Burning 16x discs at lower burn speeds

vbimport

#1

I’ve read in a topic somewhere that burning 16x discs at lower speeds than the maximum actualy reduces quality. In the old days people would advice to burn at lower speeds to improve quality.
I don’t have a drive which can read the burn quality so i can’t test this myself.

Can someone explain if this is true?

Thx


#2

It is incorrect that burning at lower speed always means better quality. 4x and 8x media should be burned at their rated speed. An exception is 16x media, which can perform better burned at 12x or even 8x.
This depends on both media and drive…


#3

I agree.

It’s always best to try burning at the rated speed of the media and see how it goes.
Some burners do 16x media very well while others do them better at 12x.

Conversely some media, particularly Taiyo Yuden T02 (8X +R) burn very well at 12x & 16x in some burners.

If you give details of your burner & the media you use then specific advice can be given.


#4

My dvd burner is the LG GSA-4166B and i use Verbatim MCC004 discs. I’ve allready read the review of my burner and saw that those discs are burned very well at 16x.

But my question is more in general, cause i’ve read that burning at lower speeds is a myth with the latest high speed discs. Just wanted to know if there’s any truth in it.


#5

So have we answered this to your satisfaction?

I’d probably drop the speed of MCC004s to 12x in all my burners as that seems , generally , to give the best results.


#6

The LG 4166 is a great drive. It also uses UDMA 4 mode in its firmware which helps the speed and the transfer rate. 16X media (Verbatim or Taiyo Yuden) burn very well at 16X in this drive.


#7

I was wondering, has there ever been a post on cdfreaks showing Nero Data Disc scans from the same batch of 16x discs burned on the same drive at all available speeds? And maybe including a 1x from a standalone as well?


#8

Not too sure, but I’ve done something similar with Prodisc F02 on my 1693S. I say “similar”, because I only chose 4x, 8x, and 16x as burn speeds for the discs I tested.

IIRC, the 4x burn was worse than the 8x and 16x ones, which were about the same, quality-wise. :slight_smile:


#9

Thanks [B]Arachne[/B], it must be here somewhere, the trouble is where to find it. Now which 16x discs do I really don’t want any more…

OT: Hope you’re not still mad at me :rolleyes:


#10

OT: I was never mad at you! The rolleyes smiley is just a bit confusing to me :wink:

If you like, I can post the scans I mentioned above (yes, I actually did keep these scans, for a change :bigsmile: ).


#11

You mean these stopped happening? Oh good we get to seem some Arachne scans. I would like to see them.

Cres if arachnes mad you will know it and she won’t be using a smilie to show it.

(Hehe an excuse for two new smilies. Here’s what I think arachne wants to do to me that’s a week old kipper by the way)


#12

Yes Jay - you deserve a slap with a week-old kipper :bigsmile:

Edited: firmware was different, and I was missing a scan. I’ll do some tests tomorrow - I have plenty of time on my hands. :slight_smile:


#13

Ah so they are still happening then. You’re not the only one.

Back to the topic. It was in the past true in some cases depending on media quality, that buring at lower than rated speed was best to help produce a successful burn. With drive technology today, using good quality media this is no longer the case. Though if using an 8x drive you realy have no choice bu to burn 16x discs at lower speeds, infact I know someone who still has a NEC1300A running in his system and he may have to update when 8x discs disappear.


#14

Actually, burning 16x rated dvd media at 12x gives better speed and quality results with some burners.


#15

Well someone should tell my burner That… I Burn 16X DVD±R blank discs on 1x speed & 8X DVD-+ discs on 2x2 or 4x speed (depending on the name brand) & they have come out crystal clear. not one coaster or freeze up durning the movie in the last three years or so. Knock on Wood or in my case on my Keyboard console.

Another thing burning those Blank DVD-+R on there top speed like that will leave you taking a big chance on weather or not it will read on your DVD Players when its done.
the way DVD Blank disc are going up in some store i rather not take that chance…

But to each their own!!!


#16

They might come out crystal clear, but quality scans will look different if you burn 16x rated discs at 2x and not at 8x or 12x. And quality scans can be important to see how long the data will last and stuff :wink:


#17

What burner have you got that you can select 1x burning speed? My guess would be a 4x or 8x that doesn’t support the 16x disks.

Burning at rated speed gives me the same results as you. No coasters & perfect playback on my DVD Players.

Also I do a Disk Quality scan on every burn to ensure that my burners reach an acceptable quality.

But as you say , each to his own.


#18

Okay this is how it is in short.

It’s not easy. In case of media there are a few things playing a role.

1 Support.
2 DYE (Is it optimized for high speed ?)
3 Manufacturing quality of media.

Let me go over these and suggest it’s influence on speed. (for 16x media)

(1) Can work out good for high and low speed. In some cases Manufacturers got lazy and 4x support isn’t as fine tuned as let’s say 8x or 16x.
However the other extreme is that 16x was quite crappy implemented and is to fast. So this one can turn out both ways. Most times 8x is the safe option here.

(2) For what is the dye optimized ? Most 16x disc’s use disc’s optimized for high speeds so burning at low speeds like 4x with good quality will be harder to optimise to not impossible. Still higher speed will be better (arround 8x /12x)if the media is in good shape. (A good dye should handle all types of speed prety well and would only require good support.*)

  • The reason why I can burn Mitusishi 16x media good on my Pioneer 106D at 4x !

(3) I allready said good shape. Bad manufactureing quality can cause problems (shape, Bad pressing, Radial problems). Now most of these problems are less problematic at lower speed. So burning at lower speed would be better in this case.

(1) and (3) are reasons why some magazines and some people recommending low burning speeds like 4x even on 16x media.

With really high quality good supported media 16x should be as good as 12x.
In most normal cases 8x-12x should give you the best options.
And incase with crappy media or very poor support for high speeds it might be good to see what happens at 4x.

So I would say start with 8x -12x. IF you really need the time then check how it performs at 16x. ANd if 8x-12x fails you might want to try 4x.

In the really old days 4x/2x (3) (manufacturing quality) was a mayor influence.
in the later 4x/8x area it became much less important.
But with 12x-16x it has come back to importantance specially on the 16x part because of the speed becomming that high that at 16x it behaves differently as at lower speeds.(in some cases the different behaviour can allready occure at 12x)


#19

There is one person publishing such tests of high speed rated MID codes
Burned at all the different writing speeds:
[B]it’s YSS the samouraï ![/B]
[B]And he does this for nearly every new burner …[/B]

See here for example for TYG03 burned in a Plextor PX-760A:
http://homepage2.nifty.com/yss/px760a/px760a_dvdben1.htm

Then he puts a summary of the results in a table where the best figures are [B]in blue[/B].
In the following one extracted and translated from the above link:

  • the best PIF &t PIE occurs @ 12x mode P-CAV
  • the best jitter @ 6x mode CLV.

I know that in this table the values indicated are total PIE and PIF and not the more interesting max values,
so I advice you to read the original link containing all the CD-DVD Speed & PxScans graphs !
Looking at them I think that the difference in quality is not that bif beetween the different burning speeds.
[B]I think that [I]most of the time [/I] a well tweaked firmware is able to modulate the laser power to do the job correctly for all allowed speeds.[/B]


#20

As [B]Dakhaas [/B]put it, it seems like the answer to the original question depends mainly on two parameters, 1- the media manufacturing quality, 2- the firmware support for different speeds of the burner used.

So it’s not a clear cut. Most recent burners (last 14 months) seem to burn these better @12X. In some cases of media/burner/firmware combination, I’ve had outstanding burns @4X with 16X media (example: MCC03RG20/Pioneer 108D/1.20), in other instances these were coasters (example: MCC004/Benq 1650/BCFC with SB ON).

As it’s often been stated in this forum, burning quality is down to the media/burner/firmware combination. Every combination has its peculiarities, strong points and weak points. So there is no “one-fits-all” answer. Just the very sensible guidelines that others have posted above: start by trying @12X, then try different (lower) speeds if you’re not happy with the 12X results.