Best 'topping' on taiyos

vbimport

#1

hey you all!

a quick question about the best coating of taiyo yuden cd-rs.

by being best i mean wich is the ‘hardest’ , thickest, longer lasting… [printable is fine, just tell me which one is ‘stronger’]

here is a link to a site that sells 6 different ty cd-rs

Silver Lacquer
Thermal White
Thermal Platinum
Everest White
Inkjet Silver
Inkjet White

so i really hope you know what i mean

thanks


#2

Originally posted by mkteku

by being best i mean wich is the ‘hardest’ , thickest, longer lasting…
[printable is fine, just tell me which one is ‘stronger’]

All it depends on what your real needs are, the media specifications are there for you.
I mean if you’re not going to print on those, then there’re much cheaper suppliers, as e.g. Rima.com.

The top coating should not have any impact on the longevity/recording quality of media.


#3

…The data is STORED on the TOP layer. So yes it does affect longevity. Having silver tops that collect fingerprints and miniscule particles of dust isn’t good. Having silkscreened or thermal discs is good, and allows dirt/dust to fall off or be brushed off without scratces. Human oils also don’t ‘stick’ really, they can be wiped off much easier.


#4

Originally posted by sat985

…The data is STORED on the TOP layer.
No comments.


#5

What do you mean “no comments”? Is it true that data is stored on the top layer or not?


#6

Originally posted by infini

Is it true that data is stored on the top layer or not?
And what do you think ?


#7

I’ll take this one Bo…

No I won’t, its pointless. Do a search. You’ll understand what he means.


#8

Substrate

The polycarbonate disc is the basic component of a CD-R.
It has a very important role as the reader will notice when reading the section about the manufacturing process (molding).

Dye

The polycarbonate disc is covered by an organic dye where the information is stored.

The dye will decompose under the effects of the heat generated by a laser beam (wavelength of 780-790 nanometers).
The dye blackens under this effect and the information is created.

Gold or silver

A gold reflective layer is applied under a vacuum. The layer reflects the laser beam which reads the CD.
For economic reasons, silver has gradually replaced gold so as to reduce the cost of the end product as well as increase the reflectivity.
Nevertheless, CD-Rs with silver rather than gold layers have a shorter lifespan.

Lacquer

A layer of lacquer is applied to cover the gold completely. It goes beyond the edges and center of the disc in order to prevent any peeling (as the layer of gold tends to peel easily and humidity might therefore infiltrate).
This layer is baked under ultra-violet light for two seconds.

Protective layer

A resistant protective layer is applied to the lacquer which makes the medium impervious to scratches.

Printing

This is the final stage before the packaging.
It consists of printing graphic information onto the CD-R, such as manufacturer’s name, type of product, etc…


Data layer

In CD-R, the organic dye sandwiched between the polycarbonate substrate and the metalized reflective layer of the media.
CD-Recordable discs do not have any data on them until they are recorded.
Instead the recording laser selectively melts “pits” into the dye layer – but rather than burning holes in the dye, it simply melts it slightly, causing it to become non-translucent so the reading laser beam is refracted rather than reflected back to the reader’s sensors.
In pressed CDs, the data layer is part of the polycarbonate substrate, and is pressed into the top side of it by a “stamper” during the injection moulding process.


Originally posted by BoSkin

Blue dye ( recording layer ) on gold ( reflective layer ) looks green, on silver - blue.




#9

I’m also debating between the $28 no top layer (silver) and the $38 ‘printable’ layer TYs

because I’m thinking a) will one last longer, avoid problems and be easier to clean than the other? and

b) can I write to the ‘printable’ ones with a marker better than the other?


#10

Boskin, why go through all that trouble? the data is on the top technically. u scratch the protective layer, its dead. u scratch the bottom its not dead. simple:D

thats why its good to have good protection on the top. so i guess the thermal ones r the best if like someone said.


#11

Originally posted by cd pirate

the data is on the top technically.
Pls read carefully where the data is.
Why scratch the protective layer ?


#12

Let me see if I can help communicate the poster’s original question since I’m interested in knowing the answer myself:

First, we need to clear up the confusion as to what are the layers above the reflective layer. i.e. if we look at Boskin’s post with the diagrams:

[ol]
[li]The worded explanation at the beginning says there is a lacquer layer and then a protective layer on top of the lacquer.
[/li][li]Then the 2 diagrams right below it shows only the protective layer without any lacquer.
[/li][li]Then the bottom diagram says that the protective layer is the lacquer.
[/li][/ol]

Here’s my first stab at guessing what’s going on, based on more time spent scouring posts and webpages than I care to admit to. :bigsmile: I’d appreciate any corrections:

[ol]
[li]“Silver Lacquer”: Lacquer is clear so the “silver” isn’t actually referring to the lacquer. It’s just the silver reflective layer that you see underneath it. In this case, there is just the laquer layer and therefore no additional protective layer on top of it. Same reasoning for “Gold Lacquer” like the one sold by MAM. It’s the same clear lacquer, but it’s “gold” only because you’re looking at the gold reflective layer underneath.
[/li][li]“Thermal”, “Inkjet”, and “Everest”: These are coating types specialized for their respective printer types. I have not been able to find any info stating that it’s applied on top of a lacquer, so I’m concluding that these coatings are used instead of lacquer.
[/li][li]For these printable types, Silver and White appear to be the two popular “colors” that they come in.
[/li][li]Some branded discs use a silkscreen pattern on top of the lacquer layer. I haven’t found much on how well this helps increase resistance to abuse. From personal experience (i.e. Maxell CD-R Pro), it seems to do a good job at least against fingerprints and dust. However, I believe the true main purpose of the silkscreen is just for decoration.
[/li][li]Discs that truly have a layer on top of the lacquer for the sake of protection against physical abuse are rare if not nonexistent. Kodak’s Ultima was my favorite since they added a hard resin layer specifically for that purpose. Unfortunately they have gotten out of the business so you can’t buy them anymore. :sad:
[/li][/ol]

So basically there are at least 8 main kinds of coatings available in the industry: Lacquer-only, Lacquer+silkscreen, InkjetSilver, InkjetWhite, ThermalSilver, ThermalWhite, EverestSilver, and EverestWhite.

So the question is: Putting the specific printer types aside, which coating type stands up to the most abuse? If you have butterfingers like me, there’s a concern about taking a disc with valuable data and accidentally dropping/scratching/etc…, then which type of coating would you feel the most comfortable with?

Here are some thoughts: Again, I’m open to corrections as these are just first guesses to get the discussion going:

[ol]
[li]Lacquer-only is probably the most vulnerable to abuse and so if you’re looking for a “tough” disc, stay away from this type. However, it’s the cheapest type so if you think that your discs will always be treated gently, it’s the best choice budget-wise
[/li][li]The discs intended for printers probably are tougher than the lacquer because they have to be designed to withstand a print head running across it. Therefore, which type of printer puts the most stress on the surface? I think thermal heads are made of soft rubber, so they probably don’t test the surface that much. Inkjet nozzles actually don’t make any contact at all, but I think the hard plastic guides on the cartrige do. I don’t know enough about Everest printers to comment.
[/li][li]I have not been able to find any data on whether the color of the printable coating (white versus silver) has any bearing on the strength of it. The white one does sort of “look” more like a hard resin (OK, I know that’s not very scientific :bigsmile: )
[/li][/ol]

Therefore, based on my limited information to date, I’d be inclined to go with a white inkjet coating. Sharpies seem to work just fine on them, too.


#13

He is stating what if it get’s scratched. If it happens to be scratched the disc is now a coaster. Where as if a bottom of the disc is scratched it can still play or just be repaired (buffed).

I would go with anyone that has a coating if your scared of the silver being scratched or damaged in anyway. I know myself I have had many peal on me. So I only use discs that have a coating over the silver now.


#14

He is stating what if it get’s scratched.

I think the poster does understand that a top scratch means the disc is history. That’s why he’s asking which types of coatings are the most resistant to it.

So I only use discs that have a coating over the silver now.

Hey, cool; so we can ask YOU the question! :bigsmile:
What’s your favorite type of “coating” over the silver?


#15

TYs Ceramic coat is the best…
Its the one wich is most scrach proof and also strong against finger prints


#16

I haven’t seen anything on sale explicitly described as “ceramic” TY’s… Is that the same as the white inkjet?


#17

I only found an old picture of them (16X) but they are still made and 48x is available (design changed a little).
http://www.2style.net/yaki/cdr2/ceraco.html
these are not printable.


#18

Wow, that stuff looks great. Too bad it’s not readily available in the US :frowning:

I did go back and look through the specs on the Maxell CD-R Pros that I have. It looks like they do indeed have a protective layer specifically for scratch protection, but they were short on any details as to what it was.
http://www.maxellus.com/content/pdfs/19.pdf

The ATIP on this product shows TY, so it’s quite possible that there is a layer of ceramic under that silkscreen (wishful thinking?).

Thanks for the info.


#19

Surprisingly, the spindle packaging is more eloquent than the PDF specs, though the protective layers’ actual composition still remains a mystery.



#20

TYs THATS Audio CD-R line is also Ceramic coated.
THATS DVD-R and +R are also available in Ceramic Coating editon.