A few questions about DVD Lifespan

vbimport

#1

I’ve read about the many types of dyes DVDs use and how Ritek and Verbatim use some of the best dye out there for better lifespan, performance, and reliability. I have some DVDs that were burned back during 2001 (Various DVDs with music & anime) at this time however, I was a newbie and didn’t know much of the better brands. I apologize for the long post…

I would occasionally use TDK/HP/Maxell DVD+R, I’m wondering if anyone that has burned with these brands has had any problems?

I’ve read that a normal good brand DVDs can last up to 80 years. But then I hear people talking about how their CD-Rs are dying slowly, ones they burned around '97. Is this true? Or could it be these people used cheaper quality (no name) discs?

I’ve burned a few DVDs, and well I usually burn at lets say perhaps 8x (usually I burn at 4x though) can a folder filled with .rar files get corrupted all of a sudden? Or could it have been corrupted before I had even burned the files? I ask this because, since I usually like to archive things, but sometimes… rarely… some files are (or get) corrupted and won’t read at all, then again I don’t remember if perhaps they were corrupted BEFORE I burned the DVD. :doh:

Until recently, I used to use CDStomper to put labels on my discs, luckily they are in top shape and don’t really peel off if you dont try to keep pulling on the edges.

Does a label on top of a cd really make a laser work harder?

I was wondering if any of these are good choices? I’m noticing Verbatim DataLifePlus and normal Verbatim are they basically the same? Newegg Verbatim Page

Ive read mixed reports that Sharpies are bad while others say they aren’t, can they affect read speeds/performance AT ALL?

Thanks guys, and sorry for the real pathetic questions, I want to hear other peoples point of view since I’ve read that Sharpies can mess up a DVD, and then the whole .RAR files corrupting made me get very paranoid.


#2

The brand of media is somewhat irrelevant. Pop it in the tray and look for the MID code- which is much more useful at determining where it was made and with what dye formulation.

Degredation will vary somewhat depending upon how the discs are treated. Keep your discs out of direct sunlight and don’t expose them to either high temps or temperature fluctuations. Not sure about relative humidity, but as long as it isn’t too extreme, I can’t believe that it would be a major factor. That’s the hard science. Everything else I’ve heard personally is anecdotal.

As long as you are burning in Mode1 (most data discs), some error correction will be built into the file system. VCDs and some other media discs are burnt in mode2, which trades error correction for capacity since most A/V specs contain some sort of built in error correction anyway. That said, in normal operation, the only way to tell that you are relying upon excessive error correction is to guage how long it takes for your drive to read the data. Really degraded discs might just sit there and spin while the drive slowly ekes bits and bytes as best it can. C1/C2 and PI/PIF scanning is a more reliable method, but it takes time and the results can sometimes be open to interpretation anyway.

Most of the warnings about paper labels are because people were using labels that didn’t cover the entire disc surface and therefore unbalanced the disc. Ones that cover the entire top surface and adhere well are fairly innocuous, although I suppose no label is closer to ideal spec.

Sharpies and other pens are problematic if they contain chemicals strong enough to eat through the top layer polycarb and damage the data layer underneath. Look at a disc cross section and you will see that the top label side is actually much closer to the data layer than the clear bottom side. Discs with top surfaces designed to be written on (they are textured to hold the ink) are slightly safer, and I would avoid industrial strength labeling pens (if they even have such a thing). The same company that makes Sharpies also makes similar felt tip pens that are smaller in diameter and deliver less ink. Definitely don’t cover the disc in ink like some amatuer tatoo artist though.

Remember that the vast majority of people aren’t looking for ultra long-term data storage, or are completely ignorant of burnt media degredation. Annecdotal stories are often from technophiles who consider any deviation from the ideal to be blasphemy, or technical illiterates who don’t care as long as they don’t have to deal with any problems.


#3

You should not use labels, too many people have had problems with them. Sharpies are fine for DVDs, CDs can sometimes be a risk because they don’t have as much protection on their top surface as DVDs do.

Regarding DVD stability, there are a lot of variables, some DVD media has particularly poor stability such as Ritek G05 which is an 8x -R media code - check your Maxell discs if you have any 8x -R Maxell and reburn the discs if they contain important data. Ritek G04 also has some stability problems but not as widespread as G05 - in any event, Ritek is very mediocre media at this point and has been for 2-3 years now. Verbatim is typically some of the best media that you can use, so that is one of the safest choices. In terms of burn speeds and burn quality, most media tends to burn best at, or around 1 speed below, its rated speed. For example, 8x media usually burns best at 4-8x, 16x media generally performs best at 8-12x, etc.


#4

This is for CD media. There is no Mode 1 / Mode 2 distinction for DVD media. The equivalent to C1/C2 testing for CD media is PIE/PIF testing for DVD media, but such tests should be combined with actual reading tests to see if the disc can be easily read; this can be accomplished with e.g. the Transfer Rate test on the Benchmark tab in Nero CD-DVD Speed.

Most of the warnings about paper labels are because people were using labels that didn’t cover the entire disc surface and therefore unbalanced the disc. Ones that cover the entire top surface and adhere well are fairly innocuous, although I suppose no label is closer to ideal spec.
Paper labels on DVDs are even more problematic than on CDs and it’s not limited to paper labels that are not centered correctly. There are numerous reports of reading problems on these forums that are the results of using paper labels.

Here is one such thread, but there are many others:

Sticky paper labels on DVD+/-R discs: beware!

Sharpies and other pens are problematic if they contain chemicals strong enough to eat through the top layer polycarb and damage the data layer underneath. Look at a disc cross section and you will see that the top label side is actually much closer to the data layer than the clear bottom side. Discs with top surfaces designed to be written on (they are textured to hold the ink) are slightly safer, and I would avoid industrial strength labeling pens (if they even have such a thing). The same company that makes Sharpies also makes similar felt tip pens that are smaller in diameter and deliver less ink. Definitely don’t cover the disc in ink like some amatuer tatoo artist though.
Again this is for CD media, because for DVD media the data and relflective layers are in the middle of the disc protected by 0.6 mm of polycarbonate on both sides. Using a Sharpie or similar pen on a DVD is quite safe. See e.g. this thread:

Okay to write on discs with a marker?

Using a dedicated CD/DVD labeling pen on a CD should also be safe, unless that CD has no protective lacquer on top of the reflective metal layer (e.g. some older CD-R media).

Remember that the vast majority of people aren’t looking for ultra long-term data storage, or are completely ignorant of burnt media degredation. Annecdotal stories are often from technophiles who consider any deviation from the ideal to be blasphemy, or technical illiterates who don’t care as long as they don’t have to deal with any problems.
There’s a lot of unreliable information about any subject including this one on the Internet! :iagree:

CDFreaks is the right place to get some more reliable information from people who have interest as well as actual experience in these subjects.

@Xenthor: Welcome to CDFreaks! :slight_smile:


#5

Thanks for the welcome DrageMester! And thank you guys, this really cleared up various things, I’ll make sure to stop any more CD Labeling at once.

Both DataLifePlus & the Normal Verbatim seem identical, whats the difference? And if I burn on a DVD+R Inkjet, I know it will obviously be better than putting CD Labels, but does it affect the reliability/performance at all?

I’m currently using Nero CD-DVD Speed 4.7.0.2 to determine what the ID of my DVDs are and if I am at risk. I’ve noticed however that one of my DVDs that has MKM003 ID (It is Verbatim) has a quality score of 65 on the program even though this DVD isn’t that old, perhaps maybe two weeks. No smudges or scratches at all either, so can this program miscalculate at times? Since according to http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm it says that its a 1st Class Media, making it very good.

While I’m at it with DVD/CD questions, where exactly do you guys buy Taiyo Yuden media? I know at stores here in the U.S, they don’t sell them atleast not where I live, and I’ve heard of various fake TY floating around which has stopped me from buying online.

Again, thank you guys!


#6

Printing a label on inkjet printable dvds won’t affect them adversely.

Which burner are you using? Some brands are inconsistent in using the quality scans in Nero CD/DVD Speed. Run a transfer rate scan on the Verbatim disk that is scoring low. If you have a smooth curve, I wouldn’t worry too much about it. If you still see problems, burn another one.

The list of media and their scoring system at digitalfaq are way out of date and you shouldn’t rely on it for choosing disks. Period.

Rima.com is one of the best places online for TY media. Supermediastore is another possiblility.


#7

The quality score is written in stone according to a mathematical analysis of the results, but there can be mitigating factors. e.g., some burner/media combinations often have high single PIF spikes where they spin down for recalibration- which can disproportionately affect the score. Others have absolutely abysmal results at the extreme outer edge of the disc, but 99% of the burn is great.

They are getting rarer, but MIJ Sony 8x DVD+R are still T02 when I find them. Fuji MIJ 8x used to be TY too, but I haven’t seen them in a year or so. One tip is to look for places that sell them, but aren’t in the primary business of selling tech related stuff. I got a huge cache of TY at Sears of all places (at a great price after pricematch to boot). OTOH, Best Buy and even Staples and Office Depot seem to have gone through their supply of MIJ and are only getting MIT now.


#8

Once again thanks guys!

@Kerry56 Thanks for the link! So I shouldn’t trust DigitalFAQ at all? Got it! Oh, and my burner is a LITE-ON DVDRW SOHW-1673S.

@btspm Whoa, Sears? I haven’t been there for quite awhile, I would have never though they’d have TY. Thanks! I’ll check tomorrow :bigsmile:


#9

Whoa, this is somewhat weird… I had this cheap pathetic DVD lying around that I never really took care of. Its clean from scratches, but its a no name brand. Somehow it gets a Quality Score of 90, while I’ve tried VARIOUS different (TDK, Maxell, HP, Verbatim brands) and I keep getting around 60 as a score. What could it be? I do use the Verbatim & TDK DVDs more, while the cheap no name one I rarely put in the DVD Drive, could that also be a reason? :doh: