Best CD-R burner for PC Engine CD games?

vbimport

#1

Hello all,

I own a pc engine with CD-ROM2 attachment for playing PC Engine CD games. Many of these games are extremely rare and are getting up in price, so to protect my original copies from damage (these drives are known to wear down since it’s been many years and cause scratching to the disks) I’d like to instead play some copied games instead.

My main issue is that with my current burner I am getting poor results in my games. Excessive load times, graphical and sound glitches, this keeps happening to my burned games.

My burner is a Asus DRW-24B1ST and I am using Verbatim 700MB CD-Rs.

Something to note is that these games were printed onto 650mb disks at their time, if that makes any difference? Here is a quote from online I found:

"the problem with 700MB CD-Rs is that the spiral of data on them is more tightly spaced than on 650MB CD-Rs … that’s how the extra data fits in a disc that’s the same physical size.

The old consoles were never designed to deal with CDs like that … so you’re pushing them to the limits of what they can read, and that’s never good with 25-year-old technology."

Does this make sense? I’ve also seen a lot of discussion online on speeds at which to burn these game images. I commonly see advice to burn at 4x or 8x speed, but you take about 5 minutes looking through this forum and you’ll find right away that the consensus is that burn speeds do not matter, the media and burner do.

I also recall that the way tracks are written on these disks are different in some way in how the data/audio switch back and forth- or something like that.

OK so with all that in mind what do you guys think makes sense in terms of what media I should be use? What burner? Thanks!


#2

Some games have secureROM and some you just can’t copy the originals. And some requires the Original media as it checks for copies and if you load a copy it stops working. So there isn’t a real way to bypass this as opposed to DVD/BD movie backup. The media isn’t the problem it is how they encoded the game disc to protect it with different types of protection that it is almost next to impossible to backup the game itself. I’ve used CloneCD along with Anydvd HD to backup some of old games in the past but haven’t done it in some time. Most older games fit on CD to DVD SL or DL layers on some bigger games. If you can at least tell us some of the older games others reading could give you more pointers.


#3

[QUOTE=coolcolors;2761937]Some games have secureROM and some you just can’t copy the originals. And some requires the Original media as it checks for copies and if you load a copy it stops working. So there isn’t a real way to bypass this as opposed to DVD/BD movie backup. The media isn’t the problem it is how they encoded the game disc to protect it with different types of protection that it is almost next to impossible to backup the game itself. I’ve used CloneCD along with Anydvd HD to backup some of old games in the past but haven’t done it in some time. Most older games fit on CD to DVD SL or DL layers on some bigger games. If you can at least tell us some of the older games others reading could give you more pointers.[/QUOTE]

No security on these disks, this CD games from 1988 area.


#4

You can still buy 650mb CD-R discs. I’ve not tried them, so I cannot personally vouch for them:

http://www.mediamegamall.com/cd-cdr-c-29_36_86.html?filter=Capacity~650MB

I’m sure they are available elsewhere, and can be found via Google.

As for the best cd writer for this type of disc…I’m not qualified to answer that one. One of the drive experts will probably show up to help. I’ll let Albert know you need some help.


#5

[QUOTE=Kerry56;2761943]You can still buy 650mb CD-R discs. I’ve not tried them, so I cannot personally vouch for them:

http://www.mediamegamall.com/cd-cdr-c-29_36_86.html?filter=Capacity~650MB

I’m sure they are available elsewhere, and can be found via Google.

As for the best cd writer for this type of disc…I’m not qualified to answer that one. One of the drive experts will probably show up to help. I’ll let Albert know you need some help.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the link. Do you know if there truly is a fundamental difference between 700mb and 650mb disks? (IE track sizes?). Do you think this would really have an effect? From the research I’ve done I feel a lot of assumptions/gut decisions are being made by people who vouch for one way vs another (650mb vs 700mb being fine).

Would appreciate anyone’s thoughts on that. Also thank you for referring someone who may help with the drive question!


#6

If the games are not copy-protected, there shouldn’t be any real difficulty copying them successfully and it shouldn’t make any real difference whether you use 650 mb or 700 mb blanks.

The issue may well be the reading/writing quality of your burner.

I suggest that you try again making the disc image at say 12x and then burning at say 8x.


#7

Phil, I think his main concern is that the ancient CD-rom peripheral for his gaming system may be very sensitive to the type of media used and the burning methods/speeds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TurboGrafx-16#TurboGrafx-CD

According to Wikipedia, it is the very first cd drive for a gaming system.

The only real difference between the 650 and 700mb discs that I know of is the use of a tighter spiral pregroove in the larger capacity discs, which enables the increase in data storage.


#8

Beyond going ahead and trying the slower speed this time around, and beyond trying a dedicated 650 MB disc, you’re left with the option of trying a higher-quality 700 MB media, or trying a different drive. Or both.

Reason for suggesting higher-quality media: Burned discs are harder to read due to less overall reflectivity. Lower quality discs might have poor reflectivity. You say you have Verbatim media; do you know the ATIP for the disc (which would indicate which disc model it is)? And do you still have the packaging & can tell us the country of origin (“Made in…”)?

Reason for suggesting a different drive: I don’t know which version of the 24B1ST you have, and I don’t know how well it writes CD-R. I don’t have a newer drive in mind to recommend to you, and in fact I’d end up recommending an older drive should the above options not work.


#9

[QUOTE=Kerry56;2761947]Phil, I think his main concern is that the ancient CD-rom peripheral for his gaming system may be very sensitive to the type of media used and the burning methods/speeds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TurboGrafx-16#TurboGrafx-CD

According to Wikipedia, it is the very first cd drive for a gaming system.

The only real difference between the 650 and 700mb discs that I know of is the use of a tighter spiral pregroove in the larger capacity discs, which enables the increase in data storage.[/QUOTE]
It may well be but my experience with Asus drives back in the days when I made regular back-up copies of various games was that the cdr write quality, particularly at high speeds, was suspect. Often the copy protection module was defeated but there were glitches of the type that Koop described in his original post.

[The same was NOT the case when the cdr was burnt with my Lite-on drive (at any speed) as the cd write quality of that drive was significantly better than that of my Asus drive.


#10

[QUOTE=philamber;2761954]It may well be but my experience with Asus drives back in the days when I made regular back-up copies of various games was that the cdr write quality, particularly at high speeds, was suspect.[/QUOTE]

I am curious if my drive is really just not up to par. The minimum burn speed is 32x. I would gladly pick up a better/different drive but I do not know what would work best for my situation.

I’ve heard people tell me they burn games on 700 mb disks and they play no problem (on Verbatim disks as well). For the sake of specificity, these are the exact disks I am using http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003ZDNZSI

Thanks so far for the thought put into this guys.


#11

If you want to burn CD-Rs with good quality, you will probably want to look for either on older Plextor DVDRW (e.g. PX-716/755/760-series), a Pioneer BDC/BDR or any NEC-chipped drive (e.g. Pioneer DVR 17-series or earlier except 13/14 or NEC/Sony/Optiarc). None of today’s DVDRW dirves are IMO ‘great’ at CD burning.


#12

[QUOTE=terminalvelocd;2761974]If you want to burn CD-Rs with good quality, you will probably want to look for either on older Plextor DVDRW (e.g. PX-716/755/760-series), a Pioneer BDC/BDR or any NEC-chipped drive (e.g. Pioneer DVR 17-series or earlier except 13/14 or NEC/Sony/Optiarc). None of today’s DVDRW dirves are IMO ‘great’ at CD burning.[/QUOTE]

Any idea where I could find said older drives? If you had to pick one as ‘the best’ which would you personally go with?


#13

Its easy to find older drives on ebay. The last pure DVD drive I got was a Sony Optiarc 7200s, which was always very well regarded for DVD burns, but I don’t know how well they do with CD’s, since I’ve just about stopped doing any scans of discs.

This drive uses a SATA interface, like all modern drives. Many of the older drives use the obsolete IDE connections. Make sure your computer is capable of using the drive you purchase, since IDE connections do not come with modern computers anymore, though you could get an add-on card if absolutely necessary. Its just easier to choose a SATA drive for a modern computer, like the Optiarc 7200S or the Pioneer 215/216, or a modern Pioneer Blu-ray burner, like the BDR-207. The Blu-ray burners will be fairly expensive, but readily found at retailers like Newegg or Amazon.


#14

[QUOTE=Kerry56;2762005]Its easy to find older drives on ebay. The last pure DVD drive I got was a Sony Optiarc 7200s, which was always very well regarded for DVD burns, but I don’t know how well they do with CD’s, since I’ve just about stopped doing any scans of discs.

