Are the new nVidia drivers cheating you?

vbimport

#1

I just noticed a nice link on /. which was mentioning this review of 3dMark 2003.

In our recent GeforceFX 5900 Ultra story, we noticed the Nvidia board was well ahead of ATI’s Radeon 9800 Pro in Futuremark’s 3DMark2003 benchmark, but the two boards were much more evenly matched in our GameGauge application benchmark suite.

We’ve just discovered certain test anomalies that indicate to us that Nvidia may be special-casing 3DMark2003, throwing away work, to attain higher scores.


#2

wouldnt be the first time companies have done this kind of thing.


#3

sure wouldn’t, that’s what ATI used to do for the quake 3 benchmark test.


#4

ATI - made by Canada :cool: :smiley: :bigsmile:


#5

I don’t do benchmarks, so don’t care. As long as I’m getting smooth and fast racing action w/ my EA Superbike game on the GF4 Ti4200, it’s all good.


#6

LOL - the best thing i’ve ever read on slashdot was a comment about video cards and gaming…something like

“you mean video cards are good for more than benchmarking?”


#7

Originally posted by ckin2001
[B]LOL - the best thing i’ve ever read on slashdot was a comment about video cards and gaming…something like

“you mean video cards are good for more than benchmarking?” [/B]

Good one… I think the number of runs on 3DMark I’ve made are far higher than the number of games I’ve played since I was born :wink:

I wouldn’t be surprised if NVidia was doing this. After all, even bad publicity is better than no publicity at all… this’ll at least bring the name of the GF FX to the public…


#8

everytime i try and find more info about halflife 2, i read the fans talking about how they need to buy a geforce4. look who’s marketing is winning, at least :wink:


#9

read this article about the new 44.03 drivers and saw the screenshot of the dragothic test where the dragon has dissapeared.
Well if you ask me this looks more like an honest bug to me cause its too damn obvious to be some kind of cheat. And there should probably be some kind of image control on future bechmarks that check that everything is drawn.


#10

Detonator 45 will kill all enemies in DOOM3, giving you a wonderful smooth walk trough the corridors :smiley:


#11

I read the document futuremark published about their new 3dmark patch that kills the nvidia driver cheats and it said that the 3dmarks on a GFFX5800 dropped 24% when the cheats were turned off ATI cards dropped in one test too so it appears that ATI was cheating too but not as much as nvidia (or maybe they cheat better so it’s harder to detect). Reading this made me lose what little faith I had left in big corporations trying to gain market share. They’re all the same :Z


#12

There is no such thing as bad publicity and i doubt that big companies even care for non-professional endusers (read : gamers).

What they are concerned with is when other major companies who use their cards by the thousands get pissed.

Imagine John Carmack writing a column that nVidia and Ati both suck and decides only to optimize his code for Doom III for the Matrox Parhelia. That would get their attention , but would they care for it much ? They will find another minion for their work.

I sincerely doubt major corporate companies will implement a new videocard based on Dawn , 3dMark 2003 , Doom III or Half Life 2 screenshots.

I’ve been trying to study nVidia’s Cg language for a while now and i must say it is pretty impressive (for me). Will i ever use it to render my own cool Doom IV implementation ? Nope.


#13

In a nutshull you are either a Nvidia GeForce 2/3/4TIx or ATI Radeon 9x owner. On a personal basis I bought a Geforce TI4600 not long ago, and I am very happy with it. I have always had a GForce card and as long as it plays my games, who cares about a benchmark. I think some peeps read too much into it.

Ok diehard ATI owners on this forum might wanna have a go my card is better than yours etc. Thats just a childish attitude to adopt. Nothing personal OK, just making it quite clear. :wink:

Greetz The Diplomat:D


#14

FutureMark released a new version of 3D Mark 03, one that doesn’t work with the “cheats”… and guess what: the performance of the Ultra FX5900 is lowered by about 25%!!

Read more here


#15

but it that caused by the hardware or software?/

nobody can proof that


#16

Originally posted by damiandimitri
[B]but it that caused by the hardware or software?/

nobody can proof that [/B]

Well, the story goes like this:

By using some kind of driver-mod, NVidia optimized the Detonator drivers for 3DMark03, by not rendering some images (non-viewables) and alternating some vertex shaders…

Futuremark released a new version of 3DMark03, that isn’t vurnerable to driver cheats like this one… and it seems to work!


#17

does the cheatproof 3dmark now render the images properly?


#18

i am folowing the story at warp2search and techconnect (and here of course)

i know the story…but it seems that NVidia is not part of the development of the 3d mark stuff…(cost a lott of money to participate)

So how could they have optimized thier hardware…for software that they didn’t see before…

By the way…what do you guys think of games benchmarks.
I get 100fps in MOhaa with all options on. But i don’t have those very high scores in benchmarks…
I prefer the benchmarks that games sometimes allow.

( o yes…i am an ATI user…not defending Nvidia…

:bigsmile: )

A representative at Nvidia questioned the validity of Futuremark’s conclusions. “Since Nvidia is not part of the Futuremark beta program (a program which costs of hundreds of thousands of dollars to participate in), we do not get a chance to work with Futuremark on writing the shaders like we would with a real applications developer,” the representative said. “We don’t know what they did, but it looks like they have intentionally tried to create a scenario that makes our products look bad.”


#19

Originally posted by ckin2001
does the cheatproof 3dmark now render the images properly?

Well Futuremark says so… I guess we just have to believe them…

for what it’s worth, Uncle Tom says he feels the same way about it…


#20

The story continues …

(sigh)