Best cd recorder for audio cd´s

vbimport

#1

Hi,

just bought a new very good (and expensive) stereo system and i wonder what is the best PC cd recorder for audio cd´s? Plextor Premium 2 perhaps?

My cd player only accepts wave format or cd-da.

Thanks


#2

There is no best CD recorder, that is they all do well on good media, so the thing you should worry about is getting good quality media, e.g.:

Get brands like these:

  • Verbatim
  • TDK
  • Sony
  • Philips

Avoid no brand ones.


#3

That´s what i thought because i goggled about this and didn´t found nothing.

I already use Sony , TDK and Verbatim media.

I tried once an audio cdr from TDK and i liked the sound better than non audio media but it´s more expensive. I recorded this media in a PC cd recorder


#4

I would like to know more opinions on these matter like what are the vantages of Plextor Premium 2 in therms of audio cd´s?

Because if there is some difference is better to know now while i still have the money :slight_smile:


#5

Welcome to the forum :slight_smile:

I don’t know about the Plextor Premiums (never been lucky enough to own one), but in general I’ve found NEC-chipset Optiarc (and NEC drives before them) to be good audio CD burners. :slight_smile:

I don’t bother with the audio CDRs - Taiyo Yuden CDRs would be my preferred discs, but avoiding no-name (or ultra-cheap) discs is a good idea, as Truman pointed out.

I also keep my audio burns between 16x-24x for best results. :slight_smile:


#6

I would like to try Taiyo Yuden CDRs but in my country i cant find them, maybe they are in brands like Sony, TDK etc. you guys know more?


#7

[QUOTE=Plextorpremium;2466686]I would like to try Taiyo Yuden CDRs but in my country i cant find them, maybe they are in brands like Sony, TDK etc. you guys know more?[/QUOTE] Which country would that be?

You may be able to find Taiyo Yuden CD-R media branded as “JVC” or as “Verbatim Pastel” (but not just any Verbatim - they have to be Pastel), or in some countries as “That’s” media.


#8

I live in Portugal, here Taiyo Yuden cdr just Plextor (expensive) brand i think.


#9

[QUOTE=Plextorpremium;2466705]I live in Portugal, here Taiyo Yuden cdr just Plextor (expensive) brand i think.[/QUOTE] Plextor is indeed Taiyo Yuden, but you’d be lucky to find any old stock, since Plextor has exited the blank meda business.

You can buy JVC CD-R media made by Taiyo Yuden from some European on-line shops that ship to Portugal. Here are a few choices:

Opirata

Nierle: 100pc 50pc 25pc Watershield

Xmediatrade

There are also others.


#10

Very good shops you indicated
If TY is the best media i think i will buy some, how about this gold TY http://www.opirata.com/taiyo-yuden-700mb80min-thermogold-prism-bulk-cell-p-2552.html it´s worth the stretch in therms of audio quality?


#11

[QUOTE=Plextorpremium;2467400]If TY is the best media i think i will buy some, how about this gold TY http://www.opirata.com/taiyo-yuden-700mb80min-thermogold-prism-bulk-cell-p-2552.html it´s worth the stretch in therms of audio quality?[/QUOTE] I doubt the gold will improve quality in any way, but it does look very nice!


#12

It certainly looks nice and even if doest improve audio quality it will improve your ego :rolleyes:

How about audio cd-r, i read that they are just for standalone recorders and that just the code of the media changes is this true?

By the way it seems that the world lost interest in these standalone recorders, company’s eg. Marantz used to have a few and now i found just one brand with one


#13

[QUOTE=Plextorpremium;2467526]How about audio cd-r, i read that they are just for standalone recorders and that just the code of the media changes is this true?[/QUOTE] The special Audio CD-R for standalone recorders are not better than normal CD-R media, except that they contain a code enabling them to be used in standalone recorders. This code proves to the recorder that a special levy has been paid on the CD-R, and consumer standalone recorders are supposed to refuse to record on any CD-R not containg such a code.


#14

Thanks !


#15

Find Taiyo Yuden in Moscow (Russia) even harder than in Europe!
So I usually get some on japanese Yahoo auction.
And there you can buy even Yamaha CRW-F1 (used or new) with shipping.

Seems to be the [B]very[/B] best CD recorder.
Plextor Premium can burn audio cd only on 4x with larger 1.4 m/s sectors to increase sound quality and disc life.
Yamaha do it also on 1x and 8x.
8x even lower jitter on nowadays hi-speed blank CD-Rs.

I think this is the best choise ever.


#16

Here are a few of my findings regarding quality music recording on CD-Rs. Many will disagree, but I’m absolutely sure of what I’m saying as I have repeatedly confirmed these things over many years. However, I don’t have a technical explanation for these things.

  1. Each burner has a sound signature of it’s own. Some burn better sounding CD-Rs that the others, at least in the CD players I have tried (better means mainly more detailed, but there are also tonal differences, etc; I’m not talking here about C1 &C2 errors, jitter, beta or other such measurements). Of the ones I have tried the best were an old Yamaha (24x I think) burning at 1x, even 48x or 52x rated media, a Plextor 5224 and a Sony but I don’t know the model (I cannot rank these three as I haven’t done a comparison burning the same audio image with them). My Philips 4824 is worse than any of them but better than my Plextor Premium (!! - yes, it was a big and unpleasant surprise for me too). Somewhere around the quality of the Philips was a Teac 52x, perhaps more detailed but brighter sounding, I’m not sure which I would prefer. All the DVD burners I’ve tried (a Philips, an LG and two Liteon’s) were much worse than any of the above. All burners were IDE internals except for a SATA Liteon used with a USB adapter.

