AMD RYZEN discussion and benchmarks


#42

Obviously there are big differences in the engineering and manufacturing between the AMD and Intel CPUs but I’ll be extremely interested to see how well both deal with heat and just how hard they will be to keep cool in real world use.

Edit: I’m referring to the AMD Threadripper vs Intel i9 CPUs.


#43

First of all when it comes to the speed of the new intel processor it was exactly where I would expected it to be, especially with the temp that they got with the 10c/20t CPUs, there was not a change that they could push a 18c cpu close to 3.6GHz, it would require some kind of exotic cooling, maybe delidding the CPU would be a must?
But all this are negatives especially on a $2000 CPU .
That leads to pricing, is high and this is something that was expected from intel, plus not many people really need 18c/36t so very few will buy them. Up to this date most gamers will be able to do their job with a 4c/8T or a 6c/12t cpu, also it will take sometime before games will be most cores or threads, so intel can get away with high pricing, plus it not aimed to gamers, but professionals and enthusiast that have more money than brain?

For me all will have to be won or lost on the new z370 chipset, and this will have to do with mainly the pricing of the new CPUs, if they decide to lower the price and get closer to the AMD CPUs then intel could still be the best option for gamers, if not AMD will continue to be the go to CPU when it comes to value for money.
Also if this rumor is true, the fact that intel would want you to get a new motherboard for the new CPUs is another negative for intel, they needed to have a cpu compatible with Z170/Z270 and also Z370 for those that want to have the latest.

Someone can only hope that the people on their marketing department will look at what AMD did, and also how unpleased intel customers are and try to fix that. Pricing is a good starting point.

Threadripper vs. 7980XE would be an interesting battle to watch, but I have to say that i dont care who wins, its something that I have no interest at purchasing, for me the ryzen 7 vs. intel 6c/12t CPU is something much more interesting.


#44

Why I think Intel is in trouble.

First, I’m not an expert on CPU’s or CPU architectures, and what I write here could be completely missing the mark. But I’m basing this on logic, common sense, and how I see things.

The first reason I think Intel are in trouble, is their CPU architecture.
Intel ‘core’ architecture is now in its 7th generation, and will very soon enter the 8th generation of the Intel ‘core’ architecture. Despite the new generations, the basic ‘core’ architecture remains the same. They improve parts, and bolt bits on, but the basic architecture is still the same.

Intel has been unchallenged for about a decade, so there was no need for them to spend large amounts of money developing a new CPU architecture.

AMD on the other hand realised four years ago that the architecture that they were using was quite frankly rubbish compared to Intel’s ‘core’ architecture, lagging some 60% in terms of IPC performance when compared to Intel’s ‘core’ architecture. So AMD started with a clean sheet of paper, when they started out with their ZEN architecture. At the time, AMD announced that they would bring a 40% gain in IPC performance from their ZEN architecture. Intel made fun of them, stating that AMD didn’t have the expertise to bring about such an advancement in IPC performance. In actual fact, ZEN has a 52% gain in IPC performance over their old architecture.

This still leaves ZEN some 8% behind Intel, but Intel must have got the shock of their lives, when AMD made such high gains. You should also take into consideration that AMD RyZen is the first generation of the ZEN architecture, with ZEN 2 on target to come to market some time in 2018, built on an 7nm node size. In fact they could beat Intel to the market for a sub 14nm chip.
You would expect AMD to make further significant IPC gains, in Zen 2, just like Intel made with the 2nd and 3rd generation ‘core’ CPU’s, simply because the ZEN architecture is new, and you would expect there to be room for improvement.

In contrast, Intel’s ‘core’ architecture is now getting very long in the tooth, and they have had very little gains in IPC performance in recent generations of ‘core’. I personally think they have now hit a brick wall with ‘core’ and they need to set about designing a brand new CPU architecture. If they do take this route, that wont come to market for several years. Perhaps not as long as four years, but it wont appear tomorrow.

In the mean time, RyZen is modern, its a infant, and has loads of room to grow. But even now, it has some fantastic new technologies in the ZEN architecture, like ‘Infinity Fabric’ which is like a ultra high speed network (150GB/s) 256bit data path with ultra low latency, connecting one part of the CPU to the other. Then there is ‘SENSEMl’ which uses advanced AI, to predict what the CPU will be doing next, and loads that data into its ultra high speed cache.

The second reason I think Intel are in trouble.
Intel makes very neat CPU’s, lets take their new SkyLake X CPU’s with up to 18 cores. It’s in a very neat package, nice and small. :slight_smile:
They are packing 18 cores into that tiny package, and then connecting it to the cooling solution via a metal heat spreader, which is relying on a TIM for thermal conductivity between the CPU die and the heat spreader. :slight_smile:
So somehow they will have to transfer the heat away from the CPU cores, from a small surface area which doesn’t make very good thermal contact with the CPU die.

Intel made fun of AMD when they announced RyZen Thread Ripper, saying they had simply glued two Ryzen CPU dies together and put them in a single large package. That part is true, but Intel failed to mention that they would be glued together with ‘Infinity Fabric’, and with that large CPU package, AMD RyZen Thread Ripper, would have more than twice the surface area to transfer away the heat compared to Intel SkyLake X, and that those AMD RyZen cores would be soldered to the very large heat spreader, insuring the optimum heat transfer between the CPU die and the outside world…

Adding to that, RyZen is very much more energy efficient than SkyLake X. A lot of people only think of energy efficiency, as meaning the CPU will be cheaper to run in regards to the amount of fuel it consumes. But that isn’t the end of the story. The more energy a CPU consumes, the more heat it produces, heat that has to be taken away from the CPU. It’s simple physics, the larger the surface area, the more heat you can transfer to the outside world.
So which one would you think would be the easiest one to cool, AMD Thread Ripper or SkyLake X?

Then there is price, the third reason I think Intel are in trouble.
When Intel launch Coffee Lake with its 6 core variant, they will no doubt claim that they have brought 6 core CPU’s to mainstream computing. Sorry Intel, you don’t decide what is mainstream, price decides what is mainstream, and AMD have already brought very competitive high performance 6 and 8 core CPU’s to the mainstream in the shape of RyZen R5 and RyZen R7.

One thing is for sure. It’s going to be interesting to see the test results from AMD RyZen Thread Ripper when compared to Intel’s 14 to 18 core SkyLake X CPU’s. I’m looking forward to them going head to head.


#45

AMD Threadripper 1950X at 4.1 GHz base clock using liquid cooling. Very promising. :slight_smile:

Source: http://www.fudzilla.com/news/processors/44260-amd-threadripper-1950x-hits-4-1ghz-on-liquid-cooling

On the other side of things are some issues with Linux and early Ryzen chips…

Sources:

Do a search for “Ryzen linux fault” and you should find more.


#46

Intel makes nice CPUs. But let’s be honest. When you’re charging anywhere from $200-1000 more than AMD for the same performance, what do you expect?


#47

So the first reviews for the 1950 threadripper are now available.

My first thoughts are very positive, excellent pricing, outstanding performance as long as you can use 16c/32t.
Power consumption is high when overclocked, but that was expected. Also its nice to have a, so called, gaming mode, since from what some games simply refuse to load if the see more than 20 thread, somthing thing that shows that games are not optimized for many threads.
Single threaded performance was also expected to be lower that the intel CPU. Temperature was also another plus, and with the release of cooler that have been designed for the TR4, i will assume that the CPU could have even lower temps.

Now lets wait and see how the Intel CPUs will do against the AMD Ryzen threadripper,
I am more interested in heat and power consumption.


#48

I guess this about says it all.


#49

Thats all good, but the question for me is, how many people need that many threads on their CPU, those that can utilize all those threads will be more than happy with the 1950.
Nice to see AMD having great CPUs and also with a very attractive pricing.

I am still waiting for the 18C/32t intel CPU, that one will be a VS that i would love to see, and how much the lower speed of the intel CPU can impact the overall performance.


#50

The AMD RyZen Threadripper is certainly extremely fast, but to take advantage of its max performance would require a workload that I would reckon 99% of us here would never utilise.
Even Handbrake won’t fully engage all those cores.

On another note. I’ve had to back down my RyZen 1700 overclock from 3.8GHz down to 3.6GHz, as its very warm here at the moment, and the Wraith Spire cooler was struggling. 3.6GHz is still very good for a stock cooler though.

