Another beginners oc question from me

[anikk]

Many modern motherboards have a CPU multiplier setting and so does mine. Now let's take my FSB800, 2.00GHz CPU, the E2180. Normally this CPU runs at 10x200MHz=2000MHz per Core. Now the real, physical FSB clocking of 200MHzQDR in this and similar CPU models is hardwired in the CPU as I learned in another thread this forum.

So since the actual CPU FSB is hardwired, is any clock in the whole PC over-clocked at all if I set my CPU to 6x333MHz=2000MHz? Note that in my question the 2000MHz stays the default CPU clock. Only the FSB is raised from 200MHz to 333MHz. As I understand it, the CPU then still works at FSB800, because it's hardwired to FSB800. If the Board can even run FSB1600 CPUs officially, then is there any clock over-clocked at all? (PCIE is fixed to 100MHz of course.)

You know actually I'm a non-overclocker, and I would leave my settings like this only if that settings does not overclock a single clock in my whole system. The reason why I think that nothing's overclocked with that settings is a real mystery: My idle Tcase temp went down from 30°C to 25°C and my idle Tjunction temps went down from 25°C to 23°C! It's completely not logical to me. Does anybody have an explanation for this as well?

Many thanks for reading my questions.

[crossg]

From what I have seen and read changing CPU multipliers allows users to maximize the memory bandwidth by underclocking the cpu and running the FSB at higher speeds. Also some people claim when they hit a wall with OC say 10 x 360 = 3600 they lower the multiplier to 9 x 400 = 3600 and claim to get better stablility. I have never had any luck with that. I am pretty sure the main reason for changing multipliers is to maximize memory bandwith. If you have your memory set to 200 in bios and change your multipliers then it’s a moot point. Some bios’s do this automaticly and some you have to set. In your case I doubt your memory will boot at 2000 mhz. You have to change the memory speeds (dividers) as well or set it to auto, You need good memory that’s capable of running at higher speeds.

[anikk]

Thanks for answering! Well, sorry, I totally forgot the memory part, so I have to start from zero again: I don’t want to overclock. My question was different. If my FSB800, 2000MHz E2180 CPU on a motherboard that officially makes FSB1600 is set to 6x333MHz=[B]2000MHz[/B] instead of 10x200MHz=2000MHz, and my DDR2-800 RAM is then set back to [B]default 800MHz[/B] with the BIOS RAM multiplier/divider and PCIE is locked to 100MHz, then only FSB alone is over-clocked. Correct? But is even the FSB over-clocked then? You know, this CPU and similar models are hardwired to FSB800. Doesn’t this mean, that then the CPU is still running at FSB800? So is there a single clock in my whole PC that is over-clocked, when setting an FSB800/2000MHz CPU to 6x333MHz=2000MHz and the RAM back to default 800MHz with the RAM multiplier?

I hope my question can be better understood now. Sorry and thanks again!

[crossg]

Not sure what you mean by hardwired. If you have the ability to change the multi’s then your fsb will change as well, and yes if you run your fsb at 333 vs 200 you are stepping up (overclocking) the the fsb. If your memory divider is 1-1 then you mem would be as well, that’s why the have the dividers. Check your FSB with CPU-Z when you change the multi and you will see that you have a higher fsb. Hope this is what you wanted.
Edit: 1-1 memory ratio means your memory is running at the same speed as your FSB.
Here is an example multiplier and clock change

[anikk]

With hardwired I mean that the CPU has a hardware-locked FSB800, which needs a so-called “pinmod” to unlock to a native (but then hardware over-clocked) FSB1333. That the E2180 CPUs is possibly an FSB1333 processor actually, is a different story. The “pinmod” would still be hardware-overclocking, because one can never know if her/his CPU hasn’t been downgraded FSB-wise as well by intel, because it hadn’t worked very well FSB-wise as well during factory testing>grading. But back to my question: Yeah, so the FSB cannot be overclocked by BIOS. If you are right than it’s overclocking. If the people who say that the E2180 always runs at FSB800 internally are right, then it would be logical to think that it’s not, wouldn’t it. Could this be cleared up please? Who is right? I really don’t know. At the moment I trust in both party’s answers - yours and another one I received some time ago with the FSB being hardware-locked -, since this seems to be a difficult issue. Could this be discussed? Many thanks!

[crossg]

Ok I just had a look around and and people are clocking this CPU upwards of 3.2 Ghz and saw no mention of a pencil or pin mod. I have seen a pin/pencil mod for the Q6600 that sets the FSB to 1333 as default vs the 1066 default. Maybe this is what you mean? Overclocking is never set in stone so it can be difficult and involed to explain properly. Can you give us a link for the pin mod you mentioned.

[anikk]

http://club.cdfreaks.com/f7/overclocking-question-238988/#post1999508 … that’s the discussion I had and which I mentioned.

A link at least to an Allendale pinmod for now: http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/169088-e4300-pin-mod-not-working-allendale.html. Will add a link to a specific E2180 one as soon as I find one.

[crossg]

Found one. Here that has the mods. These look they are forcing the fsb to a higher speed. I don’t own a E 2xxx cpu but normally when they say locked you can’t use a higher multiplier but you can use lower multi’s. In your case you can’t use a multi of 11 and in mine with the Q6600 I can’t use higher than 9x.

[anikk]

Yeah, many thanks [B]crossg[/B] for your great help and even do research on the issue. And yeah, that makes sense. So it’s not hard wired to FSB800 but hardware-limited to FSB800. Maybe [B]eric93se[/B] reads this and joins the discussion I sort of continued here. If there’s a need for it, we will maybe discuss again. For example I don’t understand how the BIOS can manage to circumwent the hardware limitation to 10x and run the CPU with a 6x to 9x multiplier. We will see. I have set back everything to default now.

[eric93se]

[QUOTE=georgekellerman;2035075]Thanks for answering! Well, sorry, I totally forgot the memory part, so I have to start from zero again: I don’t want to overclock. My question was different. If my FSB800, 2000MHz E2180 CPU on a motherboard that officially makes FSB1600 is set to 6x333MHz=[B]2000MHz[/B] instead of 10x200MHz=2000MHz, and my DDR2-800 RAM is then set back to [B]default 800MHz[/B] with the BIOS RAM multiplier/divider and PCIE is locked to 100MHz, then only FSB alone is over-clocked. Correct? But is even the FSB over-clocked then? You know, this CPU and similar models are hardwired to FSB800. Doesn’t this mean, that then the CPU is still running at FSB800? So is there a single clock in my whole PC that is over-clocked, when setting an FSB800/2000MHz CPU to 6x333MHz=2000MHz and the RAM back to default 800MHz with the RAM multiplier?

I hope my question can be better understood now. Sorry and thanks again![/QUOTE]

By changing your multiplier and FSB from 200 to 333, you have then changed the 800MHz FSB of the CPU to 1333MHz, like you said earlier its quad pumped. Also the lower temperatures your seeing doesn’t account for the temperatue of the Northbridge chip which should be now running hotter. The higher frequency will give you higher memory bandwidth, but as crossg said its not easy to find memory that can run that fast, so a FSB: DRAM multiplier would also have to be changed to make the ram run at a resonable/stable speed.

[eric93se]

It turns out that the pin mod for the e2180 chips is not worth doing because intel has made these chips with a FSB wall, meaning they can only be overclocked so far and current MB’s can easily reach the ‘wall’ that they have. Mine is around 335MHz for the FSB, so optimally I can reach 335x10=3350MHz for this particular chip, other have gone higher with better cooling, water, phase-change etc. have reached ~440Mhz.

By pin modding a chip there is one cavate, and that is whether or not the cpu can run at the higher FSB speed with the standard voltage the MB give the cpu when first setup. The way to get around that is to first raise the cpu voltage in the BIOS, then remove the chip and pin-mod it and reinstall the chip. BUT if you were to ever reset the BIOS or install a new bios, then the system may not start at all because the cpu voltage has also been reset.

If you have been able to run your system at 333*6, it may or may not actually be stable, you computer may seem fine but without some stress testing to be sure.

I cannot explain how MB manufacturers are able to make the cpu run with a faster FSB overclocking the CPU. They are telling it to run faster but at your own risk essentially. I’m pretty sure that Intel doesn’t warranty a CPU that has been overclocked.

AFAIK, everything that crossg said above is right.

[anikk]

Well, thanks again [B]eric93se[/B]. Your posts cleared things even further. I will keep all this in mind for this PC. It’s not a big issue that the CPU has been overclocked. Warranty etc. won’t happen with this setup (I don’t know, personally I’m not satisfied I guess…), and they all do FSB1333 without getting damaged afaik and it was just for about three hours or so. I will build a new and much bigger quad-core PC (from Enermax, Foxconn, intel, Crucial components only ), beginning in the next months. Then there won’t be any ocing anyway.

But really, these are things one must have tried and one must know in my opinion. It’s interesting.

[Bob]

I don’t think you can overclock a pre-built system

[DiiZzY]

You can in most cases by raising FSB in Windows using software which directly talks to the “clock frequency chip”, question is if its worth spending time on it and apply something that might affect stability.
//Danne

[anikk]

Pre-built?

[Bob]

[QUOTE=georgekellerman;2035397]Pre-built?[/QUOTE]I was being nice

[Cressida]

Hi georgekellerman :),

You want to get a Celeron 300A (Mendocino core) and change jumpers on the mobo from 66 to 100MHz FSB. That’s an instant 50% overclock with everything running at stock settings (except for the CPU of course, and you’ll need to use PC100 memory as well) .

Only joking ;), but seriously, I don’t think what you had in mind is possible: overclocking, without overclocking?

[anikk]

Yeah, magic overclocking! That’s the future.

No. Won’t work. That’s for sure.

P.S.: Jumpers? Mendocino core? :a

No, just kiding!