Adding Files to a CloneCD Image!

:rolleyes:

Basically what Im looking to do is make a 1:1 copy of a game with the protection on the copy but also add a folder with the game patches.

Its a fucking headache looking for a game patch when all I need to do is just add it on the Image file and burn…

Now is this possible?

With WinISO 5 I cant open a CCD image file but I can convert to ISO… With that said would there be a problem if I did that and added the files and burnt a copy with Nero or another Burning App? Would I lose the ability to create a 1:1 copy in otherwords?

Hope I can get some of the technical Freaks to give me a hand! :cool:

Simply put: it cannot be done. And why should it be possible? CloneCD was intended for 1:1 copies so cracks/patches aren’t necessary anymore. If you want to use a patch or crack you should copy all the files of the game to your harddisk, make a new folder with the crack in it and burn the files with Nero or any other program to a CD-R…

Well today I wanted to do this. Copy max payne which already has a crack folder. What I do is put the crack in the installation directory after install and it works without cd. So I am assuming that the crack is a no cd crack. Now I found this patch max payne 1.02 and I wanna know what this does and how do I burn it in the new cd which I am gonna make. I have read the above post which suggests copy the game to hd but as far as my knowledge clone cd is needed to repair data which is sd2 protected. Let me know asap if i aM wrong and how to do it.
thanks

Yes you got it all wrong: your game has already been cracked so the SafeDisc 2 protection (error sectors) is no longer present on the disc. Well the SafeDisc 2 check is still there but the error sectors are gone so you need the crack to bypass the check. CloneCD cannot repair any SafeDisc 2 sectors. It was intended to make a 1:1 copy of the original game with its SafeDisc 2 error sectors still intact. When you make a back-up this way you can use the new update patches without any problems.

Now when you have a cracked game and you install the update it will enable the SafeDisc 2 check again so you will need a new crack which will bypass this update again. You can place this new crack (I don’t know if its available though) on the CD-R like I described above.

I hiope you understand what I mean… If not post again!

So what you are saying is now for this specific game I do not need Clone cd. I can just copy paste the files to the hard drive and then to cdr?

But how do u explain a week ago tried to copy this copy of max payne and my creative dvd drive would not read it(ricoh drive).

Which leads me to belive that the safe disc errors are duplicated. Also after I used clone to make another back up it worked in creative dvd drive.
Now I am really confused

So how exactly would you copy paste the files of max payne cd to hard drive and add extra files and then burn them to cdr in this case if I have to use clone?
thanks for the help

Originally posted by Mrsash
So what you are saying is now for this specific game I do not need Clone cd. I can just copy paste the files to the hard drive and then to cdr?
Yes for this particulair game the protection has already been screwed up so you would need a crack no matter what. Of course you could still use CloneCD to make a 1:1 copy but you wouldn’t be able to add a crack (or different file) to the CD-R.

Originally posted by Mrsash
But how do u explain a week ago tried to copy this copy of max payne and my creative dvd drive would not read it(ricoh drive).
Well because Ricoh doesn’t support SafeDisc 2. It cannot handle it.

Originally posted by Mrsash
Which leads me to belive that the safe disc errors are duplicated. Also after I used clone to make another back up it worked in creative dvd drive.
No the errors aren’t duplicated. If they were the copy would work. I agree it’s very weird that a back-up of a back-up suddenly does work, but it could be that you used the latest CloneCD version ? This latest version has better error handlding and wills ometimes produce a working SafeDisc 2 back-up when it shouldn’t … Sound a bit weird but here’s the newsposting on this matter.

Let’s get this straight: SafeDisc 2 has errors. They’re part of the protection. But, unlike SafeDisc 1, these error sectors are contained in special groups to confuse the writer and make it write irregulair bit patterns. Result: the back-up will have errors on it (like it should) but not the same as the original and thus it won’t work without a crack.

Originally posted by Mrsash
Now I am really confused
Don’t be :wink:

Originally posted by Mrsash
So how exactly would you copy paste the files of max payne cd to hard drive and add extra files and then burn them to cdr in this case if I have to use clone?
Simple. Since the SafeDisc 2 protection is alread screwed you can drag & drop all files (including hidden files!) on the CD-R to your harddisk. Create an extra folder on it caled crack, or replace some of the files with cracked versions (there are different types of cracks: the ones you apply after installing the game and the ones you apply before burning the files). Then when you’ve done this write all files to a CD-R with Nero for instance and give the CD-R the same label as the original.

Originally posted by Mrsash
thanks for the help
You’re welcome.

Gamefreak, the reason I asked was because I burned a copy using CloneCD and BetaBlocker and my copy works in all CD-Roms that Ive tried it in… The thing is this, I would like to add a folder with the actual GAME patch for the game (Not talking about cracks!)… Since my game works like a 1:1 copy with the only difference being that I patched the weak sectors I would like to have a 1:1 copy that also contains that game patch/update…

I guess like you said it cannot be done but if there is room on a CD for more storage, why not take advantage of it… I still beleive that there is a way to take a CCD image file and add more files to it… But I dont know exactly how that would destroy the 1:1 copy ability…

Maybe Olli reads this and will add a function like this to CloneCD :wink:

What u are sasying that when I got max payne cd copy from a friend with crack was it made from a burner which supports sd2 backup. If this is so I thought it could only be done by clone cd and I thought clone cd always made 1:1 backups where the errors are duplicated and are not corrcted.

The site u led me too says now;;;; clone cd is smarter and corrects what it can. If now this is true then I am inclined to this logic. Safedisc 2 checks for errors and if errors are not present it wont work. Some of the posts from members I have read recently they have been able to copy 1:1 using latest clone cd so they dont need a crack at all. Now this goes against my knowledge.

I am asking this now coz before I had Ricoh burner so there was no point in even trying to copy most games.
now liteon 24x

Explain pllllzzzzzzzzzz. Now more confused than ever.

thanks for the time man

Originally posted by Mrsash
What u are sasying that when I got max payne cd copy from a friend with crack was it made from a burner which supports sd2 backup. If this is so I thought it could only be done by clone cd and I thought clone cd always made 1:1 backups where the errors are duplicated and are not corrcted.
When a game has a crack on it the original SafeDisc 2 errors are gone and thus a crack is necessary to play the game. It doesn’t matter if the game has been backed-up with CloneCD or if the writer was able to do SafeDisc 2. The thing is: to get a crack on the game in the first place it would have been done the way I described and thus without the SafeDisc 2 errors intact. Once this has been done CloneCD cannot regenerate the SafeDisc 2 errors!

Originally posted by Mrsash
The site u led me too says now;;;; clone cd is smarter and corrects what it can. If now this is true then I am inclined to this logic. Safedisc 2 checks for errors and if errors are not present it wont work. Some of the posts from members I have read recently they have been able to copy 1:1 using latest clone cd so they dont need a crack at all. Now this goes against my knowledge.
CloneCD will regenerate the ECC/EDC codes which will make better back-ups because unintentional errors (for instance because of a scratch on the disc) will be better corrected, However SafeDisc 2 errors are intentional and will not/cannot be corrected. The ECC/EDC might be better but the error itself ill still remain (like it should because a back-up without the errors would be useless).

Originally posted by Mrsash
I am asking this now coz before I had Ricoh burner so there was no point in even trying to copy most games.
now liteon 24x

Good. With this new LiteOn writer you should be able to back-up SafeDisc 2. But like I said your Max Payne game was already cracked so you could have done it with your Ricoh. If you, for instance, wanted to back-up the original Max Payne disc your Ricoh would probably fail and your LiteOn would succeed.

Ps. The latest CloneCD version it will sometimes make working SafeDisc 2 back-ups with writers that aren’t supposed to do it. This also has something to do with the ECC/EDC codes but this is an exception.

When a game has a crack on it the original SafeDisc 2 errors are gone and thus a crack is necessary to play the game. It doesn’t matter if the game has been backed-up with CloneCD or if the writer was able to do SafeDisc 2. The thing is: to get a crack on the game in the first place it would have been done the way I described and thus without the SafeDisc 2 errors intact. Once this has been done CloneCD cannot regenerate the SafeDisc 2 errors!

Like I asked earlier how come when I did a copy with the ricoh drive it would not play in any other drive if the errors are rendered useless.

this is what I know

A copy from a hardware equiped to do sd2 and software(ccd)-works all drives
A copy from uneuiped hardware to do sd2 and software(ccd)-works in burner only

So question is how did the guy who copied this game with the patch copy it if the sd2 sectors are screwed when he made the copy, then how am I and all of my friends able to read it?

