Beta-VHS clash offers insights into coming DVD war

I just posted the article Beta-VHS clash offers insights into coming DVD war.

 This is an interesting article as it does a very good job of  recounting the Betamax vs. VHS competition for the consumers heart in the last  century. There are certain parallels too, in...
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The extra capacity offered by BluRay is irrelevant for movies - the 15/30/45GB offered by HD DVD is more than sufficient for a high bitrate MPEG4 movie of any (realistic) length, multiple lossless soundtracks and extras. Whether the difference in capacity (especially when compared to cost) will make a difference on the PC front remains to be seen - but it’s unlikely IMHO. What will matter is region coding (for non-US users), reliability of the media, range/number of video titles available and cost. On all these factors HD DVD seems head and shoulders above BluRay so far (even though BR has more studios onboard). Naturally we’ll have to wait and see once the formats are launched though…

Wait no DRM, no Rootkits, No AACS, No “bizarre” Fox “Extra” Security,No worry since the Court already decided in your Favor(Disney Vs Sony) and no Possibility of ever being charged Twice or more to watch My own product-----I Think i’ll stick with Beta. (Also cheaper Media)

[edited by jef195 on 26.01.2006 15:53]

The only thing that actually make me think that BD can have a SLIGHT possibility in surpassing the HD-DVD is that it will be available on the PS3… As a customer I want a cheaper and less anti copy format. I really do not care to have a disk with a 100 GB capacity expensive and with a lot of restricitons… :r

BETA-VHS has no bearing on this really. Those two formats were the first commercial-to-home systems! Blu Ray wont be our first experience with recording tv or watching movies at home so it’s kind of a different scenario. I would say it will “TRY” to play itself out like VHS versus DVD but it wont work. DVD is here to stay for many many years to come. When hard drives pick up in cheapness and availability (meaning more companies make all hard drive recorders) and digital on demand becomes more mainstream, these discs will become useless. Watch and see.

Yeah, the Beta-VHS thing was obvious… VHS could fit full length movies, Betas could not. The comparison to BD vs HD-DVD on this count is a big red herring. Capacity, above DVD size, is like the billionaire who’s just made another million - it really doesn’t matter, does it? What may stick in people’s minds is the root kit fiasco. Also, Sony doggedly pursues its tech to its own detriment - witness ATRAC3/Minidisc - they could have jumped on the MP3 bandwagon well before Apple, and chose not to. See also “Memory Stick” - the only reason people buy them now is to pirate PSP software or becuase they are stuck with Sony digital cameras. Sony is mired in a proprietary technology mindset. They want to own it all, or else they don’t want to get involved. If it weren’t for the massive support they get as a flagship company in their “home” country (which is threatened as they continue to move jobs out of Japan), as well as the success of the Walkman (built on NON-PROPRIETARY technology) and Playstation (accidental, they can thank Nintendo for being even MORE short-sighted) lines, where would Sony be today? Surely a successful company, but hardly an innovator or leader. What may win the day for HD-DVD is the ease in manufacturing… this will be key, as it will give HD-DVD a higher profit margin (this was a BIG factor in the success of Playstation over rival N64) down the line on product. Delivering titles at a considerably lower cost than their competitors. Both formats still have to battle the public perception that they are toys for the rich, though. DVD movies still look great on the few HDTVs that are filtering out to the masses… until HD monitors become mass market (and a lot cheaper), there is NOTHING - I mean NOTHING to distinguish BD or HD-DVD from standard DVDs, except a huge investment for people to restock theiur libraries and to buy new players. Who wants to do that - especially if you don’t really SEE much of a difference? The leap from VHS to DVD took almost 10 years - and the advantages of the move are obvious, but prices had a lot to do with that. The move to next-gen DVD does not have so obvious advantages, except that to really see those advantages, I need to invest $$$$ into a new TV. Who cares? I’ve already got a big screen 55" TV. Replacing it with a plasma is an investment I can’t afford and can’t see any reason to make. The Wal*Mart crowd is the one these guys have to play to. For them, HD-DVD is probably the best bet (cheaper, availability), but even then, I just can’t see how big you can bowl them over when they just purchased that inexpensive $30 progressive scan DVD Player and flat screen CRT - then bought a large library of movies. I predict both or either format will not gain a foothold for at LEAST 7 or 8 years, even then, something better may come along (perhaps the loser in this battle?) to spoil their ascendency and make them irrelevant.

i think that none will win. as a consumer, i want all my digital media in one place, not in hundreds of cases on my shelf. i want large hard drives to store it all and the ability to download/stream movies straight to my home without the need for any kind of optical media/holographic media. backing up my data online on secure servers, even running my programs from a central server to eliminate the need to ever install anything locally. this way, the data will always exist. with optical storage its a case of it has a finite lifetime. yes even hard drives can fail but thats the whole point about backing up online and streaming content direct to your home, you would never need a hard drive really i suppose.

Ultimately the winning format may be decided by computer users, in the race for newer faster bigger/better home pc’s ,for they hold the key as to which way the market will flow! Plus throw in the pyschological impact, at the retail store end, if one sees 30 HD-dvd, players which can play ordinary dvd’s from the users existing library and a mere 5 more expensive blu-ray players which may not, which one will you buy? Probably explains why samsung, is offering a versatile computer user bluray recorder, fully capable of all existing optical disc’s to off set the costs! As for SONY, due to problems of it’s own self creation, it will need every last penny, it can milk from the punters on this product, for it’s very own financial survival, for the next decade!(explains why sony is selling new bluray pressing plants that are sold for a mere one billion dollars each according to some financial journals!) So alas, it will all hinge on the actual retail price of this product, and the availability of mass produced recordable disc’s for all computer users! The average home user, will need very deep pockets, for the large capital outlay equipment upgrade costs, to take full advantage of this products superior resolution! So what came first the chicken or the egg?

It’s not that VHS won because it literaly offered twice the storage, it won over Beta because you couldn’t put an entire movie on a single beta tape when it first came out. Your average movie was 70-90 mins back then and VHS was the first format that would allow companies to sell movies, which is why home video playback boomed. And of course there’s the whole porno thing too (VHS only) but that’s another story

[The comparison to BD vs HD-DVD on this count is a big red herring. Capacity, above DVD size, is like the billionaire who’s just made another million - it really doesn’t matter, does it?] Of course it does! :slight_smile: It’s a big difference between living off a $4.7M fortune and a $25M one. The extra $20M really helps, trust me on that.

Those who remember know that the VHS/Beta issue was about money, since Beta was technologically superior. I have no idea about the different DVD formats so can’t speak on that, will say that whatever names with clout back one format will cause that format to be the accepted one.

themushroom: You are correct, Beta was (and still is) superior to VHS - if it was so bad then why do television news departments use it for onsite work? It was marketing that stifled Beta, JVC happened to own (or was the major shareholder of) the largest video rental chain at the time. Therefore they pushed VHS onto the great unknowledgeable.

Arrgh, I’m sick of people spreading this misconception. It’s Betacam that TV studios use. Same cassette size, same tape (different tape for Betacam SP onwards), much faster tape speed. If a VHS deck whipped through an entire VHS cassette in 30 minutes (the playing time of a small Betacam cassette) it’d have professional quality too.

The main point about the whole Beta / VHS thing: Sony tried to be greedy and ram a format down third-party vendors’ throats while charging an arm and a leg for the licensing. The other vendors said two words to them and they weren’t “Happy Birthday”. This happened to IBM also when they tried to ram MCA down third-party vendors’ throats in the same way. Sony tried it again with the minidisc. Same results. Now we have Blow-Ray. And here we have Sony again, doing the same stupid BS. Some morons are not capable of learning, especially when it’s their corporate culture not to.

Blow-ray LOOOL :B

anyone here sick of hearing about blu crap hd-dvd who cares which one wins holographic is coming and thats when things will really get interesting

Never Happen. First off Network running computers in the home wont happen until like the year 3000, still to many rural people like me, and would you want to trust your data to a third party, remember, what man makes man breaks. So even if the data is encrypted, it can still be broken into. I can agree with some of it. What I would like to see, is a upgradeable hard drive based system based on mpeg 4 with about 2TB of hard drive space for storing movies, you go to the store, buy your disc, and load it in your player and put the disc in a wallet for safe keeping when the hard drive fails. People who make comments like you should know something about this stuff before you make your self look stupid like I have in the past, knowledge is power, and the more you know the more powerful you are, but is that power useful? Not most of the time, everything backfires. But knowing what you are discussing and what is going on in the world with technology is important to know before making a comment. Hard drives are at a limit now; it will be VERY hard to achieve 1TB on a 1-inch thick drive. So optical media and holographic media will be very important since optical based media doesn’t exactly have a limit, with an exception to size. Take for example. If we made a disc that can hold lets sat 10 terabytes, yes you read right terabytes. In an optical medium; lets say we need 50 TB of storage now, you can layer optical media with out gaining to much thickness if you preplan the storage capacity you will later require. With Magnetic media, this in not possible! So the future is holographic storage, and then particle based atomic storage, an idea I have ages ago, and this will be necessary with quantum computers. Technology is now at such an accelerated rate that it is now impossible to keep up! In any scenario the most possible winner will be Bluray based on capacity, Cause you all forget computers dominate the home, and computers are the future of home entertainment, so more storage the better, But people can fight to have the limitations of Bluray removed by not supporting either format! We need to stick with DVD for at least 5 more years until we know where we stand with computers in the home. And holographic storage is on the way, and going to a already obsolete format would be ridiculous. I look to the day I can store all my CD’s on 1 disc uncompressed with room to spare! Oh and as well as my movies!

HD-DVD will probably come out on top, the only reasons for that are. 1. Easy modification to production lines 2. Fast production and cheap 3. Cheaper than Blu-Ray (probably) 4. Easy to produce hardware for this And last of all. HD-DVD isn’t really a completly new technology it’s only a upgrade of the allready MEGA popular DVD format. In the end, just like with VHS and BETAmax wars, the consumer will decide what he wants. And it looks like HD-DVD will have a lot of advantaget on the aspects CONSUMERS care about. No matter what technology wins this battle I hope that there will be ONE format, and not multiple ones AGAIN :confused:

what do we do if its a draw 50/50? What if the war is even and no lead, but 50/50 of the market? I DONT WANT MULTIFORMATS! this ± things Pi**es me OFF!