Bad burns with 5 dif. 3520a



Well, Since I never got the bad block issues sorted out, I figured… i’d ignore it… It wasn’t not that big of a deal anyways…

I managed to burn 73 dvds (verbatim 8x +r), all with bad blocks of course… (at least when being scanned in the nec3520a)… pi/pif’s were ‘OK’ on them… but not excellent…

But then when I switched to 16x +r / 8x -r… everything fell apart, I’ve never had a burn fail during the burn process, it’s afterwards that I noticed the errors, etc… when scanning the dvds back I noticed that the last minutes of the dvd couldn’t be read… and pi/pif were REALLY high during some parts of the dvds… like beginning/end, which would explain why it’s not readable…

I’ve tried like 100’s of things now, including 12 dif. burners, new mobo/new psu/everything new, and it just won’t work… tried numerous software too… all from nero to recordmax 4.5… still no go… I’ve probably made around 500 verbatim coasters now… ANY help is appreciated.

(PS. I’ve only been using Verbatim media. DS.)


Change the media!


Have you tried:

  1. Burning the media on a different burner? Use someone else’s burner to test.
  2. Burning a different media on the 3520?


Yeah, I’ve tried some Platinum DVD+R’s too… and ALOT of dif. Verbatim media… also tried on my old Plextor 712A (which is broken now), on a benq 1620a and on a newly bought Pioneer 109… same crap there… also, tried in several computers that I have here with dif. setups… same issues :confused:

Also, how high can PI/PIFs be before the dvd is unusable? I’ve read ALOT about pi/pifs… but I’ can’t recall seeing anything about a treshhold… like… if I have an average of 0.03 PiFs with a few peaks @ 6-7… will that media hold my data for a few years? If treated well… at the right temperature and with no scratches/thumbprints or whatever… I’m only burning DVDs for backup, thus no movies or whatever. Just data.

A friend of mine burned some movies on some crap media (princo, duh) (old dvds, with scratches and thumbprints on them)… and when I checked those dvds in my benq 1620a, he had PIE above 2000, PiF above 50… and those dvds still read better than my newly burned verbatims that had pie around 10 and pif around 1-2 :stuck_out_tongue:


Switch to genuine Taiyo Yuden and stop wasting your money


shrugs It’s hard to get Tayio Yuden media without ordering overseas (here)… so it’s not really a cheap alternative… + Verbatim should be just as fine… after all, second to TY they’re supposed to be the best.


Anyways, if anyone has any ideas of computer-setup that’d be optimal for burning dvds, let me know… In the first box I have a nforce4 mobo (I’ve never used this box to burn on)… + One BENQ 1620a and one Px-116a dvd-rom… in the second box (burner box) I have a P4 mobo (changed twice)… it’s a MSI 865PE NEO2-V now… before it was an ASUS Microatx board… + a Nec 3520A with the latest official firmware and a lite-on dvd-rom, can’t remember model number… should be their latest one, anyways… + latest Nero…

Should I switch software? Add a controller-card + add discs to that and try burning from the c-card discs?.. Label me clueless… I need new ideas for things to try.


Your problems are most likely due to drive/firmware vs disc/speed incompatibility. The disc you are using just doesn’t burn reliable at the speed you are using with the Nec burner (your unit). Just use a lower speed, change media or change burner.

For optimal cd burning: almost any software will do (software does not affect the quality of the burning, unless a lot of huge buffer under runs happen).

Just put all your burners as Master drives on your ATA channel, don’t use over lengthy cables (try to stay below 45cm). Make sure the drives are properly jumpered as masters.

Use the standard Microsoft IDE driver (under Device Manager / IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers you should see Standard Dual Channel PCI Ide controller and Driver details should say “Microsoft 5.1.2600.2180” assuming you are running Win XP SP2). Beware that nForce and Intel chipset drivers can install their own (and always compliant) ATA drivers. You can use the “Roll back driver” to get back the standard MS driver in cases where chipset driver become active.

As for PIE/PIF error rates. They vary from drive to drive. The errors are not on the disc.They are errors made by the drive when it reads the disc. Different drives will read the same disc with a different number of errors.

