811s Kprobe2 "read speed" problem

First, you guys are great!!! But I need help, I’m a newb. Hopfully, this hasn’t been covered yet.

I’m using the recommended write strategy (with omnipatcher) for my standard liteon 811s (pacific digital from Staples), with HS0Q, RICOHJPNR01 media, burn with decrypter and the results seems to be great. BUT when I read the disk with different “read speeds” (not burn speed) in kprobe2, I get vastly different results.

It’s not the usual “best to worse” senerio such as; 1x speed = best results, 4x read = standard, 8x = worse, max= bad. What im getting is, 1x is AWESOME, 4x = HORRIBLE, 8x = ok, max = ok.

I dont understand why I get horrible results with 4x read speed, and not 1x, 8x, or max read speeds.

Can my liteon 811s read only at 1x and 8x, but not at 4x? Does this kprobe “read speed” issue mean that I will have issues playing in other dvd players (They still work in my current player)?

Basically, can I start rapidly “making backups” of dvds without fear?

Any suggestions?

thanks!
chris

btw, I store the dvd files on a file server and push the files via LAN to my dvd player. Not sure if this would cause any issues.

Here are my results:

1x read speed:
http://forum.cdfreaks.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11230&stc=1
4x read speed:
http://forum.cdfreaks.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11231&stc=1
8x read speed:
http://forum.cdfreaks.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11232&stc=1
max read speed:
http://forum.cdfreaks.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11233&stc=1

Same questions has been raised in your post yesterday :confused:

The “standard” KProbe scanningspeed on this forum is 4x, and the acceptable error rates are 280/4 with the version of KProbe you use.
Single spikes can be ignored. :wink:

BTW, regarding your first post, have you done any “write strategy” changes for your RICOH_R01 media.

I assume you wanted to say the burner gets the source files from a file server :slight_smile:
The spikes in the PI graph look like buffer underruns during burn. Check the buffer fill level or the drives led during your burns. A 100 MBit network is not fast enough for 8x burning.

Ya, Ya, I know I posted yesturday. Im too impatient. Need answers pronto:) (I tried to erase the post actually)

I THINK I did the write strategies correctly for the RICOHJPNR01. I’ve tried all the firmware available in omnipatcher, with/without auto bitsetting for the RICOHJPNR01 (even tried R0 and R2). Im a newb, so Im not sure I did it right.

Basically, I start up omnipatcher, apply the recommended dvd tweaks for my 811s with the all the firmwares, saved the firmware file, executed the file, rebooted and then do a burn test. The best 4x read speed (the default forum speed) in Kprobe2 was around 180 PI avg. Even though im well under the 280 mark, I consider this a sub-par report, especially when I see all these 10-20 average PI readings (at the 4x usual read speed) in this forum.

I assume you wanted to say the burner gets the source files from a file server
The spikes in the PI graph look like buffer underruns during burn. Check the buffer fill level or the drives led during your burns. A 100 MBit network is not fast enough for 8x burning.

You are right about the source file on the file server thing:) Thanks for the tip about the buffer fill level. How would I know if the buffer is underrunning? Like if there is some laggy reading of the disk?

Still… why would my 4x read speed reports be so horrible when everything else is much better (i.e. 1x, 8x, max)? I just dont get why my 811s is reading so crappy at the 4x read speed in kprobe2. It doesn’t make sense to me.

thanks guys:)

Nero would show you the buffer status during the burn.

Still… why would my 4x read speed reports be so horrible when everything else is much better (i.e. 1x, 8x, max)? I just dont get why my 811s is reading so crappy at the 4x read speed in kprobe2. It doesn’t make sense to me.
The firmware is not optimised to read in a mode that the drive usually does not use for reading. The usual reads are made in CAV to optimise the access times. This Constant Angular Velocity mode is used in 6x and 8x (=max) reading speed. 4x reads are made in CLV ( C Linear V), so it is not so surprising that the drive behaves different. Older firmwares had better CLV results.
As long as you do not write right, you should not expect good reading results. On a 100 MBit network 8x burning is too fast, 6x burning is closeto the edge.

I’m having pretty much the same problem.

Got an ldw-811s, and virtually ALL of my kprobe scans are horrid. I’ve tried different firmwares, different media, and all seem to give me bad results.

Here’s an example. Same disc (CMC MAGE01), scanned first at 4x and second at Max:



I’ve had pretty much the same results on RicohjpnR01’s too, even though I’ve heard that they’re decent media for the 811s.

My system specs:

Windows 2000 SP4
Nero 6.3.1.6
AMD Athlon 64 2800+ (socket 754)
MSI K8T Neo-FSR
Lite-on LDW-811s (also pacific digital) HSOR with recommended omnipatcher strats
Geil 512MB PC3200
Powercolor ATI Radeon 9600 pro
Pioneer DVD-rom DVD-117
Western Digital 80GB special edition
Western Digital 60GB

It’s pretty much been giving these same results since day one of burning. I don’t have another lite-on drive to test kprobe with, but if need be I can try doing a dvd speed scan in nero on either the ldw-811s or the dvd-117 for results…

All media that I’ve burned has been read fine in my drive, but the kprobe scans are just terrible.

The firmware is not optimised to read in a mode that the drive usually does not use for reading. The usual reads are made in CAV to optimise the access times. This Constant Angular Velocity mode is used in 6x and 8x (=max) reading speed. 4x reads are made in CLV ( C Linear V), so it is not so surprising that the drive behaves different. Older firmwares had better CLV results.
As long as you do not write right, you should not expect good reading results. On a 100 MBit network 8x burning is too fast, 6x burning is closeto the edge.

Thanks for the info ala42. That’s interesting about the CLV issue… I’ll see if I can find out some info about the 811s and CLV reads.