  2. Burning with negative Gigarec on my Plextor improved the sound, especially the subjective impression of dynamics and and speed, but its tonal signature remained mainly the same (perhaps bass got punchier, I don’t remember for sure). Still, at the highest negative Gigarec setting which is 0.6, which resulted in CDs that my player did not like that much (sometimes skipped a bit) the sound of the Philips was overall better. Yamaha F1 and Plextor Premium2 are using the same technology as this negative Gigarec.

  3. How rigid is the physical support of the writer does matter, as well as having a weight on top. I’ve tried burning with the writer on a table next to the computer unit and the result is similar, but if I place a weight such as a rather heavy book on top of it, or if I put it on a pillow and the pillow on the table (= soft physical support), the results are much worse. So back they (the writers) went inside the main computer unit.

  4. The CD-R brand does not matter for the sound, and I’m almost sure the speed doesn’t matter either, at least for 4x or higher speed. I was 90+% sure there is no difference at all between a 4x and a 24x recording on good equipment and, I dare say, with good ears. If there was any, the 24x might, just might have been a tad more dynamic, but I doubt it. I haven’t tired this lately, though. As a side note, the better brands and lower speeds do measure consistently better and might give better durability in time. On the other hand…

  5. The type of dye is significant. I’m not sure about Azo, but Cyanine (as used in the Taiyo Yuden CD-Rs) sounds worse (thicker, bassier, less detailed and transparent) than Phtalocyanine (used by almost every other brand). I have also tried a black Memorex once and I think it was just or about just the same as the normally colored phtalocyanine based one. I must add here that I haven’t heard any recorded CD-R that could approach the sound quality of the pressed CDs!

  6. I haven’t tried any dedicated special high quality yada yada power supply for the burners, but I doubt it would change things very much. Also, I have only checked the results on three CD players none of which was more expensive than ~300 Euro, but again I don’t think a better CD player would change these results.

  7. The burning software doesn’t seem to matter. The information recorded on the discs is the same, so you could take a “worse” sounding precious recording, copy it on the HD and then burn it “better” (say with a different burner, or on phtalocyanine based CD-R instead on the cyanine one) and it will sound better. I have tried burning --> ripping --> burning–> ripping etc. for 10 times and the 10th copy was identical to the first.

Perhaps the most puzzling discovery for me was that my Premium recorded obviously worse that a lower ranked Plextor, a 5224, especially considering that I think i read somewhere that the Premium was just the 5224 with some added features and higher price - I might be wrong though. This is why I think there could also be differences between manufacturing batches, for example 2006 made Premiums could be better or worse that 2003 made ones. If this is true, it makes buying a good sounding CD writer even more of a lottery.

So in the light of the above, if I would have to choose “blind” I would go for the Yamaha F1 and try to get some rather good Phtalocyanine CD-Rs. I would experiment with the “AMQR” of the Yamaha and burn at the lowest speed available.

Somehow, I’m also hoping somebody could read my lengthy report and reply with some technical explanations, I would really like to know why I’m hearing what I’m hearing (of which I don’t doubt at all, let me stress this once again). But please, try for yourself before saying “this is theoretically impossible” or such.


#17

Well I read your lengthy and subjective post and all I can say is that, perhaps like your screen name suggests, you are ‘Tilting at Windmills’. As far as I’ve read bits is bits and as long as they’re copied correctly there is no sonic difference between them.


#18

[QUOTE=olyteddy;2521284] As far as I’ve read bits is bits and as long as they’re copied correctly there is no sonic difference between them.[/QUOTE]

I appreciate that you read my post, but please, don’t skip my last phrase…:wink:


#19

Well as I said:

bits is bits and as long as they’re copied correctly there is no sonic difference between them

and you said:

Somehow, I’m also hoping somebody could read my lengthy report and reply with some technical explanations, I would really like to know why I’m hearing what I’m hearing (of which I don’t doubt at all, let me stress this once again). But please, try for yourself before saying “this is theoretically impossible” or such.

So I might suggest the ‘Placebo Effect’ as being the cause.


#20

You also said “As far as I’ve read…” which suggests that you are only speculating - or inferring, if you prefer - that what I’m hearing is not real. Let me say a couple of things about the placebo explanation.

  1. I’m a psychologist and I’m not totally unfamiliar with placebo. It must be fueled by ones’ beliefs (even if unconscious ones), which does not fit my discoveries that Philips>Plextor Premium (I was sure it would be the other way around and I even tried hard to convince myself I haven’t paid triple the amount of money on a worse burner), that Plextor 5224 > Plextor Premium, that any phtalocyanine based CD-R > Taiyo Yuden cyanine based CD-Rs (again I was expecting the opposite), that any junk CD-R = any great CD-R as long as the dye is the same, that 4x recording does not sound better that 24x etc. All in terms of audio quality. In all these examples my initial belief and my subsequent finding were opposite, and I very much doubt my unconscious belief was the opposite of my conscious one. Nor is a placebo effect likely to resist years of experimentation without contradictory results from time to time - unless I’m the victim of a secret kind of long lasting all enduring hypnotic suggestion. :eek:

  2. The Yamaha’s AMQR, now borrowed by Plextor for their Premium2, is being said to improve the sound quality on the Plextor’s very [U]website[/U]:

Users can create studio-quality audio masters that not only [B][U]sound better[/U][/B], but can also increase the life span of their valuable recordings. In addition to reducing jitter…
As you can see, there’s not only “bits are bits” but there is also jitter and how can you be sure there cannot be some other factors as well? Such as the admittedly hard to believe supposition I read a while ago that the “ugly” written CD-Rs put more stress on the CD player’s transport which in turn induces (through the power supply) more noise into the audio circuit. OK, perhaps this is not plausible, but have you even considered there may be other such variables involved as well?