After the TY rot debate

vbimport

#1

Hi All

I know the TY rot debate is still on going but…

After TYs what would be your next choice of blank CDR be?

Are Ridisk any good ?

Washac


#2

Mitsui Gold? Those things are much more resistant to oxidation than your typical disc.

Also Verbatim (made in Singapore by MCC) would be a good choice.


#3

I’ve found my pthalocyanine-dye Ritek discs have held up quite well, even looking at those from late 1999 through 2000. I’m not sure if you meant “Ritek” (which are good) or “Ridisc” (which is a European brand which used to be Ritek, but Ritek has since dropped them – see this post).

I’ll recommend Ritek CD-Rs, but I’d stick with their own Ridata brand to be sure of high-quality discs. I’ve had good experiences with CompUSA-branded Ritek discs (which they don’t make anymore; newer CompUSA discs are from a crappier manufacturer, IIRC), TDK-branded Ritek discs, and Samsung-branded Ritek discs. However, I probably wouldn’t choose TDK after the TY rot issue, and some of the worst discs I’ve ever used have been cyanine-type CMC-manufactured Samsung discs. My Memorex-branded Ritek discs have not been as good as some of the others. I’m currently using Ridata branded 48x CD-Rs purchased from newegg.com, and I have another spindle of 50 Ridata unbranded matte 48x discs that I got free after rebate from Radio Shack. I go through CD-Rs very slowly these days, however, so I won’t need to buy any more CD-Rs for quite a while.

All of my CD-Rs burned in 1997-1998 that were made with real gold are still readable. Of course, some of those were purchased when there was a global CD-R shortage and I remember paying $6 or $7 for a single blank in a jewel case. Things in the CD-R world have certainly changed since then.

Jucius_Maximus, do they still make Mitsui Gold discs? I thought they didn’t anymore. The only gold/gold discs I can find are these.


#4

I’ve only had positive results with Ritek-made discs (mostly labeled as “Philips”). Even after 2 years or so they don’t show an increase in C1 rates. I also like Fuji-made discs, which are well made and have very low and up to now constant C1 rates on my Plextor Premium. I don’t know where you live, but in Europe they are available as 10-packs with “made in Germany” printed on it. AFAIK, in the US they are not available, you only get Ritek or TY labeled as Fuji there. I can also second Jucius_Maximus’ recommendation of Mitsui and Verbatim DataLifePlus (DLP). As regards DLP, I’ve made good experiences with the “made in India” and “made in Mexico” ones, but the “made in EU” ones were not very good (bad C1 rates (about 7-8/s), bad production quality (some discs had holes in the “Crystal” coating)). If you can get your hands on some HiSpace/MPO Gold, you can also try these. At least they are advertising them as being excellent for long-term storage, but this really only time can tell :wink:

I guess your choice depends on which discs your burner likes best. After my painful experiences with TY (which I trusted blindly before), I’ve opted for a healthy mix of media from different manufacturers (those mentioned above) who generally enjoy a good reputation and which work fine with my burner.


#5

All CDR’s fail, it’s just a matter of when. There’s no reason not to stick with TY. We’ve seen similar reports on every media type, but very few on TY.


#6

Ive been using 52x Philips branded Moser Baer India discs, i buy them in 75’s and each spindle has its own burn speed preference sometiems it changes halfway through the box but they give me decent results, usually they prefer either 16x/24x/52x if i burn them at any other speed the errors skyrocket so i end up losing a few discs trying to find the sweetspot for the burn speed but once i do they burn pretty good heres a scan of a typical disc.

Burned at 52x and scanned at 52x

EDIT- buy them from my local market for £10 used to be £9 but they jacked it up the b*stards!


#7

Well, there is always a highly subjective element as to what you trust and what you don’t trust. I’m sure that you also wouldn’t want to use TY any more if you had to re-burn one third of your TY discs because they were rotting like old vegetables. If it happens to other people, it’s always so remote :wink:


#8

Apparently yes, though it could be some old stock from the 90s for all we know.

Looks like gold-colored CMC crap. There is no guarantee that the recording layer is really gold, and I had some Phillips-branded CMC disks that looked just like that (though of different color).


#9

And if you burned a few hundred TY CD-Rs and they read back perfectly years later, you would have a chuckle or two reading this thread. Not at your/washac’s misfortunes, but at The sky is falling! conclusions that are drawn.

So, a dozen or two disks turned out to be bad. A drop in the ocean. The main benefit using top quality media like Taiyo Yuden is that cases like the ones described are extremely rare. Opt for a “healthy mix” of different manufacturers - Moser Baer, eh? =) - and get a healthy increase in the chances of your media going south. Simple statistics.


#10

Yes, but your logic could as easily be used to say that CDR’s are all unreliable, which is more to the point. People trust TY based on experience, lots of experience with it.

The type of problem being discussed as “rot” is as old as CD’s themselves, and is due to poor manufacturing which allows air to get to the dye or foil inside the disc. I would be interested in seeing a complete media code from an affected disc, which nobody has yet posted AFAIK.


#11

rdgrimes, here’s the code from one of the the TDKs:

ATIP:              97m 24s 01f
Disc Manufacturer: Taiyo Yuden Company Ltd.
Reflective layer:  Dye (Long strategy; e.g. Cyanine, Azo etc.)
Media type:        CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds:  min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity:  656.40MB (74m 43s 00f / LBA: 336075)

and from one of the Fujifilms:

ATIP:              97m 24s 01f
Disc Manufacturer: Taiyo Yuden Company Ltd.
Reflective layer:  Dye (Long strategy; e.g. Cyanine, Azo etc.)
Media type:        CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds:  min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity:  702.83MB (79m 59s 74f / LBA: 359849)

#12

I didn’t bring up Moser Baer. In fact, I have not a single disc made by Moser Baer. As for statistics, if you only use discs from one manufacturer you have a higher probability of all your discs failing within a certain amount of time as opposed to diversifying. If you diversify, you have a higher chance of some of your media failing. I guess it’s a matter of personal taste, but to me the second option seems preferable. Of course, diversifying with Nan-Ya or CMC or whatever which are known for failing within months does not help.
From the limited experiences we have concerning long-term stability of CD media (I’m talking about decades), any manufacturer’s discs could be among the worst choices. I guess those accelerated aging tests (like this) may give a general idea about the main issues, but they may also be totally irrelevant for real-life long-term storage, I don’t know.


#13

I’m not sure what the above disc is, but it doesn’t compare with any TY I’ve seen. A blank disc is better for ATIP info. Is it by chance some old 650MB media?

and from one of the Fujifilms:
ATIP: 97m 24s 01f
Disc Manufacturer: Taiyo Yuden Company Ltd.
Reflective layer: Dye (Long strategy; e.g. Cyanine, Azo etc.)
Media type: CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds: min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity: 702.83MB (79m 59s 74f / LBA: 359849)

This is standard 16x TY media, made a number of years ago and later re-branded as 24x by several labels.

It’s probably not reasonable to compare this older media with current TY 48x stuff.


#14

All my rotting TYs are 48x discs. I can post the full ATIP later.


#15

I bought a sample Mitsui Gold CD from blankmedia.ca about a month ago. It’s 52x-rated so it can’t be that old. I can post a scan of it as soon as I burn it. It has to be the ugliest CD I have ever seen, but the data longevity is what matters.


#16

TY and rot is not new…
A few years ago when CD-R burning was still new there where many TYs with GOLD as reflective layer which did rot very fast…
I had some which already where damaged when opening the package.
But that was only with some batches.


#17

Yes, it’s an old 74min (650MB) TDK-branded TY disc, purchased (and written) sometime around May 2001.

FWIW, the ATIP of my older (prehistoric?) Maxell and Imation-branded TY discs from the 1996-1998 era have a different ATIP:

ATIP:              97m 24s 00f
Disc Manufacturer: Taiyo Yuden Company Ltd.
Reflective layer:  Dye (Long strategy; e.g. Cyanine, Azo etc.)
Media type:        CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds:  min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity:  656.40MB (74m 43s 00f / LBA: 336075)

Note that these were discs made using real gold, and they still read fine. I have no complaints about them at all.


#18

In my case, the decay only happened some 2-3 years after burning the discs. Does anyone have any “current TY 48x stuff” that’s been around 2-3 years already?

I don’t mean to be argumentative, but someday, our “new” media is going to be old. Who knows if it will be readable then?


#19

CD manufacturing has made huge improvements. One of the areas of improvement is in the way the discs get sealed with lacquer at the edges. Earlier CDR’s did not have these advantages. So yes, I think you can expect much longer life from the newer discs. That’s not to say that some batches may fall short in this area. The fact remains that TY is still one of the best bets for quality discs. And it also remains true that optical media is not “archival quality” in general terms, and never has been.


#20

With my affected TY 48x (bought ~end of 2003), the beginning of corrosion was visible already a few weeks after purchasing and burning, for other ones it took some months. I think if the area around the hub is really badly made like in my case, it does not take 3 years for the corrosion to begin. I have some older TY 40x from about the end of 2002, and a few of them look a bit strange at the hub, this may be the first signs of corrosion starting…