Bad Verbatim Media

Posted part of this in the CloneDVD forum, but thought this was also appropriate.

Purchased a 50pk spindle of Verbatim Branded Silver DVD+R 16X at Best Buy a while ago. Just started using them recently. Turns out that thus far, every single one of the six I’ve used thus far cannot be played in any player. Have used Verbatim, Imation, Maxell in the past with no issues. Had a few left-over Imations I found and recorded exact same content on them - played perfectly. BTW, also have recording speed set to 2x and didn’t change that. Stamped codes on the media include:

PAPA02KA21190634 2
PAPA02KA21190633 1
PAPA02KA21190636 4
PAPA02KA21190747 3
PAPA02KA21190746 2


You haven’t specified whether you’re using a Burner or a stand alone Recorder for these discs. And if you [I]are[/I] using a Burner, you need to specify the exact make and model.

Have you even made sure that these discs have been booktyped (or finalised)?

You shouldn’t really be burning a 16x speed disc at 2x speed. You’re causing yourself a whole lot of bother by going down that road.

Could you post the following information if possible.

Used drive.
Transfer rate of one of the problematic disc.
CD speed disc quality scan (prefered on Benq or Lite on but samsung is also ok) or Plextools scan.(Incase of plextools, errors and jitter/beta)

One other question
Are the imation’s also +R ?

Even NEC and Pio scans are better than nothing :iagree:

To add one thing to this: The make and model of the standalone you are trying to play them on.

OK, I’m not at home so I don’t have ALL the details. However…

Reader is Lite-On SOHW-812S
Writer is Sony DRU-700A

Imation media is in fact DVD+R

Settings for AnyDVD and CloneDVD2 have not changed whatsoever. Have been using the products for well over 2 years on the same exact equipment, constantly updating as app updates become available.

Players include: Sony, Toshiba, Phillips (don’t have the model #s handy but all experience the exact same symptoms.

As for burning 16x media at 2x, I respectfully disagree. I have had exponentially lower issues after specifying a lower burn speed.

I’ll try to find some time in the next couple days to analyze one of the Verbatim DVD+Rs.

You could scan with the Litey at 4x read/scan speed.

Yes, lower burn speeds MAY be good, but high speed media is optimized for high speed burning. It may be better with 12x or 8x but surely NOT with 2x. Most drives’ low speed strategies are not optimized and may cause trouble.

Interesting comment about the burn speed. I’m not saying that you’re not right. However, the Sony DRU-700A is only capable of 8x max burn speeds for DVD+R and 2.4X for DL. I kept saying I’m at 2x but technically it’s set to 2-2.4x so I suppose it’s 2.4x really.

After significant testing (prior to this) I found the following results.

First of all, I reduced the media size about 100k in order to avoid the outer edges of media - that was giving me some problems I believe related to variability in media effectiveness at the outer edges.

Second, time after time when backing up relatively large titles (requiring compression of anything under about 85%) I found that limiting the burn speed to 2-2.4x yielded way more success - specifically when using both 8x and 16x media.

Any thoughts as to holes in my assumptions? I sure don’t know everything about how this works way under the hood, but…

Nothing but security patches (XP Pro) and AnyDVD/CloneDVD2 patches applied to the system. No new hardware or software other than that.

A good burn is the result of Good media + Good burner + The appropriate firmware for the media.
I was used to say that slower was better, but that was 5 years ago. In my experience, MCC04 media burns better at 8x or 12x than 4X (I have seen the same in other 16X media: CMC, Prodisk). I used to burned at 2X back in 2001-2002 but I was burning Apple media rated at 2X and 4X.
You said you have used other media without any problems but you don’t mention the rated speed of such media or its MID.
Could it be that your burner (which is 2 1/2 years old) cannot handle 16 X media or doesn’t have the appropriate firmeware to do so?

Regarding your Imation media, it could be CMC, MBI or even MCC.
The quick fix would be to buy 4X or 8X media and burn it at 2X (as you have been doing), or buy a new burner.


Nuh-uh. :disagree:
Burn media at its rated speed.

IMO that depends on the media and how it performs with your burner/firmware combination.

Rated speed doesn’t always work well…especially with 16x media.

I personally have taken a leaf out of Drage’s book, and burn most of my stuff at 8x. :slight_smile:

But you know, whatever works best for you :wink:

Why do ppl get stubborn over stupid slow speeds.

The disc will burn crap at the edge in a high speed disk at 2x becuase the dye would change in thickness etc towards the edge to make 16x writing possible.

Try burn at 8x. If that doesn’t work, we’ll take it from there but at the moment the 2.4x burning could definitely be causing some major issues.

My Sony DRU 700A & DRU 710A were dead after 5 months I purchased them and hmmmm it was about 2 1/2 years ago. :rolleyes:

Well, I said that was the quick solution.
Winpitt believes that he has less “issues” burning 16X media at 2X in a 3 year old burner. I disagree but instead of starting another “low speed vs. rated speed” argument I included links where he can learn that:

  1. the latest firmware for his burner was released in 2004 (more than likely it doesn’t have strategies for MMC04)
  2. Sony recommends 4X and 8X media for his burner.

I could have said “Go buy a Pioneer 111, a BenQ 1640 or one of the new Lite-ON burners. Also buy ONLY Taiyo Yuden 8X media and Verbatim 16x media. Burn at 8X.” But, if he is posting at CDFreaks, he probably has read this already and doesn’t want to explore outside of his comfort zone.

Guys (and gals),

I said I had successfully used the same Verbatim 16x DVD+R in the past with no issues on the same system, players, etc. Now with this bundle I have zero success. That’s why I posted.

I also said that I have documented proof that for me, burning at 2.4x yields better results than burning at 4x or 8x - in particular with larger titles requiring more compression - and particularly at the outer edges of the DVD+R. I’ve got both the coasters and the good DVDs to prove it. YMMV.

However, CD Pirate made an interesting comment with respect to the outer edges. Is there any real documented data showing dye variability on different areas of the media?

Bottom line here however is that the issues exist at the INSIDE of the DVD - right at the opening credits, even causing the player(s) to display an error code. As far as replacing the burner, the Sony has been working great with the exception of this spindle. I’d prefer to not replace it unless I have to.

you will be saving yourself a bunch of headaches if you just get a new burner, and as a bonus you will be able to use 8x or 12x and save a bunch of time too. burners are $30 these days, I’d recommend a liteon 6s, samsung 182, or pionner 111… acctually just about anything will burn better than your old 8x burner. what ever you get, don’t burn quality 16x media lower than 8x or you will get crappy results, the reason you are getting better results at 2x now is your drive does not support 16x media and is using a default stratedgy…an optimized strat makes all the difference in the world :wink: