Blu-ray Disc Association: DVD-Ranger replaces audio stream to remove Cinavia

vbimport

#1

We’ve just posted the following news: Blu-ray Disc Association: DVD-Ranger replaces audio stream to remove Cinavia[newsimage]http://static.myce.com//images_posts/2015/04/myce-sony-leak-bda-dvd-ranger-95x75.jpg[/newsimage]

Documents leaked in the Sony hack reveal that the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) believes that DVD-Ranger’s Cinavia removal tool CinEx HD “replaces marked audio streams with unmarked streams”.

            Read the full article here: [http://www.myce.com/news/blu-ray-disc-association-dvd-ranger-replaces-audio-stream-to-remove-cinavia-75856/](http://www.myce.com/news/blu-ray-disc-association-dvd-ranger-replaces-audio-stream-to-remove-cinavia-75856/)

            Please note that the reactions from the complete site will be synched below.

#2

The developer stresses that CinEx HD doesn’t hide the Cinavia signal but actually removes it and that it’s impossible to replace the soundtracks
for various reasons.
Of course it’s possible to replace the soundtracks! A complete replacement, for example if you have both the Blu-ray and the DVD of the same movie, is more or less “a piece of cake” as long as the soundtracks are in sync. If not, you’ll have to use an audio editor such as Audacity to sync them up. You should avoid PAL DVDs since they run at a completely different speed than Blu-rays and NTSC DVDs, and will be more difficult to sync.

The real trick comes if you want to replace only the Cinavia-infected parts of the Blu-ray audio with audio taken from (for example) a Cinavia free DVD. That too is possible by applying some very clever filters. That’s of little use for individuals who would only like to do the replacement for their own use, but if you should want to (illegally) distribute many cinavia free replacement soundtracks on-line, you would of course want their footprints to be as small as possible. By only keeping a limited frequency range, you can achieve a much better compression than with the full range soundtrack.


#3

Gezz that documents over 1 yr old


#4

the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) believes that DVD-Ranger’s Cinavia removal tool CinEx HD "replaces marked audio streams with unmarked streams.
Nevertheless, the actual way CinEx HD hasn’t been uncovered yet, so these are only guesses.

So,they are only guessing,the bigshots didn’t uncover anything yet…:bigsmile:

It now appears the developers of Cinavia, Verance underline this hypothesis.Analysis is currently underway by Verance

So,Verance is reverse engeneering CinexHD Utility and DvdRanger?Isn’t that illegal? :eek: :bigsmile:

TBH,I don’t care how Ranger does it,be it by replacing the audio or by removing the Cinavia signal,but while I’m no fan of his attitude, I do care about the fact that his programs work,and that’s what counts for me…:iagree:


#5

CinEx HD’s superiority unintentionally confirmed by recent leaks from Sony
Here’s the link to the blog he quoted:
http://www.cinexhd.com/cinex-hds-superiority-unintentionally-confirmed-by-recent-leaks-from-sony/

And here’s the text of that blog:

April 25, 2015 In their 2014 report, the Blu-ray Disc Association states that “DVD-Ranger released a new Cinavia removal module that replaced marked audio streams with unmarked streams. Analysis is currently under way by Verance”.So, they are analyzing our module since 2014 and they have not found any solution yet? Well that’s because there is no solution. We remove Cinavia completely and this cannot be countered in any way.As for the technical details, without giving away too much information, we can say that we do not replace the audio but just remove the Cinavia signal. Surely this looks like we would replace the audio as one cannot distinguish the results from removing the Cinavia signal on the one hand and replacing the audio as a whole on the other hand. But actually there is an audio effect which is still left because it is not necessary to remove: the wobbling introduced by Verance in order to prevent hacking of their Cinavia signal. If we would replace the audio with a clean source, this wobbling would also disappear but as we are only removing the signal it remains intact. The effect is barely audible thus hearing the wobbling out of the audio processed by CinEx HD can only be done by persons having a well-trained ear for harmony.Due to the immense computational demand implied by our method we have to precompute the Cinavia signal in our own laboratory and then pack it into a database which is then used by CinEx HD on the client side to remove it from the source. The removal procedure has been designed to be highly qualitative, unlike our first non-HD attempts.We must also stress at this point that there is no point in having a DTS Master HD or TrueHD compression if the audio is marked with a Cinavia signal. Those compression schemes are lossless, that’s true, but lossless compared to what exactly? Compared to the original master they are actually not lossless because they have an overlaid the Cinavia signal which counts as an synthetic audio artifact. So even though the HD audio codecs are lossless by their nature, it’s the Cinavia signal which makes them non-lossless compared to the non-marked original master. Now even as we are removing the Cinavia signal with CinEx HD the quality while being exceptionally high, it will still not be lossless compared to the original master because the process of introducing Cinavia destroys the original signal without it being fully recoverable up to losslessness. This means that once the original is Cinavia protected, every lossless codec becomes pointless, even the one available on the original Blu-Ray.