The network transfer issue still doesn’t explain why others with the 811s can’t get decent results ONLY at 4x read in Kprobe2. Also, I’m sure there are many people that use a file server for there dvd files and have no issues with burning, right? Or am I a crazy newb and way off the mark?

I’ve tried to do everything on this drive with omnpatcher and still can’t get it to read at 4x in Kprobe2. After reading this post 10-11 times, I still don’t understand why this drive has crap results ONLY at 4x and not 1x, 2x. That uses CLV too right?

I’ve read other people having read issues at 4x read with Kprobe, but no one ever has an answer that explains it. I’ll dig some more.

Quick question, what affect does the 4x CLV issue have on playing the dvd’s in normal home players, especially if the 1x results are ~20 PI?

thanks!
chris

If you want to hear it, yes, you are a crazy newb :). 8x write speed -> 8x 1.35 MB/sec = 10.8 MB/sec. That is about the peak performance you can get on a 100 MBit Network even without accessing the disk on the file server. This simply means you will get buffer underuns, the drive will have to stop and restart burning several times which is not the best you can do for your burning quality.

I’ve tried to do everything on this drive with omnpatcher and still can’t get it to read at 4x in Kprobe2. After reading this post 10-11 times, I still don’t understand why this drive has crap results ONLY at 4x and not 1x, 2x. That uses CLV too right?

I’ve read other people having read issues at 4x read with Kprobe, but no one ever has an answer that explains it. I’ll dig some more.

KProbe simply reports what your drive reads with the installed firmware. Different firmwares give you different results. On the 411 drive which is identical to the 811, FS02-FS07 were quite good in reading at 4x (CLV) and bad at max (CAV). All firmwares >= FS0B were the other way round.

Have the same probs using 811S @ HSOK

1 x awesome
4 x bad
max. good

So what are all these values really worth ???

German c’t magazin (highest reputation) said KProbe is not capable testing
DVD writing quality ! The more I get involved in all this stuff - I think they
are right.


German c’t magazin (highest reputation) said KProbe is not capable testing
DVD writing quality ! The more I get involved in all this stuff - I think they
are right.

2 words sping to mind but i`ll refrane.

Kprobe rocks…

Hey that’s not very nice, hehe. Blutengel is the newb.

Hmm, I’ve tried all the newer firmwares (HS0K, HS0P, HS0Q, HS0R) from the omnipatcher site (firmware for faster reading), different write strategies, auto bitsetting, and still can’t get a read for 4x. I’ve wasted about 15 disks.

I’ve seen all the 411/811 readings and I’m jealous, most of the time they gives awesome results at 4x read (even < 12 PI). I have only seen 1 out of 50 811s reports that was decent at 4x read. I’m starting to think I’m not using omnipatcher correctly maybe.

Does this process look ok?

  1. I start up omnipatcher
  2. load the particular firmware downloaded from the omnipatcher site for faster DVD R/RW reading
  3. apply the recommended dvd tweaks for the RICOHJPNR01/R02
  4. select (or unselect) the auto bitsetting (done both many times)
  5. saved the firmware file to the hard drive
  6. find the firmware file I just created and executed it
  7. once the firmware is updated, rebooted and then do a burn test.
I just realized something, do you think that the speed hack firmware from the omnipatcher site has messed up my 4x read CLV?  I didn't use firmware from the dhc014's Firmware Page.  I only used firmware from http://codeguys.rpc1.org/firmwares.html which all have the speed hack.  Or are these firmwares from omnipatcher ok?

If there is an issue with the speed hacked onmipatcher firmwares, how to I recover back to the “normal” firmwares, like from dhc014?  Do I just install them and it will uninstall the speed hack?

Also, I'll see if I can create a new image on my local hard drive and not on the file server.  Try a few more firmwares changes.

Also, I’ll see if I can create a new image on my local hard drive and not on the file server. Try a few more firmwares changes.

try some burns from your HD but i wouldn`t keep swaping F/W use eather HSOK or HSOP with recomended media tweeks only.

@smashhead. Stop smashing your head :wink: , the 811s family drives (401, 411, 811) have many examples of stupid KProbe results at 4x. I’ve had one of those myself, it was a 401s@811s but it didn’t matter whether it was at 401s or at 811s, it would consistently produce stupid results. The Nero CD-DVD Speed would be mostly good, though. So I concluded that there’s some bug on the firmware, when scanning at 4x.

My advice: until, if ever, you obtain another drive for KProbing, forget about doing it with your current drive. Try the Nero CD-DVD speed test and if the read curve is OK and other drives, e.g. standalones, can read the disk well, then there’s nothing to worry about.

I have an 811s drive here myself, which also produces horrid results when Kprobe is run at 4x. The results at 8x look much better, but are still quite a bit worse than the results of Kprobe run at 4x on my 1213@1633. I am truly disappointed in the 811, as I bought it used and very cheap primarily for running Kprobe.

I am now thinking of buying another 1213 for the second computer. On the other hand, it looks as though my Benq 1620 may soon be able to run quality tests with Nero CDSpeed and DvdInfoPro…

Dam, I was scared you would say that. At least im not the only one with a retarded 811s. I guess I’ll think about getting one of those 832 or whatever. The results look great on those.

I’ll try the Nero CDSpeed and DvdInfoPro. For some reason, Nero CDSpeed doesn’t recognize my drive. It only sees my CDRW. I think it might be from the alcohol 120 emulation or SPTI and not APTI drivers or whatever.

If I use those programs and results look good for my 811s burned dvds (at 8x burn), should I stop smashing my head and get on with creating my “historic archive”???

btw, thanks guys, much appreciated!