Black CD-R's: Are they really that good?

vbimport

#1

Hi, I was just after opinions from more knowledgeable persons than myself. I’ve heard and read a lot about black dye CD-R’s, about how much better they are than regular silver phthalocyanine discs for music. From experiences are they really? If so, why have I seen only Prodisc and CMC Mag? Why don’t Verb or TY make them if they’re so superior? Or is the blue cyanine dye that TY use better?
For anyone in Australia interested, there’s a site: http://www.blankdvdsupermarket.com.au that sells Databank (CMC made) black CD-R’s 50 spindle for AUD$18.
I bought them just to try, but not being a fan of CMC (had bad experiences before) and no faith in their quality control, I’m not sure how they will go…


#2

Hello to a fellow aussie user! (I assume since you’re shopping from an australian online store).

I’ve gotten stuff from them before and they’re ok to deal with.

As for the black CD-Rs being better than normal, I don’t think so. I’ve always been interested in trying them but I think they’re just visually cool looking. I seriously don’t think they perform better than TY or Verbatim.

Most Verbatim CD-R you see in shops now happen to be CMC or Prodisc unfortunately, unless you can find Super Azo.

I’ll attach a couple scans of some of my CMC Verbatim Lightscribe discs. They actually burn quite well.

Btw, if you want some cheap TY ceramic CD-R - Visit JPLdisplays.com.au. They have packs of TY in jewel cases for 3 bucks! Beats the prices of stuff in spindles. I got myself a nice carboard box filled with them because of the great price. http://www.jpldisplays.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=572



#3

Well the black CD-R use Phtalocyanine and silver reflection layer. Only the polycarbonate or dye is colored. There also have been orange colored discs in the past.
About difference in quality: I dont think that there is any difference between black and normal CMC discs.


#4

Actually, only four Taiwanese manufacturers have ever made black CD-Rs: In addition to Prodisc and CMC, Ritek and Gigastorage also make black CD-Rs. But most home CD scanners (inexpensive computer drives) cannot scan black CD-Rs accurately; in fact, with Ritek-made ones, the black discs came up with more C1 errors on home computer drives than their plain “silver” siblings.


#5

The color cdr may cause read problem in many cd/dvd rom/writers. Once I got some red, yellow, blue cdrs, I tried 10 different cd/dvd rom/writers. There is only one drive could read them. YMMV.


#6

So it’s nothing more than aesthetics then? Well I’ll use these black CD’s for music and save my TY and Super Azo Verb’s for more important stuff. Thanks for clearing that up!


#7

If you do buy them, are you able to scan them in a BenQ for errors/jitter like I did? It would be interesting to see how they perform as they’d make for some realistic looking PS1 backups :stuck_out_tongue:


#8

[QUOTE=kahnmeister;2015289]So it’s nothing more than aesthetics then? [/QUOTE]That, and maketing lies which usually come with laughable ‘technical arguments’ that get very popular among undiscerning geeks under 18. :slight_smile:

I personally find fancy colored discs very cool, though. :bigsmile:


#9

[QUOTE=cd pirate;2015737]If you do buy them, are you able to scan them in a BenQ for errors/jitter like I did? It would be interesting to see how they perform as they’d make for some realistic looking PS1 backups :p[/QUOTE]

Sure, I’ll throw my old DW1650 in and post the results soon


#10

[QUOTE=RJL65;2015075]Actually, only four Taiwanese manufacturers have ever made black CD-Rs: In addition to Prodisc and CMC, Ritek and Gigastorage also make black CD-Rs. [/QUOTE]

Also Postech and Eximpo (Czech republic) were making black CD-Rs :bigsmile:


#11

[QUOTE=pepst;2018488]Also Postech and Eximpo (Czech republic) were making black CD-Rs :bigsmile:[/QUOTE]

And I have some Traxdata (Ritek) ones :slight_smile:


#12

[QUOTE=Arachne;2018551]And I have some Traxdata (Ritek) ones :)[/QUOTE]

“Actually, only four Taiwanese manufacturers have ever made black CD-Rs: In addition to Prodisc and CMC, [B]Ritek[/B] and Gigastorage also make black CD-Rs.”
:wink:

And also some small manufacturers from Asia were making black CD-Rs with Plasmon ATIP


#13

[QUOTE=pepst;2018593]“Actually, only four Taiwanese manufacturers have ever made black CD-Rs: In addition to Prodisc and CMC, [B]Ritek[/B] and Gigastorage also make black CD-Rs.”
;)[/QUOTE]

Yes, so I skimmed the thread :p…I did notice koba’s interesting tidbit, though.

As others have mentioned, the black ones do look pretty cool but they don’t burn any worse or ant better than say, Maxell branded regular Ritek I have.

Read-wise, I only tried them in my LiteOn and Samsung drives, but they seemed to read OK.


#14

[QUOTE=pepst;2018593]And also some small manufacturers from Asia were making black CD-Rs with Plasmon ATIP[/QUOTE]

These Hong Kong made e3Works vinyl black CD-Rs are Plasmon (yes, they are black on the bottom as well).



#15

Ah yes, a subject near and dear to my heart:

Moser Baer India once made coloured substrate media for the Imation Neon range. Unfortunately no more :sad:

As did Moulages et Plastiques de l’Ouest (MPO) who made CD-Rs in blue, red, pink, orange, green and black but again, they seem to have stopped: however if you are interested in a bulk run of Audio CDs/CD-ROMs (i.e. 3000+) you can get them in whatever colour substrate you like.
A residual stockpile of coloured CD-Rs from MPO is here:
http://www.card-rohlinge.de/cr_xt/index.php?cPath=39_40

As a very long time user of CDs with black/coloured substrates I can tell you that they work perfectly, similar to normal translucent substrate discs. Except of course, if they’re made by CMC MAG in which case their dependability cannot be guaranteed over the long term.

They look great and I would very much recommend those Databank printable top black bottom thingies http://www.blankdvdsupermarket.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=100B1550.5
for any use where style is more important than longevity, however I would add one word of caution.

One time, I had an Optiarc 7191S drive (total heap of :Z btw) that in addition to routinely screwing up lightscribe labels, also could not read or write CDs with black substrates, of which I have a lot of from the likes of Prodisc :slight_smile: CMC MAG :frowning: and MPO. Ditto for the green and blue MPOs which are very dark.

Needless to say I promptly RMA’ed the POS, though because I don’t know whether it was a unit fault or a design flaw with that manufacturers products, I would recommend that you test all your equipment with these discs before committing to any serious use of them. Also to avoid using them in any case where you have no idea where they will be used, such as promotional or demonstration discs.

Does anyone have a current Liteon/719x Optiarc drive and can add to this?


#16

SeanW, could you post some quality scans of color MPO CD-Rs? Thanks.


#17

Please bear with me SeanW, I’m going to be a nuisance again. Nothing personal. :)[QUOTE=SeanW;2125455]As a very long time user of CDs with black/coloured substrates I can tell you that they work perfectly, similar to normal translucent substrate discs. [/quote]

addition to routinely screwing up lightscribe labels, also could not read or write CDs with black substrates, of which I have a lot of from the likes of Prodisc :slight_smile: CMC MAG :frowning: and MPO. Ditto for the green and blue MPOs which are very dark.
According both to simple logic and to my experience with discs and drives, the fact that any single drive, whatever its quality, has issues reading a specific type of disc colour, means that this type is less easy to read in general. Thus I see both sentences as mutually exclusive.
Except of course, if they’re made by CMC MAG in which case their dependability cannot be guaranteed over the long term.
‘Of course’ ? Sorry but it’s not obvious in the least, and doesn’t rely on sound observations, let alone statistical evidence. Lots of CD-R discs that people use around the world are far worse than CMC CD-Rs. Let’s start talking about CSI or LeadData if you like. :bigsmile:

Would be nice to avoid the easy way of gossip and prejudice. Yes, CMC production is inconsistent. Yes, they don’t make the best CD-Rs around. But why always beat CMC when the vast majority of the crap out there, leading to data loss and an overuse of aspirin and tranquilizers, is NOT from them. :disagree:. Have you ever heard about the expression “can’t see the forest for the trees”. :wink:

So your sentence should be more like “Except of course, if they’re not made by one of the few known serious, reputable manufacturers out there, and/or you just buy the el-cheapo stuff you usual find in your local store”.


#18

According both to simple logic and to my experience with discs and drives, the fact that any single drive, whatever its quality, has issues reading a specific type of disc colour, means that this type is less easy to read in general. Thus I see both sentences as mutually exclusive.
You could make that case: true. But a wide variety of dark-substrate discs work in just about everything I have and ever had, old standalone CD players, CD-RW, DVD-RW drives, car stereos etc, a wide variety of equipment going back years. Only on one occasion did I encounter trouble, and that was with a drive that I RMA’ed, and the shop felt that my case was of sufficient strength that they automatically refunded my CC within 48 hours.

You will notice that I did qualify my statement by recommending the OP avoid using these for promotions, distributions etc, or anywhere that he will have no idea where they will end up.
But I got the impression that the OP will be using these for some kind of musical standalone use, possibly home and car stereo, perhaps even DJing.
In that case, his/her equipment should work fine with them.

Let’s start talking about CSI or LeadData if you like. :bigsmile:
Never had the pleasure of using 'em.

Would be nice to avoid the easy way of gossip and prejudice. Yes, CMC production is inconsistent. Yes, they don’t make the best CD-Rs around. But why always beat CMC when the vast majority of the crap out there, leading to data loss and an overuse of aspirin and tranquilizers, is NOT from them.
Nonetheless the only time I’ve ever had failed CDs was with CMC MAG.

So your sentence should be more like “Except of course, if they’re not made by one of the few known serious, reputable manufacturers out there, and/or you just buy the el-cheapo stuff you usual find in your local store”.
Fair enough: indeed the last part of that sentence describes the worst of my CMC MAGs, a 10 pack of Lidl branded CMCs all of which failed within 5 years. They had plently of company though.

SeanW, could you post some quality scans of color MPO CD-Rs? Thanks.
Will do. I will put them in a new thread though.


#19

[QUOTE=SeanW;2125694]Nonetheless the only time I’ve ever had failed CDs was with CMC MAG.[/quote]‘only time’ or ‘only times’? Makes a world of difference as far as sensible generalization is concerned.

Personally I haven’t had one CMC-made CD-R failing yet. The oldest are from early 2005.
Then again, none of them are Lidl-branded. :bigsmile:

Why blame a manufacturer as a whole when the real issue is the existence of a low-end market, driven on one hand by foolish customers who want insanely low prices, and on the other hand greedy companies (here by ‘companies’ I mean ‘branding’ companies…) willing to provide these customers with cheap stuff, whatever the quality…? Will they ask Taiyo Yuden to make the discs? TY a japanese company… too expensive! They’ll ask one of the biggest manufacturers, which are able to produce the stuff at reduced costs.

CMC is, mostly, merely a provider that can offer low costs when asked so, because they are BIG. So just like for any company with huge manufacturing resources, quality control varies with the price range. Buy cheap (or no-name brands), get mixed crap. Buy less cheap, get possibly more usable discs. Buy at fair prices, get fairly consistent discs.

Whatever. Considering current prices of CD-Rs, I still recommend TY to anyone. Simple. :cool:


#20

[QUOTE=pepst;2018593]“Actually, only four Taiwanese manufacturers have ever made black CD-Rs: In addition to Prodisc and CMC, [B]Ritek[/B] and Gigastorage also make black CD-Rs.”
:wink:

And also some small manufacturers from Asia were making black CD-Rs with Plasmon ATIP[/QUOTE]Any idea which of those four this MID/ATIP belongs to?

97m16s06f

Its from 16x Memorex 700MB “black” CD-R’s made in Taiwan.