99 minutes AudioCD FULLY tested!

vbimport

#1

Hello there.
This is my first post and hopefully not the last.
The 900 MB CDs have finally arrived in my town. So I took one of them and tested it thoroughly :). Here are some facts regarding burning, reading, ripping and testing a 90-minutes Audio-CD.

How the CD looked: Brand-name: DataTrack (bulk-CD which comes in 100 pieces on a stick, u know what I mean). label: CD-R 99 / 900 MB (99 min) Multispeed (no express burning speed specifications). Serial number: J31 6G41 061 35151C05 80++

First of all, I didn't dare writing 99 minutes of tracks on the medium 'coz I was thinking that would ruin my CD-Writer (happened before in other circumstances lol :smiley: ). So I burned 90 mins on it.

I used Feurio 1.64 to burn, a HP cd16r Writer and two MP3 albums which summed 89:59 minutes. Feurio recognized the CD as 99:59 minutes CD. Burning went fine @16X and then I took the CD out, took a look at it and realized there was place on it to burn the rest. So HP cd16r Series can burn such a CD to the rim (but see below the writing limit!!!!).

The CD was READABLE in all the CD players I could test it on (about 11, portable or not!!!). It played well also in newer CD-ROMs (32X and higher). But an ANCIENT CD-ROM I have (2X, with play/stop/fwd/next/prev buttons) spitted it out. Now let's go on with the tests.

First test: playing the CD. I played the tracks using Windows Media Player 8. Everything went fine, loud and clear sound, no problems. Then I started jumping from a track to another, jumping between different times inside the same track, all tracks were working fine, except the last one, where I got an error: you know what a flail is? :slight_smile: but double-clicking the track played it flawlessly. (could be just Windows Media Player 8 doing the nasty).

Second test: DAE: ripping the tracks (MP3). I used Easy CDDA Extractor 4.7.1 from www.poikosoft.com (registered, fully functional version). Forgot to say I burned a CD-text Audio-CD so Easy CDDA Extractor recognized the tracks' names. I ripped the tracks to MP3z using the following settings: Full-Stereo VBR, min. 192, med. 256, max. 320 KBPS, Highest Quality, CRC-error enabled. Ripping went fine from beginning to end. I used the same CD-Writer I burned the CD on. Ripping results (may depend on system configuration):

Total CD Time:89:59
Ripping Time:10:26
Ripping average speed:8.61X
Ripping max speed: 10.24X
Ripping min speed (not considerring the ripping speed at the beginning of the track): 7.98X
During ripping there were no speed slowdowns.
Playing the ripped MP3z: NO ERRORS

Third test: DAE: Ripping the tracks (WAV). I used same CD-Writer, same software. Ripped the tracks to Wave (PCM). Ripping results (using my configuration of course):

Ripping Time: 03:35
Ripping Average Speed: 24.88X
Ripping max speed (very end of CD): 34.73X
Ripping min speed (very beginning of CD): 11.4X
During ripping there were no speed slowdowns.
Playing the ripped WAVs: NO ERRORS

Fourth test: CD Test. I used Nero CD Speed utility. Nero CD Speed options:
Test Length: slow (1:1, most accurate tests) - I used this setting becaus I wanted the tests to be as reliable as possible.
Read Speed (limited by inaccurate drive information): 32X
CD Quality check grid limit: auto (and the program went nuts as you shall read below).
Data length (KB): 32.

This effective (but not-so-reliable) tool recognized the CD as 'Audio, length: 89:57.44'. There are some VERY interesting reports in Drive check:

Disc information:
Type: Audio (correct)
Tracks: 19 (0 data, 19 Audio) (correct)
Capacity: 89:57.44 (small error, actually 89:59)

CD-R(W) information:
Manufacturer: unknown (code 96m43s37f) (see comments below)
Media code: 96m43s37f (see comments below)
Dye type: 7
Disc type: CD-R
Capacity: 79:59.74 (completely incorrect! Well, this CD type is still unsupported so Nero CD Speed's total available time setting might be limited to this value, not knowing this new kind of media)

Comments: there's an interesting fact concerning the Manufacturer and Media code. Analyze this code! Seems that they have actually written the maximum available capacity of the disk INSIDE it! This is, as read: 96:43.37 (so say NO-NO to 99:00.00 CDs :wink: ).
Not to mention that HP cd15r is not accurately recognized (32X max instead of 40X max). But let's go on with the tests.

With the CD still hot in the writer, I began the tests, but I had some serious problems. I will show and comment test results below:

  1. Transfer Rate Test:
    Speed: average - 26.46X, start - 15.34X, end - 34.86X
    Type: Constant Angular Velocity (CAV).
    The graphic bars got OUT OF SCALE (the utility is compiled for only max. 80 mins CDs) but the program was still doing its job to the end.

  2. DAE Test: FAILED! here's the log:
    DAE Quality Test - start - No Errors
    DAE Quality Test - center - No Errors
    DAE Quality Test - end - read error at 88:00.00 (code 023A00)
    I have to mention that CD Unit made some weird noises at this point and the CD stopped spinning. The noises seemed like the lens tried to get out of the CD and politely knocked at the door. I waited for about 4 minutes then ejected the CD.

The rest of the tests were made one by one:

  1. Seek tests:
    Random Seek Test: 133 ms
    1/3 Seek test: 129 ms
    Full Seek test: FAILED at 88:00.00 (code 023A00). Same noises, same behavior, same solution: ejecting the CD. 'Stop' button didn't respond. Actually, it responded when initiating the next test.

Comment: seems that Nero CD Speed doesn't like this time-border (88:00.00).

  1. CPU Usage Test (depends on the CPU):
    1X - 8%
    2X - 5%
    4X - 8%
    8X - 24%

  2. Burst Rate Test: 8 MB/s (I cloaked around this, is it because of the UATA/100 data Cable? Still, the CD-writer is UATA/33).

  3. Spin UP/DOWN tests:
    Spin Up test - 3.11 sec
    Spin Down Test - 2.81 sec

  4. Disc eject/load tests:
    Disc Eject time - 1.71 sec.
    Disc Load time - 1.75 sec.
    Disc Recognition Time - 6.73 sec. (no special timing here, the Disc Recognition Time takes as long as on any other 'traditional' CD).

I've continued with Extra tests of Nero CD Speed. CD Quality test gave some surprising results: at 29:45 (CD Audio time) there was a problem (yellow line) and SURPRISE! Fatal error in the application as it got close to the edge of the CD (around 88:00.00, I suppose!). Test successfully FAILED.

CD Speed - ScanDisc test results:

File test at 0.1X (20 KB/s, Track 19):PASSED.
Surface scan showed the very first cluster of the CD as damaged (yellow spot) but readable. The rest of the disk checked successfully, no errors. When checking again, the whole disk went through testing OK (no more yellow spots, all green and readable).

Now there's the interesting part: after doing all these tests I took the CD and gently scratched it like this:

Two fine scratches along the gaps;
Two fine scratches perpendicular to the gaps;
One deep scratch along the gaps;
One deep scratch perpendicular to the gaps;
One BIG FAT SLIMY fingerprint close to the track start;
One little fingerprint close to the edge;
A scratched spot (many fine,small crossed scratches) in the middle track.

Result: no tests had place as the CD wasn't recognized AT ALL (even after removing the fingerprints and lense-cleaning the CD-Writer).

After a WHOLE freaking day of testing this CD I can tell you that, if you buy such a CD, please VERIFY its media code and manufacturer (I found interesting info there!). DON'T burn more than 96 minutes on it! You might DAMAGE your writer! I do NOT recommend writing at speeds higher than 16X (because I haven't tested such speeds yet heh). Handle the burned CDs with EXTRA CARE! Otherwise, a scratch could render the disk unusable. TEST the Audio CD in your Cd player before burning more such CDs, because it might not recognize it!

I'll do a Data CD test in a couple of days and I'll post the results as well, so be prepared. But there is yet a problem. Overburning function of CD-writers may not work as well in data mode. This is because of the software, and by the way, do you know any piece of software supporting 900 MB CDs?

Stay shaped!

WaR4PeacE


#2

Well, lemme see…
With that serial number… Unless someone can correct me… That seems like Ritek… (80++ for 99-minute…) but I could be mistaken.

Now, CD-Speed stopping at 88:00 must be something with your reader not being able to go past that point, since I’ve used it for bigger CD’s.
I do not know if your recorder can write 99, but probably shouldn’t be able and stop at early nineties or 89:59.

