BenQ DW1620 and TY T03 DVD+R

Just received my Plextor TY T03 (TH000021 batch) discs today and started testing them right away on my BenQ DW1620. I was quite curious for the results as this drive is considered to be outdated.

I’ve always known my drive is an odd one, I have to scan CD-R’s at 16x or the amount of C1 errors goes up quickly towards the end of the disc (note: they are burned in another drive). And as I’ve discovered recently, this happens with DVD+R’s as well when I scan them at 16x (they are burned in the DW1620). Example:

You can also see that the amount of PIEs drops instantly when the reading speed decreases (yellow arrows). This prooves that there is a relation between reading speed and amount of errors. I never noticed this since my old version of CD-DVD Speed only allowed reading at 8x and everything looked good at that speed.

The problem I am now having with my new T03 discs is that this anomaly continues into the lower reading speeds. Instead of 16x, I’m now having this at 8x and even more extreme at 16x.

Here are the scans of a T03 in the following order, reading @ 1x, 4x, 4x (2nd scan), 8x, 16x:





Yes, this is one and the same disc. The last one is just absurd… Has anyone encountered something similar before? And how should I interpret the results? At 4x it seems like a pretty good burn!! But at 16x it looks like crap. Also notice the difference between the T02 and T03 scans, both at 16x.

Here is also a close-up of the last scan, notice that at the start there are peeks of up to 50 PIE every time the drive slows down.

A little help please. :slight_smile:

It’s the Jitter affect, soon as you get above 12 it takes a crap.

I wish we could have a cdspeed that had a jitter off/on option for Benq just to
see what the scan would look like without reporting jitter.

Didn’t expect to get a clear answer on what the problem is and certainly not so soon! I made a thread about the CD-R problem more than a year ago and nobody knew back then. :slight_smile:

What does this mean for my burns? Too much jitter? Should I keep scanning at 4x with the T03s then? And why is there a difference between T02/03?

A little more help please.

Scan at 8x , but burn at 12x.

Also try the latest firmware B7W9.

Somje reckon that as the T03 media is relatively new compared to T02 media that the write strategies haven’t been refined so much as for earlier media. B7W9 may help in this.

If you look at the Jitter trace (purple line in bottom window of scan), it shows an upward curve near the end of the 12x scan which corresponds with the PIE increase.

On the 16x scans, Jitter remains near or well above 12% for most of the scan, with a corresponding rise in the PIE rates.

Your drive seems quite sensitive to Jitter as even on your T02 scan, Jitter remains below the commonly quoted 12% threshold but you still have an elevated PIE graph after 2.5gig.

You should run Transfer Rate Tests on those discs at 16x to see if the high Jitter on those discs affects the reading speed. T03, like TYG03 can be inconsistent at the present, hopefully TY will solve the issues soon. (The batch of T03 I’m using at the moment is very mediocre for TY media).

This may help, my 1620 with B7W9 firmware burns good batches of T03 at 12x as good as my 1650 or Lite-ON 1635S.

To give you guys an idea, these are the sort of scans I usually get with T02 at 8x (burn AND read):


You should run Transfer Rate Tests on those discs at 16x to see if the high Jitter on those discs affects the reading speed.
Should I do a Transfer Rate Test on all my discs then? They probably all have the problem at some speed setting (CD-R and DVD+R).

Just updated the firmware, I’ll try some burns with it. I already did 2 new scans at 8x, here they are:


Looks a lot better at the end (but still a bit elevated). The only thing I have now is this peek at the beginning. And it differs in height every time I scan (at 8x):

I had this with my other T03 burns earlier today, but not with this one and the old fw. Probably also jitter-related?
If I remember correctly, jitter has to do with “lands” and “pits” right? So, my drive stumbles more and more over the lands when its speed increases and CD-DVD Speed ties the jitter to the errors?

Should I adjust to a reading speed that keeps the jitter down then? 8x for T02 and 4x for T03. Btw, I always burn at 8x. :slight_smile:

And for the fun of it, I’ll throw in an old CD-R scan, written in a Plextor 40x at 16x:

Just a 16x TRT (Transfer Rate Test) on those discs you posted should be enough. If you have another drive to do the TRT on, it is better to use that, otherwise the BenQ 1620 will do.

Are the new scans you posted of the same discs you posted before or new discs?

You can ignore that spike as I think it is just a bug in firmware or CD-DVD speed, other drives will likely not show such a spike when you scan those discs on them. I get similar spikes on my BenQ 1620 with B7W9 firmware.

No, I personally wouldn’t as if your disc shows increased Jitter problems at the standard scanning speed of 8x, then the disc is at fault, not your drive. The new scans you have posted are at 8x and for good discs, show no high Jitter so your drive is unlikely to be faulty. You may want to try 12x for the T03, the 1620 should burn them fine at that speed.

Here it is (I only have one DVD writer):

Are the new scans you posted of the same discs you posted before or new discs?
All discs labeled “The Matrix 1-3” are one and the same.

You can ignore that spike as I think it is just a bug in firmware or CD-DVD speed, other drives will likely not show such a spike when you scan those discs on them. I get similar spikes on my BenQ 1620 with B7W9 firmware.
I’ve never had it with T02s though. I’ll scan some T02s with the new firmware as soon as I can.

No, I personally wouldn’t as if your disc shows increased Jitter problems at the standard scanning speed of 8x, then the disc is at fault, not your drive. The new scans you have posted are at 8x and for good discs, show no high Jitter so your drive is unlikely to be faulty. You may want to try 12x for the T03, the 1620 should burn them fine at that speed.
The problem is that it’s just the same disc as above. :slight_smile: So, which results (firmware) to trust…

Anyway, I think I burned this problem disc at 4x. And I had good T03 results with 8x and 16x before I wrote the disc above (apart from the spike at the start). This one was burned at 8x:

I’ll test some more as soon as I find the time. Thanks for all the help so far guys! I’m starting to see the clear picture, sort of… :bigsmile:

If you use Nero Drivespeed (Part of Nero Toolkit), you should be able to force the BenQ to read the disc at 16x. I personally only rate as good discs which will TRT perfectly at 16x (as long as Quality Scan is ok too). If you have a DVD-ROM, you can do TRT with that.

Discs which are marginal can usually pass most tests at lower speeds, higher speed testing will more probably show up possible problems as it is more stressful for the disc.

Even better, just run firmware thrue MCSE tool, tick readspeed patch and reflash.
Nero DriveSpeed or CDBremse is more useful when you occasionally wanna read disc [I]slower[/I] or/and with silence (HT box).

Note, I haven’t tested if Nero DriveSpeed will work to increase read speed on non DVD-ROM discs.

I’ve tried Nero DriveSpeed but I can’t force 16x. I’m not ready yet to flash my drive with custom firmwares. I did some more tests however.

It seems the B7W9 firmware “improved” the jitter readings (and thus PIE levels) of all my DVD+R discs at their problematic reading speeds, as far as I can tell. The first picture I posted in this thread was of a T02 read @ 16x. Here is the worst result I can get NOW (out of 4 scans) with this disc, read at 16x with the B7W9 firmware:

The same thing happened with the “The Matrix 1-3” disc. Here is the worst result @ 8x (out of 4 scans):

The PIE levels in both are twice as good. So my question is, now that I get these “decent” scans with B7W9…is my disc okay after all?
I tried going back to B7V9 to see what happens but I get the same results now as with B7W9, with the exception of a T03 read @ 16x.

As for the spike at the start, its height is tied to the type of disc (T02 or T03) and reading speed. But there seems to be no relation between its height and jitter and is still somewhat random. T02s read at 16x show a random spike as well, but much lower than with T03 read at 8x.

Here are two interesting scans of a pressed DVD that confuse me a bit:


Even though the jitter is low, still the same “jitter effect”.
Oh right, and the B7W9 hasn’t helped improve the quality of my T03 burns at 8x so far…

Any more insights and suggestions are appreciated!

Scans are not generally done at 16x because they can show a lot more variability, while 8x on BenQ generally give repeatable results. So for Quality Scan, I would just do them at 8x and not worry too much about the 16x result.

The pressed DVD scans show that at even 8x, Jitter begins to rise after 4gig, 16x is same but more pronounced due to higher speed.

It would be better if you could perform some tests on another drive. I would recommend TRT on a reliable DVD-ROM drive. If your disc can pass that test at 16x, I wouldn’t worry too much about the strange 16x scans on your BenQ.

As I said before, the T03 I have burn best at 12x, try that speed to see if you get any improvements. Your T03 scans look perfectly acceptable now anyway, I would be happy with that burn quality.

The reason I posted it is because what I don’t understand is that even with the jitter so low at the end, the PIE graph rises. I would have thought that it had something to do with the amount of jitter. In the first T02 picture at least the jitter rises towards 12% as well…

It would be better if you could perform some tests on another drive. I would recommend TRT on a reliable DVD-ROM drive. If your disc can pass that test at 16x, I wouldn’t worry too much about the strange 16x scans on your BenQ.
I still have an old Creative 1243E 16x DVD-Rom drive, but I don’t think it’s that great of a drive.
I’ll think about flashing the BenQ with that readspead mod. Should I just continue checking discs in CD-DVD Speed at 8x as I’ve always done then or is it best to include a TRT with each disc as well?

As I said before, the T03 I have burn best at 12x, try that speed to see if you get any improvements.
I will definitely burn one at 12x later today! :iagree:

Without the ability to test on another drive which supports reliable Quality Scanning, it is hard to work out where the cause of the PIE rises is. PIE is less of a factor for me, if you see PIF clusters [B]or[/B] rising PIF, [I]that[/I] is more important.

As I said before , 16x QS is not recommended as the results are variable and may not necessarily reflect if a disc has problems or not. 16x TRT is generally a quite reliable test to detect potential problems.

I would try to test on another drive if possible, try a TRT on your creative DVD-ROM, Nero Drivespeed may support it if it reads too slowly. My Lite-ON 163 DVD-ROM drive generally only read DVD-/+R discs at 8x for TRT but pressed discs could be read faster so the drive was capable of faster reading but seemed to be firmware limited for those types of discs.

Tested. :wink:
Sorry, unfortunately Nero DriveSpeed has no effect on 1620’s Transfer Rate Test when we are dealing with +R’s.

Sorry for the late reply, busy busy…

I managed to do a couple of more burns. It seems my BenQ likes burning @ 8x best. Going higher pushes the PIF levels up.

Even though 8x is the commonly accepted speed for scanning with this drive, I have a feeling the drive can’t handle T03 scanning @ 8x well. The scanning results are consistent up to 4x (haven’t tried 6x) and starting at 8x the PIE levels increase. So I guess I’ll be scanning at 4x and 8x from now on. :doh:

It feels as if the amount of errors of a T03 is a magnification of a T02 where the same scanning speed results in double the PIEs, so halving the speed results in about the same amount of PIEs on the two types of discs.

I haven’t been able to reproduce the elevation of PIEs at the end of the “The Matrix 1-3” disc @ 8x anymore. Probably installing the new firmware “fixed” this. Downgrading didn’t help either, the new firmware must have left something behind still.
Now all my T03 8x scanning results are about the same. I did quite a nice burn today (with respect to PIFs) which might be worth posting, so here it is (4x, 8x scanning):


As for the Creative drive, it’s really a piece of junk and it’s currently mounted in my standalone DVD-Player… Oh well, maybe if I ever get another drive I might be able to figure things out. :slight_smile: Replies are still welcome!

I believe this Yuden000-T03-000 media is very good media, but I also believe that the firmwares in mostly all the drives are not calibrated correctly to burn it right. I think we will have to wait for at least a couple of firmware revisions and then maybe we will be able to see the real end results.

Is it likely that the 1620 will receive another firmware update or should I be on the lookout for another drive to burn my T03s?