So, when PIE/PIF amounts are very high (usually in several hundreds/several dozens) the disc becomes unreadable in the drive that reported that number of errors. This is “usually”, there are exceptions (due to various reasons).


Thanks alot for the reply…

It’s weird tho… I’ve never burned any of these dvds with higher speeds than the label said… (8x for the 8x ones, 12-16x for the 16x ones)… and the best results… that I’m getting now, are rather mediocre compared to the results most people here get when reading back the same kind of dvds with the same kind of drives.


Here’s one of my scans (not sure if this will work, hopefully it will)…

I know that one is supposed to scan at 8x, but scanning at 8x vs. maximum only gives a slight difference in the amount of errors, not the size of them… at least not on the dvds that I’ve scanned so far… anyways, here goes nothing…

Heh, and this is one of the ‘good’ burns… bleh… btw, if anyone has any idea why the pi goes up like that for like 10% -> 50% of the dvd, feel free to let me know :stuck_out_tongue:


Thats an excellent scan especially at high speed - try 5x speed. I wouldn’t complain about it.


Really? :stuck_out_tongue: When looking at what other people have posted here, it doesn’t look that nice… but then again, most of my burned DVDs don’t look that nice, sometimes the amount of pifs are up to 1100 or whatever…

Btw, what life span would you say these dvds would have? If held under the right conditions? (I never put abuse to my cds/dvds, no scratches/thumbprints or whatever… held in jewelcases, in a rather dark compartment) ;P…

My old dvds (verbatim 4x +r) burned on a px708a… around a year ago or so january 2004+… does NOT work today :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: when reading back most of them… I get cyclic redundancy check errors… and a bunch of bad block error(s) appear in the eventlog… and they aren’t scratched or whatever.


Here’s a few more scans…

This DVD is burned @ 16x… it would’ve been ok if it wasn’t for that spike there… I always get one single pi spike when burning at 16x, really weird… scanning at 5x/8x doesn’t help either, it just changes the size of the spike… and the spike’s don’t appear at the same place everytime either… sometimes it’s the beginning, sometimes near the end… sometimes in the middle.

If I burn at 12x, the pi/pif skyrockets, which is überweird… 8x gives the smoothest results… BUT… the pi amount is really high then, like 200k errors… with an average of 15-20 (no spikes)


Also, I tried some DVDs that I burned a week ago or so… on another nec drive, and they don’t work very well now… near the end of the dvd, it returns ‘no sense information’… and when scanning with neros ‘scandisc function’… it claims the last 5 blocks are bad (but only if i scan with the benq reader… not if i scan the same disc back in a dvd-rom/nec drive), weird huh?


Well, this kinda sucks… I was hoping that DVDs would be a nice way of creating temporary backups… that’d last at least for as long as the cd-roms used to last… but I guess that’s not the case :expressionless:

DVDs that look fine… but are completely worthless within weeks, hell… most of my cds, burned in the mid 90s, still work today… and whenever there’s trouble with getting data from a old cd, you can always try to clean it up / play it at a lower speed or whatever… but with dvds, you just get that stupid cyclic redundancy check error, and the data is gone, it seems.

It’s too bad that Ultrium tapes / stations cost as much as they do :confused: or I’d be getting one of those…


And to top it off… another scan… with another high spike in the middle…


The spike is unique to the Benq DW1620. I have seen it mentioned elsewhere. The spike does not show up on other drives.

All your scans are great scans. Especially scanned at maximum speed. What the hell are you complaining about? I have scans a hell of a lot worse than those and the discs are still readable. What about your transfer tests? How smooth is your read speed curve? If they are smooth then again you have nothing to worry about!

Here is a scan of a cheapo Datawrite Yellow CMC MAG AE1 burned at 12x just so you can compare to mine. This disc reads great apart from that one blip where the spike and dip in speed is. I consider this a good burn for cheapo 8x media burned at 12x

I have no idea what your problem is when you have such good scans.


Well, the main issue is the fact that most of my burned DVDs (99% of them) stopped working after… like a month or something… and I’m trying to figure out why that is happening… shouldn’t DVDs last longer than that? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


Can you post a “bad” scan? All the ones you posted so far are excellent!


Yeah, I wish I had such “bad” scans at 16x speed! :smiley: