811S KProbe scans: First good, now bad! Advice needed!

vbimport

#1

I know the 811S is known not to be a very good drive, but this is strange. When i installed the drive and did some test burns, KProbe scans were quite normal (You can see an example on this pic:http://club.cdfreaks.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4634&stc=1). Stock firmware was HS0P. But then after a week or so, and i don´t know why, my scans got worse even with great quality media such as TYG01. (See a scan with TYG01 media here:http://club.cdfreaks.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8555&stc=1). I then installed the new HS0Q fw in hope to be able to solve the problem, but without success. I tried all fws from HS0K on and all produce the same poor scans. I then bought a NEC 2500A as i thought that the 811S poor burn quality would cause these scans, but didn´t change anything either. And remember i get these bad scans with all kinds of media. A new IDE cable didn´t help aswell.
Just to let you know, the discs play perfectly in all my standalone players and i think that the burns are therefor good, but i simply want to get compareable scans :frowning:

ASPI 4.6 is properly installed and i really tried EVERYTHING so far. I was thinking if a stock and non omnipatched fw (maby even HS0E) could solve the problem. What do you think? Thanks in advance :iagree:


#2

It has to do with the drive itself, I have found media I burnt last month wont read in the drive any more. But it still worked in my DVD-ROM so I flashed back to a restart point I made then and viola, the disks were readable again. Since this is a read problem I think I can narrow it down given time. But when I mentioned this problem I was jumped on so its like just me with the problem and just me working on it when I feel like it. So dont screw up your working system. Its the drive. The problem can be easily fixed once you can narrow it down… err narrow it down some more.


#3

What exactly do you mean with “narrow it down”? I was thinking if i should (and if it would be useful) to flash the drive with a “new” EEPROM if this is even possible…


#4

perhaps it would be better to start over at this point and see what happens
Bruce


#5

At this time I´m sure you know very well, you can only flash your drive with “your” own eeprom. :cool:

Do you have a backup?

:wink:


#6

Sadly i don´t have made a backup at the point when the scans were good, since i didn´t even know what EEPROM is cause i didn´t even know this forum…


#7

it is still fix abale


#8

@braynes
But how is it fixable? Could you go a little more in detail?


#9

go to the frist page of the Lite-on forum,read the stickers,etc,you should be abel to flash it in dos see the list of tools and read the stickers
Bruce


#10

You surely mean i should flash it with MTK Flash in real DOS. But i first need to know if this would really fix the read problem as MTK Flash is a quite powerful and difficult tool (at least for me).


#11

I think he is talking about a drive that is mis-flashed. You use mktflash if the drive is toasted and does not show up in windows to flash using LTNFW.exe. Dont use mktwin because then you loose even working drives. Ltnflash 1.24.exe allows you to backup eeprom data as well.


#12

But there must be a possibility to remove this sucking read error as is wasn´t there when i first installed the drive… Or do the 811Ss degrade over time? That wouldn´t even surprise me with this shitty drive…


#13

Hi there,

I have a thread named ‘Questiions about…’ (yes, double ii) learning behaviour of Liteon drives.

I’m doing tests my own tests in my LDW-811s and have confirmed that Liteon ‘learns’ upon burning discs (EEPROM-based), but this learning process is buggy, trying to understand its behaviour, so we could guide in the right direction.

I can’t post right now, but it’s clear for me that Liteon **learns to read **; I mean that the very same disc with the very same firmware, but self-modified eeprom, the PI/PO level readings changes !!

By the way, I have observed general degradation of this Litey, maybe upon burning different mediacodes, changing firmware, … or maybe it degrades alone, despite the fact you could use the very same Brand/manufacturer media and same firmware / write-strategy, though unlikely.

In the very first learning (EEPROM change made automatically), that change is to the worse side, so next burn for the same media, at least, will likely to have higher PI/PO scans.

But I have checked that some kind of “READING strategy” (!!) changes too (at least HS0K firmware) and that change is in the beter-side, so PI/PO scans looks a lot better (for example, a PI reduction by 300 points in the very same disc is an amazing improvement, isn’t it?)

Well, I suffer the same problem; I didn’t know the difference (in this unit) between firmware (1MB in a flash ROM) and the EEPROM (1Kb), and less the learning properties of them. So I didn’t backup the EEPROM of my new 811s. Of course, Ihave backups right now, but it has ‘bad learned’ lessons.

The EEPROM is unique by unit; so you and me can not interchange eeproms, it’s NOT recommended and someway prohibited in this forum, BUT we can interchange info about so we can EXTRAPOLATE and learn about the [learning] behaviour of the Liteys.

I would like you to see that thread and get feeadback from you; for example, what are the values you have in the C0-FF zone of your EEPROM, simply doing a [non-dangerous] READ with LtnFW v1.2.4 (you can find easily OUTSIDE this forum, due to a logical policy: people easily dare to WRITE eeproms from others and toasts their drives, for example).

Hope this helps. Thanks.

I will post info tonight.


#14

@40tacos
Thanks. This sounds interesting. I´ll try to read my EEPROM with LtnFW an tell you my results.
Maby this interests you too… VERY weird! 1 week ago, i burned a DVD, and wanted to KProbe it just for fun expecting as worse scans as always. But look at this TYG01 scan!!! I don´t know why this happened and thought it would just be once, but than i scanned some other discs (RITEKG04 for example) and they always looked very good!
But the next day i tried to scan again and the scans were all as bad as before even with the same discs i scanned the day before. Does somebody have any explanation to this because this seems VERY strange to me… :confused:



#15

Hi there,

I have a possible explanation, because I have just had a similar experience. The reason would be … (b):

(a) It’s already known Liteys ‘learn’ aiming at future better WRITING. It’s not known exactly how it works, except some details as: the use of part of the EEPROM [at least C0-FF zone] as the memory for the learned lessons; the use of a rotating counter (1-4) located at ‘11C’; a debug zone located at 80-BF; and a bit more. Apart from Liteon (or Sony) employees :wink: only a few in this forum would know some how the learning process would be, but it’s maintained as a secret, don’t know exactly why, but I can imagine.

(b) Perhaps it’s not already known (I have proven it by myself knowing the EEPROM zone involved, but I haven’t posted yet the demonstrating tests): Liteys also ‘learn’ aiming at future better READING. At least, I have read absolutely nothing about this behaviour of Liteon drives in this forum.

Well, as any piece of software, both learning processes need algorithms and as such, they can have errors / bugs, so the effective learning can be made towards the opposite direction as desired. If this is the case, upon burning / reading some discs, the next write or read can be WORSE, instead of BETTER.

A ‘learning process’ is a ‘feedback process’ but it could depend on a lot of ‘uncontrolled variables’. I’m an electronic engineer and software engineer, so it’s clear for me that a learning process of DVD-writer units sound magnific, but in practice it may lead perfectly to a ‘low frequency, discrete oscillator’ !!. Sorry if this sounds fantastic or technically complex; but it may be perfectly real: the effect would be as observed by you: a day seems to work finely; other day seems to work badly. PI/PO scans of the very same discs can be significantly different using the very same reading unit and firmware, BUT with different experiences learned by the EEPROM…

Puff… this is becoming too long. I keep testing and enjoying :smiley:

Thank you,


#16

well i have not change sense “K” frm. and perhaps my 811 has “learned” as it reads great and burns rp01 ratec0-3 ,etc very well,perhaps i am lucky
Bruce


#17

Only for clarification:

We can assume that each time a disc is burned, a modification is made in the EEPROM content; it’s a 4 cycle learning process.

Making frequent backups of EEPROM is a good idea. By the moment, given the public VERY LOW knowledge of this learning process, writing the EEPROM is not a good idea. But research is unstopable …


#18

I tried to read my EEPROM but couldn´t find an entry called C0-FF or something like that. Could you explain a little more in detail what i have to search exactly cause i´m pretty new to this EEPROM stuff… Thanks so far!


#19

@Braynes

Maybe your drive is in the high of its ‘biorythm’. Backup your eeprom at this fantastic moment, with LtnFW 1.2.4 (button READ, then ‘save as file’, bynary).

I would want to see the appearance/content of the 80-11F zone, as shown with LtnFW 1.2.4 or an hexadecimal editor (like Winhex). Would you know how to do an *.PNG file with that info and post it here?

Thanks in advance!

@all
By the way, this is not an eeprom request, but a picture of part of the eeprom; in any case, we all already know that the eeprom of your 811s is diffrent from mine and any other; as much, we can only extrapolate info, but not to copy, because it’s clearly not recommended in this forum (other zones of eeprom contains particular data of your laser, as power, angle, etc).


#20

Hope this helps

@both
I send a picture. It’s easy to use; you should only be aware of pressing the button “READ” then “Save file”. If you someway feel UNSURE of what you are doing is PREFERABLY to do nothing. The real risk is pressing the wrong button (write). On the other side, upon reading, you can go down upto showing ‘C0’ at the left-upper corner and take a picture with Alt+Print, then paste into a program like adobe, paint, or paint shop pro and save preferably as PNG format.

A bit of reading about this program (google) is advisable.

@moderators
I understand this all is fair/plain good stuff; if something is wrong, please don’t hesitate to correct us. Thank you.