Advice needed for upgrading pc

vbimport

#1

First off I have to say it has been a while since I really dove head first into the whole pc hardware scene so forgive me if I sound like somewhat of a retard…that being said my current sys is in my sig, I know its outdated so I wanted to upgrade it. My real goal is being able to play Left 4 Dead with my friends and maybe have a little bit of room left over if I wanna play somethin else.

http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K8N_Neo4-F&class=mb
^^ Mobo specs.

Firstly, I am upgrading the ram to at least 3GB (maybe 4GB but haven’t decided yet). This is a no brainer to me.

The questions come in when I am looking for cpus/v-cards. The mobo has one pcie 16x slot.

So perhaps someone could suggest a couple of pcie 16x v-cards for me with a cost of around $100. I found these…

GeForce 9800 GT
or
GeForce 9600GT

^^^ The 96 has the edge in core clock (by 50MHz), shader clock (by 125MHz), memory bandwidth (same @ 57.6GB/s but lower price) and pixel fill rate (by 800MPixels/s).

The 98 has the edge in FLOPS (336 GFLOPS vs 208 GFLOPS) and texture fill rate (336 GTexels/s vs 208 GTexels/s), shader processors (112 [128] vs 64) and texture units (56 [64] vs 32).

Leaning toward the 9600GT as its $35 cheaper and seems like it will do the job. The L4D requirements is ps version 2.0. Each of these cards run ps 4.0.

http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=575&card2=557
^^Info found here…

Also given the mobo, what cpu would you suggest with a price tag of ~$100. Was thinkin Athlon 64x2 6000+ which averages speeds ~3GHz as the requirement for L4D is a 3GHz processor. The 32 bit version of xp will be fine with this right??

TIA for any help/suggestions. :iagree:


#2

Don’t bother getting anything new for a Socket 939 system, you’re better off getting new hardware.
//Danne


#3

So even spending $200-$250 on my system to make it much faster would be pointless??
I would rather do that than spend $800-$1000 on a completely new system. Honestly I don’t really feel like building/paying for a new system.


#4

Spending money on getting a faster CPU for the S939 is pointless unless you can find an Opteron 185 for 50 bucks or below (which I highly doubt). DDR1 RAM is more expensive than DDR2 and you’ll most likely run into compatibility issues if you want to run 2Gb (or more) at 400Mhz.

A new mobo, cpu (noticeably faster than an Opteron 185 which is the most powerful CPU for S939), ram and video card ends up at ~350$

GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2HP
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128360
POWERCOLOR AX4850 512MD3-DH Radeon HD 4850 512MB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131125
mushkin 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory (2X)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146773
AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ 3.1GHz Socket AM2 89W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103272
346$ at newegg.com :slight_smile:

If you want a cheaper video card go for a 4670 but its quite a bit slower…
//Danne


#5

You should do some cost estimate of what your part that you like to get would cost you in the end and that should at least tell you if the money your spending would better spent on getting on a higher grade system or building a newer rig for better performance. I for one would say do this first and you should get a better handle on what your options are before shelling out any money.


#6

^^^ Thanks for the help Diizzy. I’ll look into that. The only problem is that I know I will need another ps and I don’t just wanna scrap my other pc so I will need another case as well. That will b another $150-$200 depending on how nice a ps and case I want. That will take my total up to $500-$550 when it’s all said and done. :frowning:

[QUOTE=coolcolors;2184748]You should do some cost estimate of what your part that you like to get would cost you in the end and that should at least tell you if the money your spending would better spent on getting on a higher grade system or building a newer rig for better performance. I for one would say do this first and you should get a better handle on what your options are before shelling out any money.[/QUOTE]

^^^ Did you read what we have written or did you just read the title and make a post. We have been discussing the costs of upgrading vs. building a new system.


#7

I agree with DiiZzY. The old Socket 939 systems are effectively limited to 2GB maximum without having to slow down the memory speed (not that it would make a meaningful difference in real-world performance; after all, a drop from DDR400 to DDR333 barely impacts real-world performance on AMD platforms, but filling up more than two memory slots on the motherboard would also force a loosening of the Command Rate from 1T to 2T, which would affect system performance even more than a mere drop in memory speed from 400 to 333). And DDR1 memory which those older systems use now costs nearly double that of DDR2 memory that most recent systems use (per GB). And try getting 2GB modules which would work at all in your system; nearly all of the 2GB DDR1 modules are “registered” (which will not work properly, if you can get them to even work at all, on your system which is designed for “unbuffered” modules), and the few 2GB “unbuffered” modules ever available are all ECC (which Socket 939 does support) and far more expensive per GB than any 1GB module. And the Socket 939 dual-channel memory controller does not play nice with three modules installed (but does work reliably with one, two or four perfectly matched modules), nor does it play nice with mixed memory modules. Worst of all, had you put in even the fastest CPU available for that socket, your system’s real-world performance won’t be anywhere near that much faster than your current setup; in fact, it might be slower than most of today’s systems (even low-end ones) except for gaming (where the faster graphics card makes some meaningful difference).


#8

[QUOTE=RJL65;2185563]I agree with DiiZzY. The old Socket 939 systems are effectively limited to 2GB maximum without having to slow down the memory speed (not that it would make a meaningful difference in real-world performance; after all, a drop from DDR400 to DDR333 barely impacts real-world performance on AMD platforms, but filling up more than two memory slots on the motherboard would also force a loosening of the Command Rate from 1T to 2T, which would affect system performance even more than a mere drop in memory speed from 400 to 333). And DDR1 memory which those older systems use now costs nearly double that of DDR2 memory that most recent systems use (per GB). And try getting 2GB modules which would work at all in your system; nearly all of the 2GB DDR1 modules are “registered” (which will not work properly, if you can get them to even work at all, on your system which is designed for “unbuffered” modules), and the few 2GB “unbuffered” modules ever available are all ECC (which Socket 939 does support) and far more expensive per GB than any 1GB module. And the Socket 939 dual-channel memory controller does not play nice with three modules installed (but does work reliably with one, two or four perfectly matched modules), nor does it play nice with mixed memory modules. Worst of all, had you put in even the fastest CPU available for that socket, your system’s real-world performance won’t be anywhere near that much faster than your current setup; in fact, it might be slower than most of today’s systems (even low-end ones) except for gaming (where the faster graphics card makes some meaningful difference).[/QUOTE]

Thanks a lot for the very informative post. In this case I might as well just keep my old system add 1GB of ram and use it for burning/lower end games/internet/downloading and build a new system. I was looking at some cpu benchmarks and it looks as though Intel chips are much faster in general than amd chips currently.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php

^^^ Is this fairly accurate?? If so would anyone care to suggest the line of intel chip I should go with now that would work pretty well but will allow for me to upgrade to a better cpu later?? It would be much appreciated. If I know where to start (socket wise) I can pick the rest of the build accordingly. Thanks guys. :smiley:


#9

After a bit of lookin around it looks as though the top contenders for me should be either AMD’s socket AM2+ or Intel’s LGA 775. Sound about right??


#10

If you’re building a new system for go Intel E8400/E8500/E7***-series and also go for motherboard with Intel chipset.
//Danne


#11

Ok, so this is what I have come up with so far:

Mobo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128359
CPU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115036
RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227289
Hard Drive(s)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152052

Now I need a bit of advice on what gpu (trying to stay around $120) and power supply to get.

Will this case/ps combo be ok??
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.151549

And lastly perhaps someone could suggest a vid card for ~$100-$120. TIA. :slight_smile:


#12

Ok, would you rather have a nvidia 9800GT or a radeon hd4850?? These seem to be fairly comparable cards around the same price range.

So which vcard between those two and what ps???


#13

For compatibility reason at least I would go with memory that runs at 1.8V such as this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146731

As for video card go for a Radeon 4830
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131129
//Danne


#14

[QUOTE=DiiZzY;2192271]For compatibility reason at least I would go with memory that runs at 1.8V such as this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146731

As for video card go for a Radeon 4830
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131129
//Danne[/QUOTE]

Thanks, I didn’t realize there was a compatibility issue with running ram that takes 2.1V.

As for the ps, I read through the user manual and it said that a 500W ps was required. If I go with a decent brand of 500W ps like Antec, Thermaltake or Rosewill I should be good no??

Something like this?..
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.152673


#15

Everything that doesn’t run at 1.8V isn’t within JEDEC specs so you’re on your own if you get something that doesnt comply.

I wouldn’t go for Rosewill, most likely because it’s a no-name brand (afaik it’s Newegg’s own brand). A quality Seasonic PSU isn’t much more expensive and a 430W will be more than enough to power your system.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151033
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119068
A bit more expensive but it’s a very good combo IMHO
//Danne


#16

[QUOTE=DiiZzY;2192671]Everything that doesn’t run at 1.8V isn’t within JEDEC specs so you’re on your own if you get something that doesnt comply.

I wouldn’t go for Rosewill, most likely because it’s a no-name brand (afaik it’s Newegg’s own brand). A quality Seasonic PSU isn’t much more expensive and a 430W will be more than enough to power your system.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151033
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119068
A bit more expensive but it’s a very good combo IMHO
//Danne[/QUOTE]

TY very much for all the help. It is much appreciated.

Since I have been so out of the pc world for a while I was doing some reading wrt ps and how much current should be supported on each of the +12V rails. Most of the sources I found stated that there should be no less than 18A on each +12V rail. This ps has 17A on each of the two +12V rails and delivers 430W of total power instead of 500W (I know that you say 430W is enough and I believe you). Is the current delivered of 17A good enough? I read through the mobo and cpu docs and didnt see any spec other than 500W+ ps required. Any thoughts?


#17

Went with exactly what you suggested. This is what I got:

-GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3R LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard
-Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core
-ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler
-Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s
-Mushkin 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit
-POWERCOLOR AX4830 512MD3-H Radeon HD 4830 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCIE 2.0 x16
-SeaSonic S12 II SS-430GB 430W ATX12V V2.3
-Pioneer 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black IDE Model DVR-116DBK
-Sony Optiarc AD-7220S

Only problem is I bought to much ram. -_-

I got 8gigs like an idiot not even thinkin that win xp only supports 4gigs.

Would xp 64 pro be a good choice? TY.


#18

Nice rig, you’re better off with Vista 64-bit if you’re going the 64-bit route…
//Danne


#19

[QUOTE=DiiZzY;2236705]Nice rig, you’re better off with Vista 64-bit if you’re going the 64-bit route…
//Danne[/QUOTE]

Thanks. :slight_smile:

Is there any particular reason I should go with vista instead of xp?? Is 64 bit vista that much better than the xp counterpart?


#20

It works better and has way better driver support. :slight_smile:
//Danne