Blu-ray and HD DVD disc unification talks have finally ended

I just posted the article Blu-ray and HD DVD disc unification talks have finally ended.

  Just a  few weeks ago, both Sony and Toshiba have agreed that the chances for a unified next generation HD  disc standard was going to be very slim.  This was the result of  Toshiba's...
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At present, if a movie was released in both 2 formats, the BD format would be 2-3x as expensive as the HD-DVD. That should tell you something about the future of BD, unless media makers get on board with massive production. If you were a media maker, would you build completely new production lines on a bet? Or would you keep the present equipment which is only a couple years old and make HD-DVD discs. The only people currently in position to make money on BD are the people making the hardware that MAKES BD discs and drives. Is it a coincidense that those are the same people pushing the format?
[edited by rdgrimes on 22.06.2005 00:44]

yeah, that is true, BUT hd-dvd only holds about 25gb, blu-ray is about 50gb, allows higher quality video and audio, wont really notice it though, but is FANTASTIC for backing up your harddrive. you could fit about 70 * 700mb xvid movies on 1 disc, which would be incredible.

Well, I hope this is final. And this is great we’ll have competition to drive prices down. My first own choice is going to be a blu-ray rom for the PC - the capacity is higher and single layer media (25GB) must become cheaper than dual layer hd-dvd of 30GB, in the long run. I’m so looking forward to start backing up my favorite TV series in XVID :p. Cheers

i wonder what kind of space is required to display 1080p video and if even blueray has enough space for that. i can’t see 25gig having that much better quality over normal dvd unless they use mpeg4 compression or other such things. now i can see 50-200g having a great image quality improvments and would pay 30$ for a super hifi quality movie not just an upconverted dvd.

If a future disc can store 200GB then you won’t NEED compression - you could store full frame uncompressed video/audio for a full movie. I intend to SUE those who will come out with BD and HDDVD, why ? Because I have spent considerable amount of money on a DVD player, and now that ALL DVD players will be obsolete and DVD media will NO LONGER be sold or produced I will be FORCED to buy a BD or HDDVD writer, what about all my existing DVDs? It’s already that JVC, Panasonic, Sony and others have completly stopped producing VCRs, VCRs are no longer… VHS tapes will stop production this year… AGAIN, you are always welcome to react on our news, but USE A DECENT SPEECH
[edited by H3rB3i on 22.06.2005 08:49]

To Rimmer66: If you are generally against the progress, why dont you stop cursing and take up some simple-way-of-life religion, say join Menonites. Nothing will worry you no more, and your “considerable” DVD player will be used by the community to say, crack nuts and other honorable survival needs. Old VHS tapes can easily be converted to fishing gear. Please, keep the filthy language out of our respectable forum. With all due respect, FidelC

Good. Tech moves fast. This is an incremental step along the lovely road of higher-capacity removable storage. (and DRM, hopefully not implemented in blanks you buy in the shops…) Let’s hope we see big improvements from both sides, rapidly falling prices and actually get a decent removable format (or two, or fifty) for a fair price. DVDs are quickly getting pretty puny in comparison to the average HD (and miniDV tape…and…and…). The gap just keeps widening. This should be great and I’m excited to see the progress and revisions both sides do to fight for the (ripe, IMO) high-capacity removable storage market. :g

Unfortunately, if BD goes head to head with HD-DVD in competition, they will lose very fast. There is no way they can compete for price on the discs. Hardware will be competitive, but BD discs will remain expensive for a long time. Think of it as expensive dual layer media compared to single layer media and you get the picture. HD-DVD has plenty of room for HD content BTW. Ask anyone with a HD DVR how much content they can put on it. It varies enormously with the actual bitrate of the content (which also varies a lot). But with current so-called HD programming, 25GB should be good for up to 2.5-3 hours, much more with MPEG-4.
[edited by rdgrimes on 22.06.2005 05:31]

I agree that the blank media cost is a key factor… I will be among the ones that will prefer two 25 GB HD DVD-R instead of one single 3-4-5x expensive 50 GB BD-R expecially if you think that to back up HD Movie you won’t really need that much space and you risk to waste a lot of space in the process. For the few HD DVD-ROM dual layer you will be able to use future version of program like the DVD-Shrink. Note that it’s not currently planned the production of HD DVD-R DL :c

@warzer A full movie in 1080p will fit on a “25gb disc”. 1080p (full res) mpeg2 coding.

At one time cd burners cost $700 and the media was a $100 a piece. Now there almost obsolete. DVD burners are so cheap and the media is also dirt cheap. So we see that the future for BluRay is fine. It will be expensive at first and then the price will plummet.

uncompressed 1080p will take like 950gb/90min, so you’re quite far from being right, Rimmer66

  • A full movie in 1080p will fit on a “25gb disc”. - 1080p (full res) mpeg2 coding. Not to mention that both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD offer the much more efficient H.264 codec that uses approximately 75% less storage space for comparable MPEG-2 quality. Basically meaning 30GB will be plenty for 2+ hours of 1080p H.264 video. Danny.

It is really difficult to say. Hi-tech era has often lose drive because of costs. I think we could have better technologies than it should be now. But as a consumer (I don’t hate Sony, I quite like it though), I would prefer cheaper but still reasonable storage like HD-DVD. For example, Memory Stick, which is proprietary to Sony, not many devices would allow Memory stick, but Sony’s devices. It doesn’t sell as well like Compact Flash/SD. So I think Blu-Ray (I really preferred to use it) would sell more expensive all the time when comparing to HD-DVD, like it is now with Memory Stick vs Compact Flash/SD. So in the end, I predict HD-DVD would be cheaper than Blu-ray. Unification is good to consumers (as most consumers are simple minded who doesn’t want to know about “formats”), they don’t have to know the technology behind and they don’t have to make a decision for which format to buy. All they want is just the movies, who care in what format. “Formats” are confusing to most people (like those who doesn’t read CD Freaks!). And I think these people are the majority. Unification is good.

There’s no question about it, the cheaper format will always win… not quality (just look at VHS vs Beta, beta was superior but Sony was greedy and refused to charge fair license fees and refused to license beta tapes to the porn industry). It looks like Sony has learned their lesson. Or for another analogy, RDRAM is superior to DDRAM but RDRAM had disgusting huge costs, guess who won that war? If you’re a movie company and you want to release your movie and you are going to release 10 million copies, would you rather pay something like $5 million ($.50/disc) or 15 million ($1.50/disc). Easy answer there. Toshiba really must have their head up their asses if they think they can win a war when they have both an inferior format along with a huge price tag. The ONLY thing going for Toshiba is the name… HD-DVD would cling with the consumer easier than BluRay. But only time will tell.
[edited by Rhelic on 22.06.2005 15:08]

The general consensus is Toshiba has the cheaper format. So u mean Toshiba will win and Sony has their head up their butts, right? :g

one other interesting point is that PS3 is going to be Blu-ray, this will probably make Blu-ray more popular, at least BD-R will be, especially when games start coming out on Blu-ray

If the Ps3 takes off and sells a lot of games I am sure Sony will put a lot of the money they get from each disc sold back into production in order to lower the price of the format. Also when you have games that sell millions of copies you have a much better chance of getting up off the ground then hd-dvd does which of course will start off really slow from the transfer of dvd’s to hd-dvd’s. Unless all dvd publishers decide to stop using reg dvd’s altogether and just go hd-dvd (there is a dual layer disc I believe availible with hd-dvd on one layer and reg dvd on the other) then they have less of a chance to make any move in the high def market. I think Sony has the upper hand here.

For all who are still unsure: Toshiba = HD-DVD = 15 GB single layer, 30 GB DL, 45 GB Triple layer (also is a standard BTW) Sony = Blu-Ray = 25GB single layer (!), 50-DL and up to 200GB for 8 layers. So, 25GB SL blue is roughly the same as 30 GB DL hd dvd. Based on today’s 10x price difference between DL and SL madia, Sony should be winning the battle in the long run. FidelC