Blank CD-R quality? (TY)

vbimport

#1

I'm considering buying a spindel of blank 40x Tayo Yuden cd's.
I know TY's are pretty good CD-R's but don't know if these CD's will last because they don't have an extra protective layer, just the silver on top.

Will these cd's last a few years or will the top layer get off soon?


#2

They will last if you handle them with the same care you normally handle CD’s. Having them in a case is a good idea.

Or maybe you torture your CD’s? :wink:


#3

Nah I store them in CaseLogic cases, and try to take good care of them.


#4

if they are cyanine or azo cdrs than you are in luck. but if they are those crap light green colour cdrs (dont mistake them with TDK beacause TDK is a much darker green) then they will die very quickly. crappy green dye colours like this suck bad, if you bump them from the top, they will actually lose their data layer like you said you were fearing before!:eek:


#5

“god of burning” has confidence, that’s for sure… :slight_smile:

I, OC-Freak and I belive most other are of the opinion that phthalocyanine (light-green/goldish) are better than cyanine ones. The exception would be TY who makes good discs, but you can’t (shouldn’t) write them at higher speeds then they are certified for.
Phthalocyanine can handle high recording-speeds better then cyanine. The only advantage I see with cyanine discs are that they are more compatible with older CD-ROM’s.


#6

use whatever cdrs work best for you. the light green cdrs are good for high speed recording cause the laser in the writer needs less power to write them. cyanine cdrs are great for slower recording and azo is good for anything. it all depends how fast you want to burn and how long you want the cdr to last. i personly never use anything apart from long stategy cdrs (azo, cyanine) for audio cds and game cds.

also i would like to know why you guys and girls use such high recording speeds like over20x speed. its just thrashing the writer everytime you do it. and burning slower makes the cdr more readable to different players. i have a 20x speed writer and i write at 4x speed (which is the minimum speed it can go) and occasionally 8x speed. no cd player or playstation console has ever failed to read the disc.

finally, 4x speed is much slower than 8x 12x speed and 16x speed. but once you get to a speed over 16x there is not much difference in the time you save when burning. you might save one minute at best. its pointless to burn at ridiculous high speeds.

:cool:


#7

Do a simple test: Put your long strategy CDs in the sun and put a Prodisc or other high-quality Phthalocyanine disc beside it, let’s see who lasts more… Phthalo CDs are less compatible with older drives theorically, but run fine in whatever I’ve tried. (including an 80’s CD Player.) Phthalo is more resistant to time/UV/rain/heat.

Also, burning high-speed is more friendly to the writer than low-speed. The laser has to stay on a higher amount of time, which results in more wear.

It may be just a little faster, but it’s faster, and it allows me to burn in a hurry, sometimes the 4 minutes between 32x and 16x can be the difference between having time to burn and having to wait till later, plus, in Phthalo media, the error rates are higher at too-low speeds.

I’ve always burned PSX, audio, whatever at 32x and never had a readability problem. (On good media, like Prodisc, Princo, “true” DST.)


#8

My current CD-R’s (New @rita) are identified as made by TY and have a long strategy dye.
I’m quite happy with them, my Plex 40x burns them quite well (certified for 32x IIRC).
But this spindel is almost depleted and I’m about to buy new CD-R’s.

I’m still doubting between these:

  • 24x TY/New @Rita with label.
  • 40x Tayo Yuden 40x CD-R’s without label (only silver top).

Which of these 2 would you guys buy? :slight_smile:
The higher certified speed would be nice, but if the New @rita ones are much better I will get those.
I don’t know which dye the blank 40x TY’s have ;(


#9

For TYs, (since they’re cyanine) it’s totally recommended that you do not burn at a speed higher than what they’re certified for, so if you want to burn @ 40x, you should go for the 40x.

But, if they have no “protection layer”, then you should only buy them if they’re gonna be carefully stored, since they’re in my experience more susceptible to heat and humidity. (Had a couple of them that were attacked by fungi.)

The 40x TYs have, of course, the newest generation of TY Cyanine dye (forgot its fancy name), since TY is the inventor of cyanine, and will never use another dye.


#10

fallen,
phthalo cdrs will not survive the heat,uv radiation, and they do not last as long as as azo cdrs like verbatim. verbatim has supirior protection against sunlight!,heat,time etc. you are the biggest bullshit artist i have ever seen!!! i have some young cousins who are experts at wrecking playstation cdrs like there is no tomorrow. they scratch cds on both sides, put smudges on it and never store them in their actual cd cases. these cousins of mine have gotta be the best little brats to test cdr durability on. ive tried many cheap and expensive cdrs on them. their psx is also very old and worn out. ive tried Phthalo, cyanine and metal azo by verbatim. the Phthalo cdrs dont even last a week, the data layer gets scratched too easily and they wont work when smudged, scrathed etc. a bloke i now also burnt cdrs for them, with pioneer cycnine cdrs. they worked a while and survived scratches smudges etc but eventually got decimated by the little ones. finally i tried verbatim metal azo cdrs. they survived smudges, scratches, and everything those brats threw at it. i burnt the cdrs over 6 moths ago and am happy to report that they still work brilliantly on the playstation.

one more thing, you cannot save 4 minutes between 16x and 32x speed, because 16x only takes about 3.5 minutes !!! are you telling me that 32x speed takes -30 seconds to burn a cd!!!:cool:

last of all, that comment you made about 32x speed being more friendly to the laser cause its switched on for shorter periods, what a load of crap:mad: ask yourself this, does running you car at a normal pace ruin it cause the motor is on for more time? or is going at the maximum speed it can possibly go better for it, because the motor is on for less time?? :Z


#11

god of burning: Drop the attitude, try to be sociable once in a while… I’ve had some azo CDs die untouched, with dark spots appearing on them after a couple of years, and they’re not suitable for high speeds, few burners get a good, fast burn on the Azos, I can only record them at 24x most, and I’m sure more people here have had problems with them. Your burner might like them, but they’re far from the top.

I’ve done home-tests on Prodiscs vs TYs here, and my TYs lasted about 20 days in the sun before dying. (Tested every other day, facing 105F heat, brilliant sunlight all day long and fierce rain during the night.) The prodiscs have survived the test. And TY is the best quality non-phthalo discs you can get IMO and in most people’s opinion too, (and that’s probably why they’re supposed to be the subject of this thread and even though they failed faster on critical conditions, I still use them because they’re reliable in real-world conditions.)

Mechanical resistance has nothing to do with the dye, you must have been using phthalo CDs with a weak top layer, maybe shiny tops or some of the worst unbranded stuff, not saying that the top layer on verbatims are good because they’re not exactly great. (Sticky on high-humidity environment, spots missing the layer…) Plus, the top layer comes off easily with water.

Okay, 4 minutes was a slight exaggeration, now that I’m looking at benchmarks, it’s about 3 minutes on average… Which is still a great portion of the burning time.
16x burning takes on average 6 minutes and some 10, 20 seconds… (Yamaha, Acer, the burners I tested.) 32x burning takes 3:30 (Cyberdrive, the one I have close to me at the moment.) Full times including lead-in and lead-out, measured according to Nero.

You can’t compare a burner to a car, the burner’s made to use its max speed, the car is not. A burner’s specifically tuned for those speeds, and many burners exhibit higher error rates at lower speeds on most media, especially on the really lower-end of the speed spectrum.
The bigger stress on the burning laser is one of the reasons thay most high-speed burners don’t record at really low speeds, according to some manufacturers.

Mods, sorry for the off-topic.


#12

you are the biggest bullshit artist i have ever seen!!! i

Oh, you’re too friendly…you may think that, but are you able to express this a little bit more … polite? You’re not in de.comp.security.firewall!


#13

I’ve never seen a real big bullshit artist… Do they travel like a circus?
Be friendly god of burning, as other are friendly to you…


#14

Ok back ontopic, I’ve ordered the 40x Tayo Yuden blank CD-R’s.
I store all my cds in CaseLogic cases and try to take good care of them, so I guess it’s not a big risk.

I’m going to do some extensive tests though, I really want to know when/if they can die.


#15

@KwarK: What are the CaseLogic cases like? I mean, do the CDs get stored on a paper/cloth-like surface or does it use a plastic surface like in a cd-box?

I believe that the plastic ones are safer than the cloth ones because the cloth ones tend to gather dust over time…

The times I had problems with shiny-top discs they were in CD-boxes on places that were exposed to indirect light (indoors, but not on a 100% dark place, like, at room-light levels.
My stored-in-the-dark shiny discs are well over a couple years and going on well, so the case is a very good idea for those.


#16

ok i apologise for getting slightly mad previously. but in all my expiriences i have never had a pthalo cdr that has ever lasted the distance.

you fellas may love them but i hate em, and playstations and cd players like azo better than pthalo.

i would like to know where fallen has heard that slower burning is worse for the burner. surely if you had a 20x speed burner, writing at 4x or 8x would surely be much more healthy for it.

how can you say that metal azo by verbatim is not suitable for 24x speed recording. its only certified for 16x and the super azos are 24x speed max. the cdrs that you fellas are talkin about are the premium verbatims, their layer supposedly comes off, but the ones that i use are different. they have a hard white top. they also can deal with scratches much better than any pthalo cdr.

sorry for getting off the topic :wink:


#17

What about the black CDRs? Are they good for backup?


#18

So far I haven’t had any CD-Rs go down on me, but I do my best to keep them out of harsh conditions.

The first ones I bought a couple of years ago (TDK made by RiTEK – Cyanine) are beginning to show signs of failure (excessive C2 errors, especially the inner portion of the disc).

I will not buy any more TDK since their spiral pattern in the center of the disc seems to be the cause of the mayhem (silkscreen coating probably shrunk as it dried, messing up the recording layer). …Also because the 10-pack said “Made in USA,” but the individual discs said “Made in Taiwan.” I was not too happy about that. :frowning:

Since that time I have bought only Fujifilm and Memorex (the Memorex has a nice all-white protective coating over almost the entire disc–works great with Sharpies), and only ones that I am 100% sure of that are made by Taiyo Yuden (they have the screw-off cap (heehee!) and specifically say “Made in Japan” on the packaging.

I did have a problem with some of the Memorex having C2 errors in my DVD drive, which later spread to my Fujifilm discs. I believe I alleviated this problem by dismantling (don’t try this at home, kids! :bigsmile: ), cleaning, and lubricating both of my drives (Creative DVD, Lite-On 32x).

About lasers… I usually burn audio discs at 8x, though I have burned them at 32x Z-CLV with 100% readability (=no C2s). High-power lasers do wear out, though it is my belief that it is caused by the high powers necessary to write identical media at higher speeds. Electronics in general like operating at a constant temperature–the rapid cycling of temperature will shorten component life.

…Though it should be a long, long time before the laser is even close to wearing out in your drive if it was manufactured with this in mind… :slight_smile: