cyanine, azo etc) media. I have found that the disc quality makes little difference for this purpose, since even the lowest quality Super Azo discs made by MBI in 2011, that come from the factory with such “features” like real holes in the middle of the reflective layer, beginning signs of oxidation and dye defects as well as horrendous quality scans still are recognized and play just fine in those picky players and are recognized faster than P-Cyanine media in others. So for compatibility, high reflectivity is King, not write speeds or even write quality. Unfortunately this means you have to change your media type, since there isn’t much you can do to polish a turd, so to speak, with your aliexpress sourced junk media.

If my subjective experience does not convince you enough, then I present to you actual test results done by an assemblergames.com user (topic link) who connected a multimeter and an oscilloscope to the laser diode drive circuit (APC type in this case) of the PS1 console and obtained the following figures:

Condition DMM Scope (p-p)
No Disc 580mV * About zero.
PSX CD 587mV 1.05V
HK Silver 587mV 0.95V
Audio CD 587mV 1.00V
Crap CD-R 587mV 0.70V
T-Y CD-R 587mV 1.00V
Azo CD-R 587mV 0.95V

He further clarified that the “Crap CD-R” in this test was a Phthalocyanine CD-R made by CMC Magnetics and branded Sony.

As you can see from these results, the P-Cyanine discs produce a significanly weaker voltage output which translates to lower precision reading, which means more errors and less chance of data being readable. The Taiyo Yuden and Mitsubishi Azo discs had values comparable to the pressed discs.

This supports my conclusion and experience that you need long strategy CD-R media to improve compatibility with most older, picky readers rather than worrying about getting the best write quality with P-Cyanine discs. Sorry if this post was a bit technical, if you have further questions I’ll try to answer them.


#15

This is a misguided perception, for a couple of reasons. There are various ways that a firmware engineer could implement a low-speed writing strategy, and while long bursts are one way, a strategy with the same speed can also use an approach in which the laser writes the date in short bursts and then waits for a longer amount of time for data input. This is what we commonly refer to as “Short Strategy”, and it is more suitable when writing modern Phthalocyanine type discs since they do not need as much laser power as the older media - “Long Strategy” types. Of course this is a simplified explanation and there are many other aspects that go into writing a certain type of disc correctly.

And continuing from that, the implication that more laser power (“laser stays on longer”) MUST produce a better quality burn, is simply incorrect. A phthalocyanine disc has a more sensitive dye requiring more precise laser power calibration and less intensity. This is the correct way to write those discs, and your suggestion of using a strategy designed for a different dye formulation would likely result in coasters, or barely readable discs.


#16

Aztekk, Thank you for your explanation. It is obvious that you know more than me.


#17

Of course you can physically record all of today’s CD-R x1 media.
Only you need to have a recorder that can write with such a transmission, that is very old CD-RW models (eg: Yamaha - all models, Teac CD-W54E, Teac CD-W58E, Plextor PX-W8432, Plextor PX-W1210)


#18

Thanks for the reminder :slight_smile:
At least I’ll have a valid excuse for keeping the PX-W1210A on the shelf.
Now to explain all the others to my wife :grinning:


#19

Beat me to it.
I used a Pioneer PDR-509 (1999-2000) before computer CD-r burners really took off. I found the Sony “Audio” discs (photo in your post) were hit and miss, as they changed manufacturers so often.
In Canada (and some other countries) there was a tax on the discs to pay royalties, and a flag built into them which didn’t allow making a “copy of a copy” (with the consumer grade standalone units).
Computer burning changed all that; but I still used the Maxell Music discs for as long as they were made in Japan by Taiyo.
The standalone/component units burned at only 1x for a few years. They got up to 4x write speed (select-able) before they started to be phased out.
You can still buy the semi-professional units from HHB and maybe Teac, but I’m not sure if they’re NOS or still being manufactured. They’re pricey even used, but they accept regular CD-rs (ie no copy protection/added royalty tax). https://tinyurl.com/ycjcmctn

Most modern burners and media are actually designed to write better at higher speeds and many (most) are locked at speeds no slower than 8-16x.

The closest you’re going to get to the older IDE drive’s speed and consistent quality is with the newer Optiarc and Plextor writers manufactured by Vinpower (with a Lite-On based chassis). They have special firmware chips that are designed to write at 4x.

So, these days, the slowest speed is what used to be celebrated as the fastest…twenty years ago!

The newish Plextor and Optiarc + (plus) ODDs are probably your best bet, while they’re still available.
It’s taken so long to type this, that someone else may have already covered everything I’ve posted…probably TMI, but it might help…good luck!

BTW… I thought to mention that I picked up a couple of these Lite-on iHas325-17 drives from Amazon.ca (cheap Canadian $) that have been almost decent and play in older component players from 2006! I don’t know how accurate the scans are, but they show very low errors and have played in everything I’ve tried $17.99 CAD is pretty cheap in US/Euro $ … https://tinyurl.com/yadxsu2e

Forgot to mention the good results are burned at 16x with Taiyo Yuden CD-rs under Verbatim name/branding. They were bought several years ago in a 50 cake box so I don’t know if they’re still around. I just got back into burning recently and had them carefully stored in the original packaging. That really is all I got…for what it’;s worth :wink:


#20

It’s been so long that I don’t now if I’m doing this properly but these are a couple of scans from the inexpensive Lite-On 325-17 at Amazon.ca right now.
K-probe gives the same results but I really don’t know how well/accurately these drives scan. But the burned discs play in every burner/player I’ve tried so far…(as already mentioned).

ATAPI___iHAS324___F_CL8M_28-January-2019_02_16|609x500