Backing up my CD using EAC

Hi everyone, I’ve been talking with Storm J about this, but wanted to pose it to everyone in the forum so I didn’t feel like I was breaking his back, haha :wink:

I noticed that there were choices as far as what to rip the CD as to a file… bin, iso, or img etc. What are the advantages of each? I realized all the files I ripped with CD Clone last month with a big portion of my cd collection were all ripped using the .IMG file extension - which I wish I wouldn’t have used, because they all come with tag-a-long supplementary files when they are put on my hard drive. (Not user friendly or intuitive from my point of view)

**So, what I’m looking for is what is easiest to emulate a disc (WHILE MAINTAINING a multi-track config, so basically it would be a carbon copy of the cd - EAC) as though I had the cd in the optical drive, which would probably be an .ISO if I’m not mistaken? BUT… I just want whatever is easiest to double click and listen to, AND to drag and drop onto my MP3 player if I want…straight from my hdd

Please let me know your thoughts, and whether or not I should use a certain file extension when saving, and also if I can do anything about the huge portion of the .IMG files I already saved of my CD collection last month in order to make them user friendly files I can listen to on the go, or put on my MP3 player or rip certain single tracks off of.

PS: Can I convert all those .IMG files to ISO or something else to fit my needs?

(The reason why i am against the .IMG and .BIN is because I don’t understand them or how to utilize them easily, and I don’t like using virtual drives like Daemon if it can be avoided, so maybe once you all can shed some light on everything I can make a choice and fix everything) THANKS!!!

:flower:

BUMP for the new week! :slight_smile:

I use EAC to “Back up” any dammaged discs after I have sucessfully recovered the music.

The music files are saved on my HDD as individual .wav files,
but the “music CD” configuiration is saved by detecting gaps and creating a cue sheet, this file is saved in the same directory with
the .wav files.

I name the cue file with the name of the album and I segregate my files with the directory structure I use, Artist\Album\Track.

I long ago decided that anything other than the simplest scheme possible for organization is silly.
But much worse is complicated file names.

AD

AD

Well, since I’m not that advanced in this area, that definitely doesn’t sound simple. I’m going to stick with ISO’s from here on out I guess, it creates a perfect replication and I can always rip an ISO CD or DVD file to individual WAV files (audio) just like ripping.

Also, I think ISO’s are easiet for archiving and keeping on an external hdd for use later on.

Any other opinions?

*I wish I knew how to convert .BIN files (created from CD Clone last month) to ISO files.

ISO images cannot contain Audio CD tracks.

You will need some other image format for that, like NRG, CUE+BIN, CUE+WAV, CUE+FLAC, CUE+APE, etc.

[quote=DrageMester;2211990]ISO images cannot contain Audio CD tracks.

You will need some other image format for that, like NRG, CUE+BIN, CUE+WAV, CUE+FLAC, CUE+APE, etc.[/quote]

Thanks a lot for correcting me… I used a virtual drive a while ago to play cd’s but since then I have reformatted and forget the file types I used.

What is the easiest and most compatible way to archive cd’s to my HDD for playback primarily and adding to an MP3 player if need be?

Any word of converting those .BIN files to something else more user friendly? If that was CD Clone’s default rip setting you’d think it would be easier to manage these file types.

a collection of individual wav files can be played directly on virtually any computer, all the cue does is store gap, sequence, Title and artist information

It really is the most simply way.

You asked what is the BEST way, you’ve been aswered

then you claim your way is “simpler” frankly you are wrong.

Seems to me you just don’t like the answer you asked for.

AD

Actually they can. The simplest way I’ve found to copy an audio CD is ImgBurn read mode followed by write meode.

[quote=olyteddy;2212169]Actually they can. The simplest way I’ve found to copy an audio CD is ImgBurn read mode followed by write meode.[/quote] It’s not a program limitation but a format limitation, so either ImgBurn uses another file format extension than .iso or it stores a non-ISO image in a .iso file (I haven’t used ImgBurn myself for this purpose).

[quote=DrageMester;2212220]… so either ImgBurn uses another file format extension than .iso or it stores a non-ISO image in a .iso file (I haven’t used ImgBurn myself for this purpose).[/quote] It would appear that ImgBurn reads Audio CDs into CUE+BIN image files.

The advantage of wav+cue is the simple fact that wav is a "playable"
stand alone format.

IF you keep backups of all your CD’s in ANY OTHER form
and decide you want to “borrow” just a few tracks
(say your two favorites from each album) to make compilation
discs you usually cannot.

Doing the same thing with wav+cue is so easy that it defies logic why anyone would use anything else…

Provided that you don’t create a singly (enormous) wav image of the disc (accurate but argueably pointless)

wav+cue copies are for the most part indestinguishable from the original to most means of identifying the disc by content

AD

[quote=AllanDeGroot;2212158]a collection of individual wav files can be played directly on virtually any computer, all the cue does is store gap, sequence, Title and artist information

It really is the most simply way.

You asked what is the BEST way, you’ve been aswered

then you claim your way is “simpler” frankly you are wrong.

Seems to me you just don’t like the answer you asked for.

AD[/quote]

Don’t know where you gathered all that from. I just said those steps and the assorted acronyms sounded complex to me, since as I admitted I am not a professional programmer or veteran with digital media and conversion. That’s all.

What program would I use to go about creating the WAV files using a cue? Would it save like one large file representing the Audio CD I ripped (sort of like an iso for DVDs) or would it be something different. It’s important to keep all the tracks in order, since 90%+ of my Audio CD’s I am ripping to archive are audio books.

Thanks. And if it’s the easiet way, that simply means I need to learn more and apply it to the best of my ability. That’s what I like about this forum so much, so since you hit the nail on the head with the simplest form, I would appreciate it if you could expand on that and I will follow your advice on the WAV Cue…

YES! Oh I’m glad you brought this up… I have so many (over 40 already) cd’s that have been ripped to my HDD using IMGburn. I assumed early on it was the easiest way for a novice like me to archive my cd’s, because I just clicked ‘create image.’ But now, I’m left with all these .IMG files that all have corresponding .BIN files.

How can I make thise files functional or play them back or burn them to a new cd?

If the prior suggested WAV files with a cue is still best, I would truly like some help on how to create those files. (My biggest problem is with so many cd’s and audio-books, I wanted to keep them “looking like” ISO files, so I could store them in one sequence and simply click on them to listen to the whole cd)

[quote=AllanDeGroot;2212643]The advantage of wav+cue is the simple fact that wav is a "playable"
stand alone format.

IF you keep backups of all your CD’s in ANY OTHER form
and decide you want to “borrow” just a few tracks
(say your two favorites from each album) to make compilation
discs you usually cannot.

Doing the same thing with wav+cue is so easy that it defies logic why anyone would use anything else…

Provided that you don’t create a singly (enormous) wav image of the disc (accurate but argueably pointless)

wav+cue copies are for the most part indestinguishable from the original to most means of identifying the disc by content

AD[/quote]

Thanks AD,

I guess for my pupose (audio books) they are truly only good in their entirety. A lot of the information has to be listened to chronologically since it is being read verbatim from the original text. I learn better by listening and taking notes, so I have “read” a lot, haha!

I would still like to know for both purposes… what is the correct way to

  1. Rip and create WAV files using CUE so that everything is saved in order, yet playable in any device but still identical to the original cd.
  2. Use the previously created .IMG ‘bin’ files that IMGburn has already saved to my HDD? I have tried virtual drives and VLC MP, but nothing seems to work. Has anyone ever used IMGburn to create a so-called “ISO” image of Audio CD’s?

THANKS! :slight_smile:

There’s an option in ImgBurn to save audio cd’s as CUE+WAV rather than CUE+BIN.

Your existing BIN file is really just RAW PCM data so any audio software that can import RAW / PCM files should be able to then save it as a WAV file - it’s only a case of adding a tiny header to the file. A quick tweak of the CUE to reference the new file and you’re sorted.

The option of mounting the CUE in DAEMON Tools and playing from the virtual drive still stands - or just mounting it so you can rip it again in a different format.

You cannot put audio data in an ISO. An ISO is a dumb container format that’s designed for single session / track images with a sector size of 2048. Audio is obviously multi track (normally anyway!) and 2352 bytes per sector.
Give up with the whole idea of having an audio cd in an ISO file. Yes you can name the file *.ISO but it sure as hell won’t work properly!

Audio Books?

all you really need to do is set the ripping program (whatever software you use)
to append a file number ahead of any title.

So file “01 xxxxx-xxxxx.wav” is always going to
play before file “02 xxxxx-xxxxx.wav”

the primary reason for a “cue” on audio CD’s beyond storing artist/disc/tracktitle
information is to maintain any necissary “synchronization” between tracks.

cue’s also contain CD-Text information

so on a compatible audio player playing your burned audio-book CD’s
will display author - title and you could use chapter titles in place of track titles.

Some musical artists like to smoothly “fade” from one
track into another (“foreplay” and “Long Time” on the
first Boston album is an excellent example)

But I’ve gotta say using wav to store audio books is a poor use of resources.
Frankly for the low fidelity requirements of audio books I wouldn’t dream of
wasting data storage space keeing them as WAV files
(Yes! Me, “Mr Discspace is too cheap to worry about saving it”)
I’d store them as mp3’s @ 160kBit Sec.

Because most modern equipment can play mp3-CDs as easily
as audio CDs if you for instance, have an audio book that’s 9 discs
you can easily fit all 9 wav discs onto a single CD-R at 160kBit/sec
even if all are completely filled… (unlikely)

you could probably compress audio books to 80k (EIGHTEEN discs!)
and never notice any loss of quality, but compression for it’s own
sake is pointless.
I only compress enough to make things fit where I want them
to go…

so if your audio book is 6-7 discs I’d compress to 192KBit/sec CBR.

If your home CD player won’t play mp3 discs it’s ancient
I’ve personally never seen a DVD player that wouldn’t play
mp3’s on either CD-R’s or DVD-R discs

You can buy a decent aftermarket car stereo that’ll play mp3’s
for well under $200… if you shop around you might find one that’ll
play mp3-DVD’s in that price range!

I’ve pretty much switched over to mp3-CD’s for mobile use
(at 320kBit/sec CBR) because with each disc playing for 4.5 hours
and the fact that I have a ten disc changer that plays mp3-CDs
means that I have 45HOURS of music before it starts playing
the first disc over again.

And there is an additional benefit of mp3’s Id3 tags
ID3 tags can carry far more information that CD-TEXT can

and most mp3 capable car stereos will display id3 tag information.

there are even versions of the id3 tag that can store karoke data
and display streaming lyrics as the song plays…
Imagine that capability applied to an audio book:)

I usually ask “what is your goal” on these discussions
because quite often (as I see happening here) what people
are trying to do is sometimes not the best way to achieve
their ultimate goal.

It seems to me you are trying to “Back up” audio book discs
And frankly the audio quality demands of a typical audio book
do not justify storage in a lossless codec.

unless you had several EMPTY 2Tb drives…

on the other side of that coin…
a friend questioned why when I normally make all my mp3’s as 320k
why when I made mp3’s of the first eight LedZeppelin albums I made
them as 192’s
I told him that frankly the quality/limitations of the original recordings
didn’t actually justify using 160k, but 192k was how much I needed
to compress them all to fit them onto a single CD-R (along with an additional
80-odd minutes of acoustic and cover songs)

AD

Awesome, I had no idea it was integrated into IMGburn already to create WAV+CUE; that’s awesome news.

I have always liked IMGburn since the first time I tried it, and now I have another huge reason to like it!

… Would you mind pointing me in the right direction or tutorial on how to convert my large amount of .BIN raw files that was a product of using CD Clone to rip my Audio CD’s to the more user friendly WAV + Cue? THANKS!!! :smiley:

[QUOTE=LIGHTNING UK!;2213320]There’s an option in ImgBurn to save audio cd’s as CUE+WAV rather than CUE+BIN.

Your existing BIN file is really just RAW PCM data so any audio software that can import RAW / PCM files should be able to then save it as a WAV file - it’s only a case of adding a tiny header to the file. A quick tweak of the CUE to reference the new file and you’re sorted.

The option of mounting the CUE in DAEMON Tools and playing from the virtual drive still stands - or just mounting it so you can rip it again in a different format.

You cannot put audio data in an ISO. An ISO is a dumb container format that’s designed for single session / track images with a sector size of 2048. Audio is obviously multi track (normally anyway!) and 2352 bytes per sector.
Give up with the whole idea of having an audio cd in an ISO file. Yes you can name the file *.ISO but it sure as hell won’t work properly![/QUOTE]

[B]Hey AD,[/B]

I just wanted to thank you for taking all the time to type that out, I don’t know why I never thought of MP3 as the solution, but that’s why I love coming here to CDF!

So, something as simple as Windows Media Player can rip to MP3 format (I have WMP 11), would that be ideal, or do you pros have something else that is more intuitive and gathers more information/organizes tracks better? The only problem I have had with ripping MP3’s with WMP is that I don’t know how to set up a folder for each audio-book before I start the rip and make sure the track numbers are all chronilogical without going through a million steps. At any rate, THANKS A LOT; you’re right… 160kbs is DEFINITELY enough, and I can fit my old-school 8-9 disc audio books on ONE MP3 cd-r in the future if I want to burn it!

[B][I]Any more tips you have on saving the files as MP3’s, programs, or the above issues with WMP would be greatly appreciated! [/I][/B]:bow:

[QUOTE=AllanDeGroot;2213381]Audio Books?

all you really need to do is set the ripping program (whatever software you use)
to append a file number ahead of any title.

So file “01 xxxxx-xxxxx.wav” is always going to
play before file “02 xxxxx-xxxxx.wav”

the primary reason for a “cue” on audio CD’s beyond storing artist/disc/tracktitle
information is to maintain any necissary “synchronization” between tracks.

cue’s also contain CD-Text information

so on a compatible audio player playing your burned audio-book CD’s
will display author - title and you could use chapter titles in place of track titles.

Some musical artists like to smoothly “fade” from one
track into another (“foreplay” and “Long Time” on the
first Boston album is an excellent example)

But I’ve gotta say using wav to store audio books is a poor use of resources.
Frankly for the low fidelity requirements of audio books I wouldn’t dream of
wasting data storage space keeing them as WAV files
(Yes! Me, “Mr Discspace is too cheap to worry about saving it”)
I’d store them as mp3’s @ 160kBit Sec.

Because most modern equipment can play mp3-CDs as easily
as audio CDs if you for instance, have an audio book that’s 9 discs
you can easily fit all 9 wav discs onto a single CD-R at 160kBit/sec
even if all are completely filled… (unlikely)

you could probably compress audio books to 80k (EIGHTEEN discs!)
and never notice any loss of quality, but compression for it’s own
sake is pointless.
I only compress enough to make things fit where I want them
to go…

so if your audio book is 6-7 discs I’d compress to 192KBit/sec CBR.

If your home CD player won’t play mp3 discs it’s ancient
I’ve personally never seen a DVD player that wouldn’t play
mp3’s on either CD-R’s or DVD-R discs

You can buy a decent aftermarket car stereo that’ll play mp3’s
for well under $200… if you shop around you might find one that’ll
play mp3-DVD’s in that price range!

I’ve pretty much switched over to mp3-CD’s for mobile use
(at 320kBit/sec CBR) because with each disc playing for 4.5 hours
and the fact that I have a ten disc changer that plays mp3-CDs
means that I have 45HOURS of music before it starts playing
the first disc over again.

And there is an additional benefit of mp3’s Id3 tags
ID3 tags can carry far more information that CD-TEXT can

and most mp3 capable car stereos will display id3 tag information.

there are even versions of the id3 tag that can store karoke data
and display streaming lyrics as the song plays…
Imagine that capability applied to an audio book:)

I usually ask “what is your goal” on these discussions
because quite often (as I see happening here) what people
are trying to do is sometimes not the best way to achieve
their ultimate goal.

It seems to me you are trying to “Back up” audio book discs
And frankly the audio quality demands of a typical audio book
do not justify storage in a lossless codec.

unless you had several EMPTY 2Tb drives…

on the other side of that coin…
a friend questioned why when I normally make all my mp3’s as 320k
why when I made mp3’s of the first eight LedZeppelin albums I made
them as 192’s
I told him that frankly the quality/limitations of the original recordings
didn’t actually justify using 160k, but 192k was how much I needed
to compress them all to fit them onto a single CD-R (along with an additional
80-odd minutes of acoustic and cover songs)

AD[/QUOTE]

this is what I often ask WHY you are attempting to do a specific task
when someone says WHAT they are trying to accomplish.

Often people get fixated on the specific method they are employing
(that they are having a problem) without considering “detours” of methodology:)

You want to “preserve” audio books, preserving them as “wav” is, as you agree, wasteful.

It all SOUNDS far more complicated than it actually is.

My neighbor is an electrical engineer (power oriented) for a metals refining company and while very computer literate in regards to word processing was not exactly “up” on playing with audio files.

the program of education took all of an hour (in two sessions) with copies of the correct (free) software.

I use WMP9.0 for home playback, but only because of it’s ability to organize mp3 tracks based on the exsisting metadate (the id3 tags)
OR with data that’s manually edited with WMP.

I can play by the “rating” I’ve given a particular song, by artist, album, Genre or even by which tracks I have chosen to play at a particular time of day in the past… it’s actually kinda neat…

I use WMP9.0 (instead of 10.0 or 11.0) because I’m still operating on a Win2000 system. (P4 2.4 computer)

My process for creating mp3’s is:
Step 1: I use EAC to “rip” the track from the disc to my HDD as
wav files
Step 2: I create a compressed mp3 file with the “free” trial version of a commercial program NCH’s "SwitchSound"
Step 3: Edit/add id3 tags witha program called TagScanner (fre downloadable)

Only then do I have WMP “search” the specific directory where I have placed the files in question.

ALL the files my WMP can play are located on my F drive as that drive ONLY contains mp3’s for playback on my computer.

I actually do all my Ripping, compressed file creation and tag editing
on a small (20gig) drive because that drive defragments fairly quickly after I have created the compressed files, copied them to the proper “archive” drive, either archived the wav files or deleted them
and generally deleted the no longer needed files on that “Scratch pad” drive.

Organizing by directory “Tree structure” isn’t at all difficult nor complicated.

For example if you want to stors the AC/DC song "Hells Bells"
You’d first have a directory called “Music”, either as a “root directory”
(to shorten the path) or as part of “My Documents”

Next you might want to seperate your wav files from your mp3’s

Personally I also seperate my mp3’s by bitrate

So let’s assume that you do too and you have a 320kBitSec mp3 file

so the file path would be:

D:\Music\mp3 320k\AC-DC\Back In Black\01 Hells Bells.mp3

It’s not at all a complicated method.

My issue with using WMP to create mp3’s or even to create/edit mp3 tags is because WMP doesn’t use the best compression algorythm (LAME) offers fewer choices of compression rate, is “compromised” because of microsoft’s penchant for bowing to the idol of “Digtal Rights Management” (if they didn’t create it in the first place)

And finally because WMP will edit some id3 information the FIRST time you change it, but if you make a mistake and change that info through WMP the displayed info within WMP changes but the actual embedded information in the file’s id3 tag DOES NOT ACTUALLY CHANGE".

Add to this the fact that I have never actually gotten WMP to create the title in an id3 tag…

Funny thing is if you have a file that WMP has already “searched for” and plays and you then edit the tag info and play it again with WMP
the SOME of that alered information will change when that particular file is played again… other items will NOT display different until you edit them within WMP.

Another “odd” thing that WMP does if it “knows” a file and you remove it from one hard drive and move it to another,WMP will
STILL play that file and change the file adress in WMP to reflect the correct adress… WMP actually puts it’s own identifying "Tag"
on every file it plays… your wmp KNOWS what you have…

I find this slightly disturbing… but again, it’s utility on playback makes this a minor point.

I still use WMP, but… it bothers me that I can move and HIDE a file on another drive and it still finds it…

AD