I borrowed a NZXT Kraken X62 from my dad, just to see how that would cope. Without any effort I was able to get the RyZen 1700 to 3.95GHz, with a temp max of 61C.

I don’t particularly like AIO water coolers, but at least this one is very quiet on the ‘silent’ setting that I was using, and the NZXT CAM software, which I didn’t install would allow excellent customization.

I think I may get one, but that would mean a new case, as it won’t fit in my Antec P180.
We are currently debating a case, which is silent and with good airflow. It looks like this might be my first ever positive pressure build.

At the moment the likely choice is the Fractal Design Define S (windowed). It will allow the Kraken X62 to be mounted in the case front, with an additional 120mm or 140mm fan positioned to cool the VRM’s, and there is only one 140mm fan extracting air, so the case will most certainly be positive pressure.

The case has no optical bays, and only 5 HDD bays, so we are investigating where I can mount my other 3 SSDs.


#51

Either you put them on somewhere in the bottom front that would possible be seen from the front window.
Somewhere at the bottom would be my number one choice since they want be seen, and if all goes well you should still have enough room for cable management.
Worst case, you use double sided tape and put them on top of each other on the 3.5 bays. Not the best idea but this way you should be able to use them all, and again they want be seen from any one.


#52

I like that case Wendy but its only got 1 front 140mm fan , my Corsair box has 3X140mm fans in the front and moves air quite nicely. You really love those Fractal Cases. Why dont go go over to the EKWB site and buy some PETG and a res and a rad and a D5 pump. ( you will need a tube cutter and a heat gun for the bends, but if you get compression fittings you wont have to worry about any leaks either. Then you can pump that baby up to over 4.5 without an issue I bet.


#53

It will have 3 140mm front fans once the cooler is fitted, but one would be enough anyway. It’s airflow in the case that counts rather than the amount of fans.
I like the Fractal Design, Define series of cases because they are great to work with, and totally silent. I also like their understated looks.
Plus, at £74, one cant grumble about the cost.

I also don’t want dedicated water cooling. In fact i’m still not 100% sure about an AIO water cooler, as they still introduce water in an environment when water is certainly not welcome. :slight_smile:
Plus, I’ve never seen any RyZen R7 go above 4.1 GHz unless the core voltage is crazy high and on LN2 cooling.
The NZXT Kraken X62 is overkill for this CPU, but I’m also thinking of the future.

I think I’ve also found the perfect solution to mounting my extra three SSDs. These caddies will go into the 3 3.5 HHD mounts, to give 6 SSDs there, and the other two on the two dedicated SSD’s mounts.

I think I’ll probably order up the stuff.

@alan1476
If you have your RyZen system up and running, lets see some benches, :stuck_out_tongue:


#54

I m still waiting for my son to help me set up the workbench. LOL He is in Colorado on business, and where I live people are are not nice, no one helps an old man with anything. Without my boy I would be lost.


#55

[quote=“alan1476, post:54, topic:398781”]
and where I live people are are not nice, no one helps an old man with anything.
[/quote]This seems to be how things are now. People are much more inclined to keep themselves to themselves. People are certainly not as caring as they used to be, IMO.

I build my rigs on the breakfast bar, with a mat to protect the worktop.

I’ve ordered up the stuff.
NZXT Kraken X62 cooler.
Fractal Design, Define S with window.
NZXT internal USB hub ( I need this to use the CAM software on the Kraken, as the only internal USB2 header on the mobo is already in use).
3X of the 3.5 inch to 2.5 inch converter brackets.


#56

I have the build in the new case.
It turned out I didn’t need the HDD converter brackets for mounting 2x SSD in each bracket,
I have 5 SSDs mounted in the default drive bays at the back of the motherboard.
On the reverse side of the 3x HDD mounting bays are slots for installing dedicated water cooling gear. The slots were a perfect match for installing a further 3 SSD’s vertically. You can see them through the case side window, but they look quite neat.
I’ll take some pictures later once I get the cables all tidy. :slight_smile:

The NZXT Kraken X62 is a beast of a cooler, and set in silent mode, the fans spin at only 25% so they are inaudible in this silenced PC case.
The neat thing about the Kraken is. You can set the fan profile to react to the ‘liquid temps’ rather than just the CPU temp. That means the fans spin at a constant speed unless the liquid temp rises above 40c or whatever temp you’ve set it at, and don’t jump up and down speed wise when you get a small increase in CPU temp. The optimum liquid temp is 40c or lower.
You can see the Kraken stats in picture 3 which shows the NZXT CAM software.

My RyZen R7 1700 can do 3.95Ghz easy with this cooler, as you can see from the temps in pic3, but to get any higher than 3.95GHz requires more vcore than the recommended safe limit of 1.425V.

Perhaps, a more mature BIOS will allow faster, as the Kraken X62 cooler certainly isn’t the limiting factor.

Click on the picture above to see the benchmarks.

<img src="/uploads/db9252/original/4X/e/f/2/ef253c5b36b5ec13d585d662471c5b4aa3b7cbe2.PNG"width=“501” height=“500”>


#57

I just built (3 days ago) a new Ryzen build! I needed a new computer since hurricane Irma decided to kill my old one (motherboard died), so I went with the Ryzen 7 1700, and an ASRock Fatal1ty X370 GAMING X board,CORSAIR Vengeance LED 16GB (2 x 8GB) RAM (gotta keep things looking cool), and SAMSUNG 850 EVO 2.5" 500GB SATA III drive. I read that Microsoft was no longer supporting Windows 7 with new hardware including the AMD Ryzen so I took it as a challenge. The install was interesting since USB was recognized in bios setup but otherwise was non available. Like many of you I’ve built a lot of computers over the years and fortunately ASRock includes a PS2 port, so I grabbed a PS2 keyboard and did the install. At first Windows 7 updated everything but then afterwards I got a Microsoft popup telling me that my hardware required a newer version of Windows meaning Windows 10. I get that Microsoft would prefer to have everyone on Windows 10 but so far they’ve failed to make their case, and Cortana wasn’t a convincing point. I did some research and as of May, 2017 Windows 7 comprises 48.67% of all operating systems and Windows 10 26% So far the Windows 7 install is rock solid but mostly with legacy software and devices that can’t be replaced.

I build to play some games, but mostly to work with images and video capture, copy, and creation and for that the Ryzen is a far better deal than Intel’s best offerings. I compressed a DVD with Handbrake to Matroska in under 12 minutes, and that’s to me reveals the benefit of having eight solid cores to work with.


#58

@Sophocles

If you can do what you want/need with windows 7 then there is not reason to move forward. Not sure at what point windows 10 and directx12 would probably require people to switch to a newer OS, but that has to do more with the game developers.

Enjoy our new system.


#59

It’s nice to hear someone else is enjoying RyZen.

Regarding Windows 7 It seems fine if you can get all the drivers, but you will be missing some features when compared to Windows 10.
DX12 is one as vroom pointed out, but there are others which I’m still investigating.
One feature I know will be missing is the advanced power state management that Windows 10 offers. This has an effect on RyZen’s advanced P-states, especially when overclocking.

It’s also worth keeping in mind that RyZen is optimised for Windows 10.


#60

I have a 1700X @ 4.1 ghz with 1.44 volts which is within the 1.45 tolerance , very nice machine To be honest

16gb of 8 pack ram clocked at 3200 mhz for now


#61

I realize that I may in time be forced to move to Windows 10, but I’m not one who enjoys being coerced into anything and this is really what Microsoft is doing. I find their current track defeatist since even now there are almost two Windows 7 users to one Windows 10 user. Windows 7 is still available for sale and if we exclude preinstalled machines, it is still outselling Windows 10. I’m also a Linux user and I might choose to dump Windows altogether and stick with Linux because either way I will have to move to Windows 10, or settle for Windows 7 and Linux workarounds to use the software I favor. I also have a lot of stored legacy hardware which I could use to make a build to support all the software that I refuse to let go of such as SnapStreams BeyondTV. Dee, as far as I can tell thus far drivers aren’t the problem, because all of my hardware appears to be functioning as it should. I will no doubt lose some Ryzen processor functions but I suppose that’s to be expected for now.