This drive uses a SATA interface, like all modern drives. Many of the older drives use the obsolete IDE connections. Make sure your computer is capable of using the drive you purchase, since IDE connections do not come with modern computers anymore, though you could get an add-on card if absolutely necessary. Its just easier to choose a SATA drive for a modern computer, like the Optiarc 7200S or the Pioneer 215/216, or a modern Pioneer Blu-ray burner, like the BDR-207. The Blu-ray burners will be fairly expensive, but readily found at retailers like Newegg or Amazon.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I don’t mind the expensive, in fact I’d love to have a blu-ray drive, but high quality CD-R burns for this console is my main goal of course.

As for IDE vs SATA I’ll go whatever gets me the best quality drive I can figure out the rest.

Is there any big differences between the models terminal listed?


#15

The models terminalvelocd listed? For your purposes of burning CD’s, I’m not the best one to answer that question, as I haven’t paid as much attention to CD burning as many of the others around here.

But I doubt you’ll get an absolute, definitive answer that any particular drive is the supreme CD burner in the history of optical drives. Though ten years ago, you might have started a small war with the question.


#16

A Pioneer BD-RE (BDR-…) or CDRW/DVDRW/BD-ROM combo drive (BDC-…) would be easiest to obtain, and should offer maybe down to 16x or 8x on some CD-R. Write quality would be quite nice.

Everything else is older and has been out of production for some years:

Optiarc 5280/7280 and older have been out of production for at least a year, though only maybe the 5240/7240 and older -namely the 520x/524x/720x/724x- would be worthwhile.

Pioneer DVR-217 and older are multiple years old, and would be good for models 215/216/217 (the 11x drives are PATA, the 21x drives are SATA). DVR-212/112 (not to be confused with BDR-xyz) had problems where the CD functionality would fail early in life for some drives (no way to predict it), but were good otherwise. Current Pioneer BDR/BDC drives should match these for burning quality.

The Plextor drives mentioned by terminalvelocd are older than all the above drives, and would be hardest to find, but would allow you to try to fine-tune how the discs were burned (716SA/755SA/760SA - A is PATA, SA is SATA, U or UF is external - are the applicable DVDRW drives for this set of features. Their dedicated CD-RW drives with these features, the Premium and Premium 2, were PATA only, with external USB versions (Premium U) of equivalent capability). But these features didn’t always guarantee superior quality, and were typically only available for audio CD burning.

As Kerry said, it would be hard to say any of these is the best definitive CD burner, but you have options.


#17

Actually, the Pioneer DVR/BDC/BDRs allow as low as 4X writing to CD-Rs. The burn quality is very good indeed with low C1 and jitter with most types of CD-Rs.

Optiarc 5280/7280 and older have been out of production for at least a year, though only maybe the 5240/7240 and older -namely the 520x/524x/720x/724x- would be worthwhile.

Even the Sony Optiarc AD-7280S is a good option. They can be readily found on eBay.


#18

Was using your suggestions guys and found this drive on newegg. Any opinions on the CD-R write quality? One thing I can’t seem to find is how low the burn speed settings can go.


#19

^That’s the current model Blu-ray burner from Pioneer, and one of the only models still available at retail that we’ve been recommending.

I don’t know about the BDR-209, but my BDR-207MBK shows CD burn speeds as low as 4x for Taiyo Yuden blank CD’s when burning with Imgburn. Poorer quality discs, like my CMC Magnetics made media with the 97m26s66f mid code, also show a low speed of 4x. I doubt there is much, if any, difference between these two burners regarding CD burn speeds.


#20

[QUOTE=Kerry56;2762050]^That’s the current model Blu-ray burner from Pioneer, and one of the only models still available at retail that we’ve been recommending.

I don’t know about the BDR-209, but my BDR-207MBK shows CD burn speeds as low as 4x for Taiyo Yuden blank CD’s when burning with Imgburn. Poorer quality discs, like my CMC Magnetics made media with the 97m26s66f mid code, also show a low speed of 4x. I doubt there is much, if any, difference between these two burners regarding CD burn speeds.[/QUOTE]

Are Taiyo Yuden disks generally considered the best CD-Rs? I see them mentioned a lot.