Mrsash:

This may explain the reason for my post to you and also give you the answer your looking for.

If your hardware (and software) DO NOT support the writing of SafeDisc2 the next available and also easiest way of getting the game/program to work is by using a crack/patch.

To do this is you do not need any SD2 compatible hardware or software. What you do is create a folder anywhere on your harddrive where you have at least 800mbs of free room, go to your CD directory where the files for the CD your trying to copy are located, copy all and dump them into the folder you just created. Then go into that same folder, create a folder named crack and place the crack/patch there. Then use a burning program like Nero to burn the entire contents onto a CD. The CD will work but since no SD2 sectors were created it will only run with a crack/patch. And if you get a CD that was created with this method and you have SD2 capable hardware, there is no way to recreate the SD2 sectors since there is none on the copy that you made. This explains why you CANNOT make a copy that will work without a crack/patch.

Hope this clears it up…

I understand that. I think you did not understand my question. Basically my question is if the sd2 protection has been screwed already thennnn why was I not able to back up the backup I had of max payne to be read in other drives?

If the back up I had was a 1:1 copy then I would need either a crack or a hardware and software to make a copy which works. I understand this. but if the game has already been copied and is not one to one then why oh why was I not able to read the backup of the back up in other drives? I cant explain the question any better sorry guys if this is confusing.

thanks for the help

The errors are not required…regular bit patterns are…

There are a number of issues:

The ‘read’ thing: SafeDisc 2 includes ‘weak’ sectors which appear to be errors. They are not really errors, it’s just unusual angularity in the transition from pit to land to pit - it doesn’t really accord with any of the coloured book standards; smart chipsets like those found in Toshibas will skip them really, really quickly; chipsets in Asus CD-ROMs, for example, will choke. The errors are not essential to a working backup (at this point in time!). The errors are there to defeat the read process.

The ‘write’ thing: SafeDisc 2 incorporates “REGULAR bit patterns” in sectors like this: 1010101010101010… and so on in an area on the disc - where doesn’t matter but you’ll find them with a hex editor. Each 1 and 0 and the change from each binary bit is an artefact. To create this pattern on a pressed disc requires small artefacts (the pits & lands including the transition - remember the transition to pit is a 1 and the land is a zero) and greater precision in the die that stamps the blanks. Obviously this is more expensive because of the precision involved. However, including some regular patterns seems to be worthwhile. Why? and how does it work?

EFM encoding: ALL data written to a CD-R/W is EFM encoded (yes it is). Eight bits are taken and modulated (more bits added) to fourteen bits (another three are actually added to the 14…eight to fourteen you see then it’s seventeen really) so that the artefacts (pits, lands & the transition) are NO LESS than 3 bits apart, no more than 11 and are an average of seven apart - this is smart error correction code. CD-RW chipsets are just not normally set up to do anything but this because it’s a standard. The Mediatek chipset can ‘ignore’ the EFM standard (we know this is possible because DVD is eight to sixteen, so anything’s possible) and write the regular bit patterns.

It is the guard module in SD2 that looks for the regular bit patterns and then says “OK - protection module, you can unwrap now and run the game!”. If the regular patterns are missing then it’s a no show.

Macrovision knew that certain chipsets can do the correct non-standard EFM encoding required so they included some Windows API code in the guard module; we now know this as the ATIP check which is also seen in SecuROM NEW.

All MMC compliant AT devices (removeable media) must read the ATIP - this is ALL CD-RW. This CAN also include CD-ROMs & DVD-ROMs but not many.

So this is great protection, attempts to defeat the read and attempts to defeat the write using ‘non-standards’.

ISO images: Bandied around a lot; a true ISO image complies with the MMC standard but most of the time we mean it to be a big file on our HDD. What’s important is that it is written correctly.

So what’s the point? You can create an ‘ISO’ image, change it (crack or patch it), then burn it. Presto. Add files, folders or whatever but burn it properly, in accordance with the standard, Mode 1 or Mode 2 but MMC compliant.

You can’t do this with Daemon’s Tools for example because the image is mounted and treated like a real disc - it can’t be modified, it’s just like a real disc.

Ollie decided to include error correction because it is important that physical errors not make it thru the read. Previously, the errors were uncorrected or merely represented as binary data of sorts to complete the file that the TOC needed to see.

I’m not a patch, crack or blocker sort of guy, 'cos that’s no fun. If I can’t backup something like CD-Cops or some of the unknown CD-Checks then I play my game in an emulator like D-Tools.

