An examination of DVDRanger CinEx

vbimport

#1

We’ve been given the opportunity to do some testing with the DVDRanger CinEx program. This thread is open for anyone who has the program and wishes to contribute some test encodes.

I am starting off with a simple task for the program instead of going straight to the Cinavia breaking section. This first encode examines the quality of the video conversion from DVDRanger.

Using a decrypted dvd on the hard drive as the source, I decided to convert this movie to H264. Looking through the various options for conversion, the best fit seemed to be Convert to HD within the TV tab of DVDRanger. Of course, a dvd-video is not high definition, and it makes little sense to try to upconvert it to a higher resolution, but DVDRanger does offer a standard definition resolution in this category. I chose HD MP4 (720) HQ 2000kbps AAC/192kbps.

Now, first off, the use of the term HD MP4 would suggest that you are still making a high definition file. That isn’t the case. With this setting, you are going to get a resolution of 720 x 400. The program crops the black borders on top and bottom, and there isn’t a way around that.

The next setting I adjusted was the Performance line. I changed this from Quality to High Quality. So I should be using the program with its best output settings.

The only options for audio using the HD MP4 output were AAC and MP3. You can adjust the bitrate for both, but you cannot use the original AC3 sound. There is no option to pass AC3 through without re-encoding. Edit: Not true. You can keep the original audio…I found the setting eventually. It was staring me in the face in the main window, so it is not a hidden option. I just missed it.

So I started the encode. DVDRanger was impressively quick in converting this dvd-video. It was done in 23 minutes on my machine. Here is the output information from MediaInfo:

Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom
File size                                : 1.93 GiB
Duration                                 : 2h 7mn
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 2 167 Kbps
Writing application                      : Lavf54.4.100

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L3.0
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 4 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 2h 7mn
Bit rate                                 : 2 000 Kbps
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 400 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.290
Stream size                              : 1.78 GiB (92%)
Writing library                          : x264 core 123
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=6 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=4 / chroma_me=0 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=6 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=6 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=40 / rc=abr / mbtree=1 / bitrate=2000 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=4 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=3 / vbv_maxrate=6000 / vbv_bufsize=2000 / nal_hrd=none / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : 40
Duration                                 : 2h 7mn
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 165 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                         : 192 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 151 MiB (8%)

#2

The quality of the video is not too bad, considering that you are using 2000kbps bit rate, and a very fast encoding setting. But there is some softening of the video. Details get a bit blurred out. As I said though, it is an acceptable version and less than half the size of the original movie.

That’s the good news. The bad news is that the audio and video gradually lose sync in this conversion. By the end of the movie, the dialog is trailing the action by more than two seconds. And that is more than annoying, that is an unacceptable result.

By comparison, I used a free tool called Vidcoder to try and match the output size of this same movie. Normally I’d use a CRF encode with Handbrake, but Vidcoder still lets you choose a specific target size if you want. So I aimed for a 2gb output size, similar to the one from DVDRanger. Using a slow, two pass encode, Vidcoder took over two hours to process the movie, but did so in better visual quality and the AAC audio was in sync with the video throughout the movie.

Here is the MediaInfo information for the VidCoder file:

General
Unique ID                                : 292640527461569134987264196025231813333 (0xDC2883F65CEDDFC0B6132F6DE24F2AD5)
Complete name                            : F:\AVS Output\Snow Falling on Cedars - Title 1.mkv
Format                                   : Matroska
Format version                           : Version 2
File size                                : 1.96 GiB
Duration                                 : 2h 7mn
Overall bit rate                         : 2 202 Kbps
Writing application                      : HandBrake 0.9.9
Writing library                          : libmkv 0.6.5

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 8 frames
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration                                 : 2h 7mn
Nominal bit rate                         : 2 004 Kbps
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 400 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 2.110
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.290
Writing library                          : x264 core 130 r2273 b3065e6
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=8 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=9 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=6 / lookahead_threads=1 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=0 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=240 / keyint_min=24 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=60 / rc=2pass / mbtree=1 / bitrate=2004 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / vbv_maxrate=62500 / vbv_bufsize=78125 / nal_hrd=none / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No
Color primaries                          : BT.601 NTSC
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.601

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : A_AAC
Duration                                 : 2h 7mn
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No



#3

My conclusion for this first test is that DVDRanger has sacrificed some visual quality for extreme speed in the encoding process. That’s fine as long as you know beforehand what you are getting. And you have to remember that I was using their program in the “highest quality” setting.

Add to that the complete failure to maintain audio/video synchronization. This alone is enough to discourage most people from trying this program.

I will try demuxing the mp4 file and remuxing with the original AC3 sound. I’m curious to see if it will maintain audio/video sync this way.
Edit: No…much, much worse.


#4

Looks like I may have missed a setting for keeping original audio. I’m trying another movie, this time with a check mark in the box to keep original audio. Lets see if it will keep audio/video sync this time.
Don’t know why I missed it, it is plain to see in the main window.

It is also possible to change the bitrate for the video, but file sizes get rather big when you increase the bitrate.


#5

Good work Kerry . I’m following this thread I just don’t have anything to contribute to it.


#6

The more I work with this program, the more strange the settings seem. I’ve completed another encode to mp4, using the same settings as before, only this time I selected the option to keep the original audio.

Here is the MediaInfo results for this mp4:

General
Complete name                            : F:\AVS Output\DVDRanger Output\Test 2.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom
File size                                : 2.58 GiB
Duration                                 : 2h 45mn
Overall bit rate                         : 2 224 Kbps
Writing application                      : Lavf54.4.100

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L3.0
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 4 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 2h 45mn
Bit rate                                 : 2 054 Kbps
Width                                    : 720 pixels
Height                                   : 400 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.297
Stream size                              : 2.31 GiB (90%)
Writing library                          : x264 core 123
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=6 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=4 / chroma_me=0 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=6 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=6 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=40 / rc=abr / mbtree=1 / bitrate=2054 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=4 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=3 / vbv_maxrate=6162 / vbv_bufsize=2000 / nal_hrd=none / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                 : ac-3
Duration                                 : 1h 24mn
Duration_LastFrame                       : 28ms
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 448 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 270 MiB (10%)

You will notice that the movie running time is two hours and forty-five minutes. This is a long movie and DVDRanger completed the conversion in just over twenty five minutes, so it is really quite fast. Unfortunately, the audio has been cut off at one hour and 24 minutes, for no reason that I can see.

This is a disaster. On the bright side, the audio stayed in sync for as long as it lasted.

Also, DVDRanger will hard encode subtitles into your mp4 file if you don’t stop it when you set up the encode. This is BACKWARDS from virtually every encoding program that I have ever used. If you have subtitles in your original dvd, and you don’t want them irreversibly encoded into the mp4 file you are making, you MUST select Create VobSub in the main window of DVDRanger. This is an unbelievable default behavior.

But leaving off half the audio stream is worse. Another complete and utter failure by this program.


#7

Kerry is the audio track actually half or is the time stamp just incorrect ?


#8

I played it at that point in the movie and the audio simply stops playing.

I could try demuxing it and examining the audio separately.


#9

I demuxed both audio streams, one from the original dvd, one from the new mp4. The mp4 stream stops abruptly at 1:24:22. The original continues to play with no issues.

Original:

General
Complete name                            : F:\Work Folder\Original CCBB audio.ac3
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
File size                                : 532 MiB
Duration                                 : 2h 46mn
Overall bit rate mode                    : Constant
Overall bit rate                         : 448 Kbps

Audio
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Duration                                 : 2h 46mn
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 448 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 532 MiB (100%)

DVDRanger MP4 audio:

General
Complete name                            : F:\Work Folder\Test 2_track2.ac3
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
File size                                : 270 MiB
Duration                                 : 1h 24mn
Overall bit rate mode                    : Constant
Overall bit rate                         : 448 Kbps

Audio
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Duration                                 : 1h 24mn
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 448 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 270 MiB (100%)

#10

Moving on to the next test, I’ve selected one of the only movies I have in blu ray that contains Cinavia. It is the US made version of [I]The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo.[/I]

I first tested the ripped blu ray in Arcsoft TotalMedia Theater 6, which will detect and stop audio playback on Cinavia protected files. It did indeed stop the audio at the 20 minute mark.

I then used DVDRanger to make an mp4 file, and this time used the CinEx module to disguise the audio. I used the Level 3 CinEx setting.

Since I was starting with a blu ray, I selected the highest quality output available using 1080p. I also adjusted the bitrate to a slightly higher average reading than the default setting…going all the way to 8000kbps. And I allowed the program to convert the DTS HD MA audio to AAC format at 192kbps.

The resulting mp4 file is of decent video quality, and nearly 9gb in size. Testing in TMT 6 shows that it will play without triggering the Cinavia detection routine in that player.

The real question here is the audio quality. Despite my earlier problems, the audio stayed in sync with the video in this conversion. And the sound of the audio is vastly improved over DVDRanger’s first efforts in defeating Cinavia. The audio is definitely degraded, any direct comparison with the original shows this clearly, but the dialog is understandable at least. There are still weird effects in background music…I noticed a kind of throbbing sound in a few parts of the movie.

Here are the specifications of the mp4 file:

General
Complete name                            : F:\AVS Output\DVDRanger Output\GWTDT Cinavia test.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom
File size                                : 8.96 GiB
Duration                                 : 2h 38mn
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 8 108 Kbps
Writing application                      : Lavf54.4.100

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames                : 4 frames
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 2h 38mn
Bit rate                                 : 8 000 Kbps
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.161
Stream size                              : 8.77 GiB (98%)
Writing library                          : x264 core 123
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=1 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=umh / subme=3 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=32 / chroma_me=0 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=6 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=6 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=40 / rc=abr / mbtree=1 / bitrate=8000 / ratetol=1.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=4 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=3 / vbv_maxrate=24000 / vbv_bufsize=2000 / nal_hrd=none / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : 40
Duration                                 : 2h 38mn
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 165 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                         : 192 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 187 MiB (2%)

I would rate this test as a partial success, and a giant step forward in DVDRanger’s attempts to defeat Cinavia. The quality of the audio is still not acceptable for anyone used to the sound that is possible in blu ray format, and I’m not convinced it is yet good enough for casual use in portable devices, but if they continue to improve the process, they may be able to satisfy those who don’t need pristine sound quality.


#11

All right, after some technical difficulties, I may have a clip available from this last test so that you can see and hear the results yourself. Its about 19mb in size. Let me know if you cannot access it.

http://upload.cdfreaks.com/Kerry56/GWTDT clip.mp4

For some reason, it isn’t working for me in Firefox, but does in Chrome.
Ah, figured it out, one of my extensions was blocking it.


#12

I ran a 24 minute part of a movie through with the cinex module.
I know he is using reverb.
Also EQ attenuation which is so far expected for cinavia masking.
Then there is something else in there that you also mention, it sounds to me like some kind of compressor or dynamic limiter.
There were some audio “ticks” in the movie part I tried though it wasn’t what I would consider a big deal.

At any rate, I have give him credit for improving it and even trying to come up with a method to do this.
No doubt he has spent a lot of time doing this.
Likely there will be those who want the cinex module in a all-in-one package.

I am sure he would want to know if there are issues about the audio shortcomings on the standard conversions.

Thanks for reports, if I have the time this coming week, I will do a some testing with standard conversion.


#13

I hope the final release doesn’t have these problems…why are they releasing a program that clearly hasn’t been fully tested? They should offer more video adjusting parameters. The resolution settings should be fully customizable…there is no excuse.
And offer AVI with XVID/DIVX too. I believe with a proper tweaking the sound will be more acceptable.

P.S. Steve “EQ attenuation” … what setting is that in Audacity.


#14

I listened to the clip & it is improved over the last movie clip I watched.
To my ears the voices still have a raspy reverb sound with a little lower pitch than the original. Al least I suspect the pitch is lower.

@ Kerry thanks for double checking on the half of the audio track you got.
I don’t remember what I was working on & it was just DVD; I got a shorter time stamp but the audio was there. That was why I asked about the time stamp.

This is a guess but I wonder if cinavia or some other encryption has “split” the main single audio track into two parts. When a software like DVDRanger is used it only gets the first part.


#15

^@cholla
It couldn’t be Cinavia, because that test was on a dvd that doesn’t have that protection. That particular dvd has 7 vob files, and the end of the audio comes just after the 4th vob file starts. I can’t see anything in the structure that would cause this…the program simply lost track of the audio stream.


#16

[QUOTE=Steve33;2704244]I ran a 24 minute part of a movie through with the cinex module.
I know he is using reverb.
Also EQ attenuation which is so far expected for cinavia masking.
Then there is something else in there that you also mention, it sounds to me like some kind of compressor or dynamic limiter.
There were some audio “ticks” in the movie part I tried though it wasn’t what I would consider a big deal.

At any rate, I have give him credit for improving it and even trying to come up with a method to do this.
No doubt he has spent a lot of time doing this.
Likely there will be those who want the cinex module in a all-in-one package.

I am sure he would want to know if there are issues about the audio shortcomings on the standard conversions.

Thanks for reports, if I have the time this coming week, I will do a some testing with standard conversion.[/QUOTE]

I am extremely impressed with your and Kerrys findings. I am also sure that the Developer will thank you for all your help and honest feedback.


#17

[QUOTE=Kerry56;2704308] the program simply lost track of the audio stream.[/QUOTE]

That doesn’t show the program is very good then.
It should be able to handle anything a normal DVD throws at it.


#18

[B]October 19, 2013 [/B]

[B]DVD-Ranger CinEx 5.2.2.6 comes with improvements and fixes and a new, improved Cloud Uploader.[/B]

[B]Changes in DVD-Ranger CinEx 5.2.2.6:[/B]

[B]New! – Fixed memory handling in CinEx module.[/B]
[B]New! – Fixed GUI problems.[/B]
[B]New! – Updated Cloud Uploader.[/B]
[B]New! – Updated Cloud Uploader settings.[/B]
[B]New! – Updated help file.[/B]

[B]With this release we have added a new Cloud service provider to DVD-Ranger. In compare to the old provider, your will save with our new provider Cloud Pop more than 50%. Take a look…[/B]

Download Link
http://www.dvd2hd.com/download/4920/


#19

[QUOTE=Kerry56;2704094].

I will try demuxing the mp4 file and remuxing with the original AC3 sound. I’m curious to see if it will maintain audio/video sync this way.
Edit: No…much, much worse.[/QUOTE]

One thing that I realized is…they are using the “pitch shift (-Lower tone)” mixing it with (CinEx solutions w/ their own filters). Which I posted a while back. Coincidence…?? :smiley: Steal from the little guy…:bigsmile: Or maybe just a astounding coincidence.
Which is resulting them getting better audio quality. More power to them but, please do a better job of not making it obvious. They can’t get the pitch shift to work properly I am guessing.

[B][I]Edited by Administrator. STAY ON TOPIC[/I][/B]


#21

Gentlemen, this thread is an examination of the DVDRanger CinEx program. If you have test encodes to contribute, or if you wish to make pertinent comments on those [B]tests found within the thread[/B], you are certainly welcome to post here.

Off topic comments will be deleted.