A copy of a copy

Does anyone know how to make a copy of a SD2.51xxx copy made with aws on. Should i copy it with aws enabled or not.

I know that someone have made a post about this before, but i can’t find it.

FutureProof posted this once on the forum:

'If the copy is an “AWS” burn by a non-SD2 burner then EC must be set to “none”.
If the copy is a burn by a correct SD2 writer then error correction MUST NOT be set to none.
If the copy is an “AWS” burn by a proper SD2 writer then the copy cannot be copied (I think - I haven’t tested this but thinking it through leads me to believe that it may not work given the EC & sector regeneration performed anyway by CCD)."
But it would of course be recommended to create the image from the original disc.

Thank’s G@M3FR3@K.
But if i read the disk with EC set to none should I amlify or ignore weak sectors?

By the way: My original are to damaged to read from.

The AWS setting does not matter for reading :confused:

If the copy is an “AWS” burn by a proper SD2 writer then the copy cannot be copied (I think - I haven’t tested this but thinking it through leads me to believe that it may not work given the EC & sector regeneration performed anyway by CCD)

Yes, the copy of a copy will not work if it was made by a 2 sheep burner with AWS on. I tried this myself. :bigsmile:

I did some testing.
I copied a copy of MOHAA made with my non sheep burner and AWS on.

First I made a copy with EC set to none and AWS on. It worked just fine.

Them I set EC to default (software) and burned one copy with Amlify weak sectors and one with Ignore weak sectors. And they both run just fine.

I’ve tried the same with Ghost Recon but this game use SD 2.40.10 so it might be easier to copy.

How is this possible?

I’ve used my burner (Aopen CRW1232Pro) to read.

There is absolutely no reason for copies of copies of AWS discs not to run, unless the data is messed up additionally (using a bad reader etc).

The principle of AWS is the following one :

The original weak sectors is lightly modified to allow :

  • that the burn process doesn’t modify it anymore
  • the reading process taking into account the error correction of the cd reader rebuilds the weak sector as the original .

In your case :
You should have 2 cases :

  • You read the data without ECC correction, you should not select AWS as the data are already ready for 1 sheep burner .

  • You read the data with ECC correction, you should select AWS as the data read should be the same as the original weak sector .

Maybe the first method should be better assuming that you don’t encounter some problems of readability of your backup somewhere else (except the true unreadable sectors between 800 to 10000 .
I don’t know if AWS is specific to each burner, in this event the backup needs to be burn with the same cd writer as the previous one .
Olivier

Olivier: You seem to know what you are talking about and I don’t really know much about how AWS works (I actually came to this post while looking for info on how AWS works) but from what you say, I think you are perhaps missing some info.

It depends on whether you are using a 2 sheep burner or 1 sheep burner to write the second time I think.

If you are using a 2 sheep burner to write, you should turn ECC on since you want to have the original weak sectors not the modified weak sectors. Turning off ECC may produce a workable copy depending on whether AWS is specific to each writer (I suspect not). But even if the copy is working, you still should not do it since it is better to have original rather then modified sectors. Of course, you should NEVER turn on AWS when writing with a 2 sheep writer.

If you are using a 1 sheep burner to write and it is not the original writer, you should turn on ECC unless you can confirm that the AWS is not specific to each writer. If you turn on ECC, the original weak sectors should be generated and so it doesn’t matter if AWS is specific to each writer since the AWS will be done again from original content. If it is not specific, it also doesn’t matter. If you turn off ECC and it is specific of couz, then you will have a big problem.

If you are using the original burner to write, I don’t know if it will make much diff as long as your writer properly supports turn of ECC. If you are not certain, you will have to test it (it needs to ignore soft errors as well as hard errors I believe) or you could just turn it on and then use AWS to burn again.

Obviously, in any case, for a 1 sheep burner, AWS should be off if you turned off ECC and AWS on if ECC on as Olivier mentioned

One thing I would recommend I always create a checksum or hash of you image. I used to use CRC-32 (the program) but I’ve found fsum http://www.slavasoft.com/fsum/overview.htm to be faster. I would recommend either CRC-32 or MD5. Write it on to your written CDR then you can also know (way beyond resonable doubt anyway) you have the exact same thing as the original when you read it again.

It depends on whether you are using a 2 sheep burner or 1 sheep burner to write the second time I think.

Yes you are right I considered only the case were the burner was 1 sheep .

Obvioulsy If you have a 2 sheeps burner and want to backup a backup created with a 1 sheep burner you must recreate a perfect image with the original sectors and so use ECC to get it .

Obvious to you and me and to everyone who understands, at least partially, what you originally said :slight_smile:

But sadly, it has been my exp that some people just can’t seem to understand simple concepts so I thought I needed to lay it down in black and white (or black and grey rather) so as to avoid confusion, especially for future readers who search the history… However, all the info for my post I got from your post since I did not no much about how the enhance weak sectors worked until I read it. Well, nearly anyway. I did read about it before I think since when I read your post, it brought back memories of something I had read before.