AnyDVD and forced subs

vbimport

#1

Hey everybody,

I just downloaded the trial copy of AnyDVD for kicks and tried to make a backup copy of my “The Last Samurai” DVD with CloneDVD. The procedere is exactly the same I successfully did for non-CSS-decrypted movies several times, only with AnyDVD running in the background: Put the original DVD in DVD drive, start CloneDVD, select “Rip main movie only” and there you go. So far, so good.

“The Last Samurai” has parts in it where the actors speak Japanse. During the movie, the viewer sees subtitles with the translation (in my case, German). With my first try to copy “The Last Samurai”, I wasn’t very successful in that point: The subtitles where gone in my copy. As far as I found out now, these subtitles are “forced subtitles” and stored in data stream 0x2C.

Unfortunately (that’s the first point I would like to stress out), CloneDVD does not show the ID of subtitle streams, just the language. For “The Last Samurai”, this means that there are three German subtitle streams and it’s up to the user to guess which is the right one (for forced subtitles is the third one, I found out trial-by-error). This could be improved by elby/SlySoft hint hint ;).

The second point I would like to stress out is that AnyDVD seems to kill forced subtitles during the copy process. Although I told CloneDVD to copy subtitle stream 0x2C, the forced subtitles did NOT appear in the final copy. I guess that AnyDVD’s option “Prohibited user operations” is responsible for that.

I think that this is not very productive - maybe there is a workaround to make forced subtitles work with AnyDVD? Otherwise, this feature should be improved in future versions. Or did I miss something and forced subtitles do generally work with CloneDVD/AnyDVD and I have chosen the wrong parameters? Thanks for any help.


#2

Hmmmm, I just had a movie - Virus I think it was, that had forced subtitles as well. Running with AnyDVD v4.4.1.1 beta I didn’t have any troubles. It showed the subtitles correctly. If you’re using an older version maybe that version does have something with the subs that makes CloneDVD2 shut them off.


#3

I use 4.4.1.1 beta. I just tried with “User prohibited operations” set to “on” - did not work, no forced subtitles in copy. Right now, I am doing an other run with “User prohibited operations” set to “off” - let’s see if that fixes the problem.

BTW: I’m just reminding that I’m talking about FORCED subtitles, not subtitles in general.


#4

It worked with “User prohibited operations” turned off. Nevertheless, this is not optimal. There may be cases one would like to have user prohibited operations turned on, but forced subtitles enabled. Basically, AnyDVD shouldn’t override settings made in CloneDVD. Maybe Slysoft has an solution for that in future versions.


#5

I have raised this point with SlySoft before, and they said “When AnyDVD removes the PUO, it allows the user to change a selected subtitle. It does not change the automatic (forced) selection. We will keep an eye on this, if this problem is AnyDVD related, we will try to fix it.”

Perhaps if you [and anyone else with the same problem] were to report this to SlySoft directly they would put more effort into fixing it. After all, a fix for one person is low priority, but the more people with the problem the higher the likelyhood of a fix being found.

I have to say that my experience of SlySoft and bug fixes is very good, and I do not mean to sound ungrateful or annoyed that nothing has been done yet.


#6

Basically, I agree with what you say. But:

We are talking about computers here: If it goes wrong one time, it will go wrong every time. It’s a problem of the software, not of one or multiple users.


#7

No, with computers nothing is predictable! :slight_smile:
Seriously: I backed up Star Wars episode IV with CloneDVD & AnyDVD removing PUO. The forced subtitles of the alien language in the bar scene do show in Power DVD and Zoom player on the backup.
Other users have reported here, that they do NOT show on their standalone player.


#8

It’s a problem of AnyDVD, as backing up with DVDFab and the forced sub data stream enabled works perfectly well.

For AnyDVD, backing up The Last Samurai’s forced subtitles does only work with PUO disabled. With PUO enabled, they do not show up, neither in WinDVD nor on the SAP. Subtitles are not selectable after all, AnyDVD is just wiping them out. Mabybe it’s because the forced subs are in a seperate data stream and not included in the movie stream.

Perhaps SlySoft can have an eye on this, as well as on the first point I mentioned in my first posting? It would be just great if the IDs of movie/audio/data streams would be shown in CloneDVD’s selection dialogue.


#9

I don’t understand how AnyDVD compares to DVDFab?


#10

They both decrypt CSS, remove Macrovision and stuff like that, don’t they? That’s what DVD copy solutions are for… :wink:

Maybe you think that AnyDVD is better than DVDFab or DVD Shrink or […] from a programmer’s point of view. From MY user point of view, I am interested in the result of the copy process, NOT in - I’m sorry to say - vanities of some software manufacturers arguing if AnyDVD ist better or DVD Region + CSS Free or […] as you did before.

Nevertheless, this has nothing to do with the core of the problem: AnyDVD has problems with, at least, SOME forced subtitles while copying DVD content AS LONG AS PUO is active. Can we, please, agree with that and that it would be just great if this problem could be solved?

As I said before, as a user, I am interested in the RESULT of the copy process and other programs don’t have this “forced subtitle” problem, as you can see from what I stated above. BTW: I tried DVDShrink as well, works with forced subtitles. Next step would be trying out DVD Region + CSS Free, but I don’t have all the time of the world.


#11

DVDFab has a build-in decrypter…perhaps trollpatsch is talking about the ripping part…

OOOPS…too late… :bigsmile:


#12

Thanks road. As I know from at least one discussion here, Olli doesn’t like Fengtao products very much. :wink:


#13

I don’t like the way DVD Region Free works, because it hooks the user mode windows API.
But I didn’t know that DVDFab has in-built decryption. I was pretty sure you need a second tool (DVD Region Free, AnyDVD), but this might have changed?
Anyway, good to know, that it does now.


#14

DVDFab has integrated decryption, except for SONY copy protection (they say for this, it needs DVD CSS + Region Free). See dvdidle.com for details.

I appreciate your work and the time you’re spending with the forum, Olli. But can we please come back to the forced subs/PUO problem and negotiate?


#15

Sure. I have made the following tests with “Last Samurai” R2, German. I used chapter 39 as reference.

AnyDVD was running, all options on, even jump to main movie:
1.) Played DVD with Zoomplayer: Forced subtitles were shown.
2.) Played DVD with PowerDVD: Forced subtitles were shown.
3.) Played DVD with WinDVD: Forced subtitles were shown.

I wonder, how the problem can be related to AnyDVD, if all players don’t show the problem?

Anyway, now I copied the DVD with CloneDVD. To save time, I selected only chapters 39-41. I included the menu, AnyDVD settings as above.
1.) Played DVD with Zoomplayer: Forced subtitles were shown.
2.) Played DVD with PowerDVD: Forced subtitles were shown.
3.) Played DVD with WinDVD: Forced subtitles were shown.

The last test was copying without menus. I did not expect the forced subtitles to work, and they didn’t.
1.) Played DVD with Zoomplayer: Forced subtitles were not shown.
2.) Played DVD with PowerDVD: Forced subtitles were not shown.
3.) Played DVD with WinDVD: Forced subtitles were not shown.

Now I switched off removal of PUO in AnyDVD, and copied again without menus. I wanted to see, if a miracle happens. Apparently, it did not:
1.) Played DVD with Zoomplayer: Forced subtitles were not shown.
2.) Played DVD with PowerDVD: Forced subtitles were not shown.
3.) Played DVD with WinDVD: Forced subtitles were not shown.

You see, I did my very best to reproduce your problem, but I failed… :confused:

Maybe someone else can come up with a better test scenario?

P.S.: Versions used were PowerDVD5, PowerDVD6, WinDVD6 and Zoomplayer professional (registered)


#16

I did not include the movie menu with my copy. The results are described above: With PUO turned on, forced subs are not shown, without PUO turned on, they are. I only copied the German movie/sound/subtitle streams.

I will do some more testing with a 1:1 DVD image created by DVD Decrypter (CSS and stuff filtered out) as I’m tired of always ripping the whole movie for every test.


#17

Hmm, in my test it failed even with removal of PUO turned off… :confused:
Maybe I ran in the “play from last position” trap, I’ll re-check.


#18

Hey, can someone help me with a related problem at http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?p=814989 I do not know how to fix this.


#19

I’m not getting forward right now with DVD Decrypter. Additional to remove the copy protection, it offers “Remove IFO PUOs” and “Remove VOB PUOs”. I don’t know which options to check because I don’t want the ISO without subtitles and stuff. It seems that this will take more time as I expected. Thus, I will do three images:

  1. Image of complete DVD with just copy protection removed.
  2. As 1., additionally IFO PUOs removed.
  3. As 2., additionally VOB PUOs removed.

I’m excited how the differences will be when loading the ISO in WinDVD.


#20

Okay, I have redone my tests with AnyDVD remove PUO off/on and CloneDVD copy without movie.

Here are the results…
AnyDVD remove PUO off:
1.) Played DVD with Zoomplayer: Forced subtitles were not shown.
2.) Played DVD with PowerDVD6: Forced subtitles were not shown.
3.) Played DVD with WinDVD6: Forced subtitles were shown!!!

AnyDVD remove PUO on:
1.) Played DVD with Zoomplayer: Forced subtitles were not shown.
2.) Played DVD with PowerDVD6: Forced subtitles were not shown.
3.) Played DVD with WinDVD6: Forced subtitles were shown!!!

I checked twice, that I cleared WinDVD’s “last position” this time.

The result seems to be identical, regardless of AnyDVD’s setting.