Bulkpaq 8x speed media problems with NEC ND-2500A and MSI MS-8216S DVD-ROM

Hi,
I’m having some problems with the newly released Bulkpaq 8x media (Orangy/Red Colour: http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?NOV-DVD25M) on the NEC ND-2500A drive. I have the NEC official 1.07 firmware. I have used this drive and the Bulkpaq 4x speed media for ages and everything has worked fine with no reading/writing problems at all.

But when I burn something with this new ish 8x speed media I get problems when trying to read it on my DVD players (various new and old Sony models). The reading is kind of unreliable, sometimes it works mostly, sometimes it doesn’t. It tends to skip and jump in the middle, or particularly at the end or start. Sometimes quite a lot, sometimes just now and then. Playing the media on my MSI MS-8216S DVD-ROM is hopeless, it hardly can play any of it, only bits and that usually freezes my whole PC and puts loads of “An error was detected on device \Device\CdRom1 during a paging operation.” in the Event Log.

I have tried burning the media at 4x speed and this has seemed to improved the situation. I seem to now be able to play media on my DVD players ok, but still my MSI DVD-ROM won’t read it at all, or will, but will error alot and put the above error over and over in the Event Log.

I have tried different software too. I backup my DVDs using DVD Shrink or sometimes copy them to the HD using DVD Decrypter. Burning them I have used DVD Decrypter, Nero, Roxio Easy Media Creator 7 and all seem to cause the problem, certainly at 8x speed.

So where does the problem lie? Is this bad or not so good media? Is it the drive burning it wrong somehow so it can’t be read properly? Usually this MSI DVD-ROM has been a very good compatibility drive with no problems reading even extra cheap media. It also has the latest firmware from MSI (1.30).

I have done a lot of searches and read a lot of articles on the forum - there is just so much information I don’t know what is to do with my problem! I’ve seen articles about “Prodisc S04” is this the same type of media I have and just another name for the manufacturer?

Do I need to put the Herrie firmware on? I’m not sure about this cause of loosing my warranty, but will this fix the problem? Is it just the media I’m using. If so, it’s very annoying cause the Bulkpaq 4x speed was great media, worked on everything and never had a problem at all.

Or will the Herrie firmware just allow me to burn this media at 8x without a problem? If the NEC ND-2500A has this problem why doesn’t NEC release another new firmware?

So has anyone else got the MSI DVD-ROM or have any good/bad reports/experiences of it?

Sorry for all the questions. I’d be very grateful if someone could give me help. Thanks tons :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

My System Spec:

Pentium 4 3.0Ghz HT enabled
512MB PC3200 RAM
Asus P4P800-E Deluxe Motherboard
2x Mirrored Maxtor DiamondMax8 120GB HDs
NEC DVD-RW ND-2500A (1.07 firmware)
MSI MS-8216S DVD-ROM (1.30 firmware)
Windows XP SP1 all extra updates

Anyone help please?

I have found out that the manufacturers ID of my media is TYG02 and on http://www.videohelp.com/dvdmedia.php?selectmedia=2148#comments people don’t find it very good :frowning:

I just need some advise. I’ll be very grateful.

Thanks :wink:

Bulkpaq are crap. Dont buy them.

Thanks for the reply :slight_smile:

Can you suggest a media type for this drive then please?

I have always only got -R but now thinking about it maybe I should be trying to move to +R. Apparently it has higher compatibility? Is +R ok for data too?

Platinum is good for - and + and not too expensive. If you want the very best, you can take YUDEN000T02 8x+R, it’s so good that the 3500 burns it at 16x using stock firmware and there are no noticeable problems.

Flash your drive with Herrie’s 2k5107v2b5dl, that will give you improved media compatibility and quality and also speed upgrades. As a bonus, you’ll also get DL support. Maybe it can help you burn your remaining bulkpaq’s more reliable.

Thanks for the reply and info :slight_smile:

Never heard of Platinum… are they available in the UK? YUDEN000T02 is that the manufacturers ID for those?

Platinum is available through ddvd.info or Xcitek, but I think ddvd doesn’t ship to UK. There should be many other shops who also have them, but you could visit one of these two shops to get an idea what Platinum is.

YUDEN000T02 is the media code. They’re sold as different brands. Fujifilm 8x+R is one of them.

Hi
Datawrite grey 8x aren’t a bad disc,burnt 50 with Fuji code and 30 with Prodisc F01 code no coasters. You can get them here for £5.99 for a 25 pack
http://www.blankdiscshop.co.uk/acatalog/FOR_DVD_R_RW_CLICK_HERE.html
ANV 8x GO5 Vary by the spindle but OK for price.

Thanks for the help Squirrel & bamo :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

This is such a nightmare… I’m torn between upgrading the firmware, although I’m confused which one to go for and what exactly it does… moving to +R or just trying another -R …

Is this major compatibility problem even gonna be sorted? :frowning: It seems that it getting worse rather than better, there is just so many different types of -R and again so many different types of +R and it’s not even possible just to stick with one make either! Now to my amazement there’s even millions of different firmwares and modified firmware…arrgghhh. I don’t remember it being this bad when we first had CDs… at least then we only had -R instead of even more alternatives!

Few questions, please help me get my head round a few things… :wink:

  1. Is this the best firmware to apply for my ND-2500A drive? 1.07 v2 beta5 ? Is that Herrie’s 2k5107v2b5dl ?
  2. “It includes RPC1, riplock removal, 2100@2500” RPC1 is the region change thing aint it? Riplock means that the speed I rip a DVD is unrestricted? Whats “2100@2500” mean?
  3. In polls the votes between -R and +R seem to be about equal with -R just a bit below. Which I don’t understand. I use -R cause I thought it was better than +R…now I’m not so sure. If +R is better with compatibility why don’t everyone use it? Why does -R die a death?
  4. Is Ritek G05 dye the best dye?
  5. The graphs here: http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=96333. What are they actually showing? What are they actually doing? I’m guessing it’s showing the transfer rate in a graph to see how well it’s reading the disc or somthing to do the reflection… is it good for more or less reflection?

Sorry if any of those have already been answered or if it’s obvious. Before these damn Bulkpaq 8x everything was fine so was no need to come to a forum to fix it!

This forum is great, has so much information, it’s hard to know what is actually relevant though! Or at least understand it all! :wink:

Thanks again

Sorry forgot another question :wink:

From the discs here: http://www.blankdiscshop.co.uk/acatalog/FOR_DVD_R_RW_CLICK_HERE.html

If we ignore the price for the moment, cause they are all roughly the same really, which is the VERY best for compatibility in DVD players/DVD-ROMs etc etc?

I see your suggestion bamo, but see lots of things round this forum about Ritek media… it sounds like thats the best … ?

I will try and help you sort out a few of your questions.

There’s no such thing as a “best” firmware, just think of it in terms of “best suitable for my needs”. But that Herrie firmware is very good and very popular. I had it on my 2510 and had not a single problem with it. However, you have to be cautious, because it allows to burn many media at a higher speed than rated. Some media just can’t handle this and turn into coasters.

RPC1 indeed is the region-free stuff. Riplock means that you can’t rip a protected DVD at usable speeds. There are many workarounds, a riplock-free firmware is one of them. Bitsetting (you didn’t ask that but I’m sure you will) means that you can burn a +R (doesn’t work on -R) as if it was a DVD-ROM. That is, when you insert the disc in any kind of player, it will be recognized as a DVD-ROM, where discs without bitsetting will be recognized as DVD+R. Bitsetting usually greatly increases compatibility with home players and game consoles. The 2100 is just another NEC drive and the 2100@2500 means that the firmware is patched so you could flash it in a 2100 drive without problems. Unpatched firmwares make your drive unusable. For 25x0 you don’t need the patch, but it won’t harm, either.

At the moment, -R isn’t dying. To make a long story short (and maybe not completely correct): for video, use -R, for data, use +R. The + format also has advantages for video editing, but one usually does that with a computer and only burn the final movie.

I don’t know much about dye qualities, maybe someone else can answer on this one. But when you want the absolute top of quality media, look for media with a genuine Taiyo Yuden media code. But beware, there are many fakes around.

PI/PO/PIF are error counts. You can find an extended explanation elsewhere on the forum. Look in the LiteOn section, because LiteOn is one of the few drives which are able to read PI/PO/PIF values from a disc. Generally: the lower the better. Spikes are allowed, because they’re mostly caused by external influences, ie. not from the disc. PI should be <280, PIF <2 to comply with the standards. Higher values usually mean that a disc has read problems or even is completely unreadable. The Nero graphs show the speed at which a disc can be read back. A straight line without drops or mountains mean that the disc can be read without problems and so give an indication of the burn quality. It can be done with any drive, but is not as reliable as PI/PO/PIF scanning.

The Datawrite Grey disks Bamo mentions have media code FUJIFILM03, but I think they’re media which didn’t pass Fuji’s quality tests, because I can’t find any nice graphs from them. That won’t say they’re bad, I fully believe that Bamo could burn them without a coaster. But graphs that are not nice usually indicate that you can expect readback problems on certain equipment.

I didn’t have the time to study the whole list, but in general, look at the media code. Do a forum search on this media code and read what other users think of this media. You will learn soon which media to choose and which to avoid. And which can be burned at higher speeds than rated.

Thanks so much Squirrel, thats been a big help :slight_smile:

I have applied Herrie’s firmware now and will give it a test soon. I guess then I just need to be careful and when I have 4x media, I make sure I select to burn at 4x. That would be ok wouldn’t it?

Thanks for confirming Bitsetting, I knew what that was anyway cause of the useful article on the front website page. However, I completely confused about this statement now:

“At the moment, -R isn’t dying. To make a long story short (and maybe not completely correct): for video, use -R, for data, use +R. The + format also has advantages for video editing, but one usually does that with a computer and only burn the final movie.”

I thought it was the other way round!?! Especially as like you say with DVD+R I can change the booktype and make it more compatibile.

Yeah the bad Bulkpaq 8x media I have has a media code of TYC02… so thats obviously fake. I don’t really wanna go near them ever again! :frowning: :frowning: :frowning:

That stuff about Fuji’s media don’t sound too good, but I’ll do some searches of media codes like you suggest :wink: What is annoying is that different batches can have different media codes… makes this more of a nightmare than ever!

Thanks again :slight_smile:

Yes, that would do the trick. If you want to be sure, you could test a few discs burned at 8x. If you don’t have access to LiteOn drives (a DVD-ROM drive is enough) for KProbe testing, try Nero’s CD-DVD speed. A nice straight graph is always a good sign, small drops are acceptable but big drops indicate bad quality. Usually you can improve quality by burning slower.

That’s right, but home DVD players still accept more -R than +R media, even with bitsetting. However, -R doesn’t allow any kind of multisession and that’s the reason +R is more suitable for data. Btw, the difference for video acceptation is not that much, it’s just a few players which make troubles.

As said, I might not be completely correct. But this forum can answer more than you could ever ask :slight_smile:

Some stores mention the media code on their website. However, this is still no guarantee that you’ll get what you want. I agree, confusion is big, even when there were no fake codes… And those fakes only make it bigger :frowning:

Thanks that clears lots up. :slight_smile:

I don’t have a Lite-On drive no, but a DVD-ROM would do for KProbe?

I have just burned a Bulkpaq 8x at 4x and still doesn’t work on my DVD-ROM hardly at all and doesn’t EVEN work on my NEC drive completely. I started doing a Nero CD/DVD Speed and it started sort of ok then went rapidly down hill then failed altogether with a UNRECOVERED READ ERROR!

These Bulkpaq really are crap. :a :a :a

Kprobe works with all LiteOn DVD burners and the newer DVD-ROM drives. I have a LTD-165H drive on which Kprobe is working fine. It seems however, that DVD-ROM drives are not too reliable, it’s just an indication. I read somewhere on this forum that DVD-ROM drives return much higher values.

I see :slight_smile:

Where can I get KProbe? I guess I need to do a search around this forum for more info on it :wink:

What I seem to be finding with these Bulkpaqs is that some are sort of OK and some are just completely BAD! I don’t understand.

I managed to find a few old TDK DVD-R 4x (which were expensive so I’m guessing good quality). Which also burn at 6x with no problems! :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

Check this out:

What does each line mean? Is that the best result? On some pics of this I’ve seen it like an arrow with a peak in the middle. Is that ok too?

Now the werid thing is that the media code for these TDK is TYG01!! :eek:
And Bulkpaq TYG02, but of course that must be fake. :iagree:

Check this out:

Thats on one of the bulkpaq 8x, but others of them I did either completely failed or gave me the most wiglely line in the world - went all over the place!
Obviously thats no tailed off, what does that mean? It doesn’t like the end of the DVD? But this one should be ok tho? :confused:

Also I’ve noticed the type has differed between those 2, one is CAV and one is P-CAV whats that mean? :confused:

So thought I should get some more TDKs… http://www.cd-rmedia.co.uk/cgi-bin2/details.pl?id=tdkdvdrsp
Which are not bad priced and if they are super I don’t care! But, they have a media code of TTG01 and some other people on this forum had problems with em. I thought TDK were supposed to be well good. :rolleyes: Now I have no idea what to do.

Sorry I know it’s more questions, but I’m getting this thing now. Soon hopefully I should be a master and avoid crap! :Z

Cheers

the tdk are using genuine taiyo yuden dye. this is why u r impressed with its quality (and price). the bulkpaq dont use the taiyo yuden dye. they just use the same media code (hence, u wouldve bought these for cheap).

if u r determined to buy from svp (i live in uk also), and quality is a must, then stick with taiyo yuden:

{DV 3138} Taiyo Yuden (8x) Unbranded DVD-R in Heavy Duty Spindle Tubs of 100
The Taiyo Yuden discs sold by SVP are genuine Taiyo Yuden bought from an official Taiyo Yuden distributor.
Please note that there are many vendors selling discs with a TY media code that are not genuine Taiyo Yuden discs.

SVP Price: £64.99 / €uro93.54. Prices include VAT.

an alternative is the verbatim disks. they are second only to the taiyo yuden.

{DV 3150} Photo Printable Verbatim (8x) 4.7Gb DVD-R Disc in Spindle Tubs of 50 (Stock Arriving Fri 29/10/04)
ADVDINFO: MCC 02RG20

personally i use the following disks with no problems (note that my particular writer is very picky. i bought it very early (nec2500a).

http://www.cdrepublic.com/customer/product.php?productid=142

10 DVD-R 8x DataRight #142
Price: £ 3.99 (€ 5.99), including VAT 17.5%

if u dont wanna bulk buy, i would suggest u try 10 of the above disks (£5.50 inc postage). if u like em then buy more. for bulk buy: taiyo yuden, if u can afford them.

many people use datawrite grey (8x) disks with few problems. but i dont trust those disks in my writer as my writer tends to dislike the cheaper disks. my writer = very picky.

ps. bulkpaq disks are the worst i have ever used. 100% coaster rate. and ive used plenty of disks in my time.

Yup Bulkpaq are rubbish

I got these sames discs as part of a deal from ebuyer, NEC3500A and 25 Discs, but not one of them burned. Nero would fail the power calibration at 2x…

So i went out and purchased some ANV RED Tops, 8xDVD-r which have the Ritek G05 Media code… Paid £8.50 for them.

So far Ive burned 20 Discs and not one coaster, seems as tho the RitekG0x codes work fine in the NEC3500A drive and quite possible they’ll be fine then 2500A drive aswell

Peav

For Kprobe, look in the LiteOn part of the forum.

The green line in the graph is the read speed. Along the X-axis is the position in MB or GB, the Y axis specifies the factor. So you can see, your drive starts reading the disc slightly below 4x at 0 GB and climbs up to slightly over 8x at 4.3 GB.

The yellow line is the drives rpm, also relative to the position.

The upper graph you show is an example of a perfect burned media. However, the real quality of the burn is measured better by PI/PO/PIF values. When the read speed graph suddenly drops and stays low, you can be sure of a coaster, but you already know that :frowning: Short peaks and drops are allowed and sometimes even normal, you can recognize the speed switch of your drive in it.

The TYG01 TDK’s are genuine TY, so you can see what difference it makes! I have some of the same discs at home and my 3500 allows me (with Liggy’s beta8 firmware) to burn them even at 12x !!! I haven’t tried that yet, but I surely will!