Corrections:

Media code: 96m43s37f

This is not the capacity, but just the info that the Identifiers look up in their database to be able to give you the manufacturer name. Like, in every CD it must be in the 90-100 minute range, because that’s the reserved range for the ATIP, which is actually in the beginning of the media.
So you should be able to record 99-minutes if your burner supports it.
(80++ - 99-minute
80+ - 90-minute)

Capacity: 79:59.74

This is the maximum capacity a CDR disc can report to be considered a “valid” CDR disk, and the extra capacity can only be attained in DAO-Overburn mode. It’s not anything with Nero, it’s the info encoded on the disc itself.

Edit: Forgot to state that those discs are less scratch-resistant due to the spiral being spun tighter.


#3

Well, as I’ve clearly stated in my first post, I’ve used the CD-WRITER during all the tests. So my ‘reader’ wrote the same CD very well, played it flawlessly, and I’ve even ripped the CDAs to MP3s at full speed. The reading unit wasn’t changed. So this ‘imposibility’ of the reader can’t be.
The CD was OK. The writer CAN burn 99 minutes CDs but fails when writing past the limit of (guess what?) 96m48s. I know about the code used for the database, but, surprise! The code was the same. This kind of CDs might be made by a fake-factory, who knows? It’s pretty sure that they did a pretty good job.


#4

First not all writers could write up to 99min, and then very few readers could read up to 99min.

So 99min discs is for special cases only.

A friend of got his car audio destroyed by a 99min disc, the pickup got stuck at the end of the disc…this should never happen, but it did. Normally the pickup should not get stuck under any sircumstances, so I consider this case a combination of a 99min disc and a construction error in the car audio.

Anyway he got it fixed under the warranty :cool:


#5

Oh, yes, yes, then I’ll think I’ll limit to writing CDs up to 95 min / 850 MB. Anyhow, I’d already written an 82:30 Audio CD and another up to 87:45 because I had some live material converted to MP3s and it cannot be split on 2 CDs (would ruin the whole concert). The CDs are readable in my player (a very cheap God-knows-who-made-it CD-player, costs about $20).

Now a 850 MBdata CD will be burned later today and I’ll thoroughly test it and post the results.

Stay shaped!


#6

My LG GCE 8160B has written three 99 minute audio discs so far.

Diana Krall compilation 98:45
Jimmy Buffett Compilation 93:15
Pink Floyd The Wall (movie sound track) 95:01

All three play fine in EVERY audio cd player I threw at it. Even my 10 year old boom box.

A tip: don’t write audio over 4x when using 99 minute cd-r’s. They track better and have less errors.

trust me, I trashed 2 discs before I came across that solution.

I’ll try and make a 100 minute disc shortly. Just to see if it will work!


#7

Yes, and moreover, 1 98:55 AudioCD written @16X works perfectly fine when played on the oldest CD-Reader I could ever find: a 2X nonamed player. Cool.

BTW: be aware of Nero CD Speed, it thrashed an 32X LG reader during tests of a 98:55 mins Audio CD (spinning went nuts and finally with a GIANT screech the CD got stuck, damaging the lens). I’ve never seen so many scratches on a CD so far :). Anyhow, I only know the CD-Reader brand as it wasn’t mine (a friend of mine tried to rip the audio data), but I’ve seen the CD later… god, i HAVE to post it on the Internet :slight_smile:


#8

I’ve tried a search but can’t find it now[ul]
[/ul] a list of cdrw drives with their maximum burn times[ul]
[/ul] one of you kind peeps out there posted a link, if you are reading do it again dude [ul]
[/ul] ta!!


#9

OK, try this link:

http://www.disc4you.com/news/99min.html

Hope it’s good. :wink:


#10

thanx to war4peace


#11

Here’s another link to a list of supported writers and their maximum burning capacity (includes everyone’s favorite writer the Lite-On 40x12x48).

http://www.medeainternational.com/info/90min.htm

:stuck_out_tongue:


#12

cheers m8


#13

OK guys, I need some CD Mastering software which can burn PROTECTED CDs (not too much of a protection, I am interested in creating DUMMY files). If anyone knows I would greatly appreciate it!


#14

take a look at this
http://www.europe.f-secure.com/support/filecrypto/10-basics.shtml

maybe this might help


#15

thank you for the link, but it’s actually not what I was interested in finding. I wish to use a CD-Burning software so I can burn data on media with DUMMY-FILES protection. The data should not be encrypted though. CD-Duplicating should be possible, but if, let’s say, I burn 10 files of 70 MB each on a CD-R, upon copying on the HDD they should use, let’s say, 700 MB of space EACH.