Edited in the interest of making it more readable. :flower:

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#6

Ok simple solution to all the same ones whom 3 yrs ago wanted the proof , well it has been given use the tools released it shows the reverse engineering . Now the second solution is to drag out you check books and Buy the license for the Command line plus the several other licenses that go with it , co brand your very own burning software  . then leak how it is done to the world and watch your investment go down the toilet.  just a few USA dollars .Just a bunch of Zeros . Â

This will solve all the mystery , hush the proclaimed wanna be software engineers whom think , IE: The Boy Next Door nearly 40 gig Bd , and take the audio and compress it to 89 mg to replace the original audio stream . " good trick if it could be done, you would be darn rich with that algorithmÂ

Its just money .

Oh you can close this one to now ,Â


#7

[QUOTE=DVDRangerForum;2752862]Ok simple solution to all the same ones whom 3 yrs ago wanted the proof , well it has been given use the tools released it shows the reverse engineering . Now the second solution is to drag out you check books and Buy the license for the Command line plus the several other licenses that go with it , co brand your very own burning software . then leak how it is done to the world and watch your investment go down the toilet. just a few USA dollars .Just a bunch of Zeros .

This will solve all the mystery , hush the proclaimed wanna be software engineers whom think , IE: The Boy Next Door nearly 40 gig Bd , and take the audio and compress it to 89 mg to replace the original audio stream . " good trick if it could be done, you would be darn rich with that algorithm

Its just money .

Oh you can close this one to now , [/QUOTE]

This is the very attitude that will get it closed…


#8

We all know most of the “nearly 40 gig” is video; with AC3 or DTS the entire audio track (or at least the parts with the Cinavia signal) should be covered in 89 MB. That’s why most people who aren’t CinEx fanboys believe CinEx is stealing Cinavia-free audio from other sources; it’s not proven, but it’s actually BETTER evidence than CinEx’s claim that SlySoft stole source code. All CinEx’s “proof” proves is that SlySoft is starting on the same track CinEx did before they switched to the controversial database. If SlySoft used open-source code, they definitely know how to use it properly; why would they steal it? Reverse engineering is more likely.


#9

[QUOTE=coolcolors;2752871]This is the very attitude that will get it closed…[/QUOTE]
I’m surprised that this thread is still open right now…

[QUOTE=HogMan;2752972]We all know most of the “nearly 40 gig” is video; with AC3 or DTS the entire audio track (or at least the parts with the Cinavia signal) should be covered in 89 MB. That’s why most people who aren’t CinEx fanboys believe CinEx is stealing Cinavia-free audio from other sources; it’s not proven, but it’s actually BETTER evidence than CinEx’s claim that SlySoft stole source code. All CinEx’s “proof” proves is that SlySoft is starting on the same track CinEx did before they switched to the controversial database. If SlySoft used open-source code, they definitely know how to use it properly; why would they steal it? Reverse engineering is more likely.[/QUOTE]

I would hope that CinEx would go after the real source of all of this: the MPAA/Blu-ray people responsible for Cinavia.

They are the real threat.


#10

[QUOTE=HogMan;2752972] Reverse engineering is more likely.[/QUOTE]

So you are saying it is alright to reverse engineer some one else’s work and then claim it for your own

Marty


#11

[QUOTE=whatever_gong82;2752973]I’m surprised that this thread is still open right now…

I would hope that CinEx would go after the real source of all of this: the MPAA/Blu-ray people responsible for Cinavia.

They are the real threat.[/QUOTE]I wish everyone would stop buying movies with Cinavia in them and send a real message to the MPAA/ ACCS it would not be a month and they would be feeling a big hurt at verance and movie sales.:slight_smile:


#12

Unfortunately  they are now expanding to the other Regions now and other Languages . Even Sony will release other Studios titles for them in other regions as we have since found.

Lets see Sony / Verance after 1 yr 1 month , just can’t figure out our work , plus all the wanna be self professed  software gurus here claiming we replace the audio stream . Isn’t it just amazing that Sony/ Verance has not found this to be true in over a year.  which I just think they know more than the Pro posters here.Â

 What do we know you guys here at MYCE claim to know more than we do on how our solution works even Sony/Verance.


#13

[QUOTE=DVDRangerForum;2753031]What do we know you guys here at MYCE claim to know more than we do on how our solution works even Sony/Verance.[/QUOTE]

Again going down the slippery slope to getting closed again.


#14

[QUOTE=DVDRangerForum;2753031]Unfortunately they are now expanding to the other Regions now and other Languages . Even Sony will release other Studios titles for them in other regions as we have since found.

Lets see Sony / Verance after 1 yr 1 month , just can’t figure out our work , plus all the wanna be self professed software gurus here claiming we replace the audio stream . Isn’t it just amazing that Sony/ Verance has not found this to be true in over a year. which I just think they know more than the Pro posters here.

What do we know you guys here at MYCE claim to know more than we do on how our solution works even Sony/Verance.[/QUOTE]
If your replace the audio stream then why can’t you fix The Hungar games region 1 yet with a database you have it for region 2 for over a month?

OH I bet I know you can’t find a english stream to replace the Audio with:D:D


#15

ILLP

You will have to asked the professional Software people here  that question , Since they know more than Sony/Verance and the software developer how this works

IE:  take Hunger Games Mocking Jay in which the Audio BD FILE is 3.5 gig  and we compressed it to 78.9 MB.

I want this software that compresses an Audio file  this small  Ill pay for it ,licenses it, brand it , the sell it myself , and Retire again , Ahh can’t do that my wife says I do anything now.Â

MYCE Pros find this software and demonstrate how this can be done , I have to see this in action!!!


#16

The actual Cinavia signal(s) must be a very small percentage of the whole audio track or they’d be audible. You wouldn’t need to have the whole audio track in the ‘database’, only the bits needed to mask or replace the Cinavia signal(s). CinEX also doesn’t deal with the larger uncompressed tracks so your 3.5 gig figure is irrelevant. CinEX creates a compressed audio file that is more like a couple hundred MB. The fact that you continue to insist that your process is too computationally intense for anyone but DVD Ranger also doesn’t ring true…


#17

I’m with coolcolors .
@ DVDRangerForum .Stop the “left-handed” comments aimed at MYCE members.
They serve no useful purpose except to [B]flame[/B] .
Us old CDFreaks don’t need them either.


#18

[QUOTE=cholla;2753082]I’m with coolcolors .
@ DVDRangerForum .Stop the “left-handed” comments aimed at MYCE members.
They serve no useful purpose except to [B]flame[/B] .
Us old CDFreaks don’t need them either.[/QUOTE]

Couldn’t agree more…if people want to use CinexHD or Slysoft they are free to choose what they use. But the biggest elephant in the room is that for all the other software copiers out there - they in one from or fashion require that Anydvd HD installed for their software to work.


#19

The issue is , you can use the open source develop the open source its free to do so , BUUUUT you cant profit from it unless you BUY the license from the developer. This is clearly stated in the GPL and there use must be published being it is opensource . Now does this clear this up at all .

[QUOTE=HogMan;2752972]We all know most of the “nearly 40 gig” is video; with AC3 or DTS the entire audio track (or at least the parts with the Cinavia signal) should be covered in 89 MB. That’s why most people who aren’t CinEx fanboys believe CinEx is stealing Cinavia-free audio from other sources; it’s not proven, but it’s actually BETTER evidence than CinEx’s claim that SlySoft stole source code. All CinEx’s “proof” proves is that SlySoft is starting on the same track CinEx did before they switched to the controversial database. If SlySoft used open-source code, they definitely know how to use it properly; why would they steal it? Reverse engineering is more likely.[/QUOTE]