There are some good links to EFM stuff in the “Any Topic” board in Clone Clinic.

Hope this helps. :wink:

Originally posted by Mrsash
why was I not able to read the backup of the back up in other drives? I cant explain the question any better sorry guys if this is confusing.
Well this really has nothing to do with SafeDisc 2 really… The game you have is a normal data disc because it has been cracked. There are no more error sectors on it (and when you create the image you shouldn’t encounter them in the log, right?)… I don’t know why your burner made a crappy back-up. It should have worked period. Forget the SafeDisc 2 issue for a moment since I know it’s confusing. Just remember this: when you have a cracked game it’s now a normal data disc and it can be treated as such. You can copy it with Nero CloneCD, whatever. When you have an original disc or a copy with the original protection intact you will have to deal with it. Then only will you encounter the SafeDisc 2 problems with your Ricoh.

Originally posted by Mrsash
A copy from a hardware equiped to do sd2 and software(ccd)-works all drives
A copy from uneuiped hardware to do sd2 and software(ccd)-works in burner only

The first part is correct. It should work in all CD-ROMs (or at least most since some CD-ROMs are just crappy readers).
The second part is half true. When you burn a SafeDisc 2 protected game with unequiped hardware it will,;

[ol][li]Not work in any drive (including Writers, CD-ROMs, DVD, etc.), OR
[/li][li]It will indeed work in the recorder only (and sometimes also in some other CD-ROMs).[/ol]This depends on the writer…
[/li]
I hope you understand ??

MrSash, I hate to say it but your CD is screwed up them… Try dumping the files to your Harddrive and then reburn them with Nero… That might help the CD work in any CD drive…

May be this has something to do with other drives not being able to read it when I made a copy with ricoh. I used clone cd and ricoh. It was readable only in the burner. If what u say is right then I probably sohuld have done the copy with nero.

Buttt if u think about

already cracked cdr
make copy with nero readable(not tried yet) coz I sold my ricoh already-just pretend at the moment.
make copy with clone not readable

u guys see where I am going with this. What is it in clone that makes a cracked sd2 game not readable. Its as if it does not depend on the drive but on the software. I know thats weird. but thnk about it, if clone is fixing some sd2 stuff(u guys are the techs so should understand when I say sd2 stuff). This might be interesting. By the way I will try nero and liteon combination and see what the results are.

Thanks to each one of u who took the time and anwered my questions.

Originally posted by Mrsash
I know thats weird. but thnk about it, if clone is fixing some sd2 stuff(u guys are the techs so should understand when I say sd2 stuff). This might be interesting. By the way I will try nero and liteon combination and see what the results are.
Weird indeed… But think about this: when you back-up a cracked game the SD2 ‘stuff’ wouldn’t even be present so CloneCD would have nothing to patch… You understand ?

Well I hope you have better luck with your Liteon :slight_smile:

Well now I have u r attention.

I have the liteon as the writer, can you suggest a reader? Forget toshiba coz I cant find them in Australia.

One which can be made region free.
Rip speed is good
and is the best reader like toshiba

Also another question. I have recently read in the posts about cactus shield protection. So question is can liteon by pass this? if yes then can I do it with clone(how if not with clonecd)

oh and yes for the above topic if the sd2 stuff is not present then what is it with clone that made it not possible to be read in my dvd drive, Rem I still could access the files from the ricoh burner. Just want to know…

Sorry Toshiba is the only one I can recommend. I have no experiences with other DVD players and like stated on the CloneCD site:

Although all CD ROMs work with CloneCD, only a few read subchannel data. We recommend TOSHIBA DVD-ROMs for reading.
And the SD-M1502 model can me made region free…

Also another question. I have recently read in the posts about cactus shield protection. So question is can liteon by pass this?
Sorry I don’t know. I don’t have a Liteon. What I do know that this whole CDS problems with the Plextor writers was a rumour and simply untrue.

oh and yes for the above topic if the sd2 stuff is not present then what is it with clone that made it not possible to be read in my dvd drive, Rem I still could access the files from the ricoh burner. Just want to know…
Again I’m not sure here… You say that it’s CloneCD’s ‘fault’ but maybe your Ricoh just made crappy back-ups or your DVD is a crappy reader… Or your copy was already screwed up… So many possibilities :confused: