811s and slight movie jitters

I am using CMC MAG DVD-R’s that are 2x. I’ve noticed that my lite-on drive will produce backups that have slight motion freezes and jitter toward the beginning only, it’s fine after that.

My Optorite DVD-RW drive back ups the same item on the same media with no problems.

Is there something I can do to reduce the freezing frames?

Thank you.

Unfortunately no.
I’d say that the liteon burner doesn’t like this media, and so read errors are present on the disc.

Try Kprobe to see what the actual read characteristics are for that disc.

Remember 4x, 8ECC.

PI of <180 is under spec.
PO of <32 is under spec.

If you get more than that number, then pretty much the disc is pooched in any player which conforms to spec, and any which are not to spec.

You nailed it Debro,

K-Probe on the Disk burned in the lite-on has a PI > 259 and a PO = 12.

K-Probe on the disk burned in the optorite shows PI = 40 and PO = 1.2.

My guess is that Parity Inner the beginning of the movie…

Thanks…

Well if your theory is true, then NONE of my burnt DVDs would be readable. As I said in one thread, I have not produced one disc that is PI<280 and PO<32, in fact most are PI500-1000 and PO100 and above and all are fully readable on 2 different DVD-ROMs, 2 different DVD Writers and my standalone player, and all files are intact and binary compared 100%.
All media burnt at 4x BTW.

I use Maxell RICOHPNR01 and Memorex RICOHJPN01. All +R media. When I use +RW media the PI/PO is within spec. :slight_smile:

Since I wrote this post I made more tests, and it’s even more weird.

I tried burning at 8x then K-Probed, it started fair then bloody skyrocketed to over 280 like a rollercoaster and remaining consistently high.

YET the movie played fine on my Standalone DVD Player (picky one) from start to finish :slight_smile:

So this goes to show you mates, it’s all about MEDIA.

Here’s a little tip - why do you peeps have to scan at 4x ECC8 ? It’s pointless ! Given the bitrate of a DVD Video, your standalone player plays the disc at 1x anyways.

Try running the same scan at 1x ECC8 instead, and it’s a whole different ballgame.

I do that and I get EXCELLENT scans.

That’s what really counts for DVD Video, 1x scans! since that is what will be interpreted by your DVD Player.

If you get terrible results at 4x ECC8 scan, try it at 1x, you may notice excellent readings.

The problems people experience with players is mostly due to MEDIA “quality” and little to do with PI/PO errors.

Also if you are using Windows ME, I urge you to update to Windows XP. I haven’t burnt 1 coaster yet, and I always use NERO 6.3 and so far so good.

I am relieved now, as I had terrible luck with the bundled media :slight_smile:

TIP #2, just because you get high readings on your 811 (Kprobe errors) does not mean your media is hopeless. It can simply mean the 811 is not reading it / interpreting errors correctly. Analyse the same disc on another burner you may be surprised.

All the above tests are run on +R with booktype DVD-ROM, and at 4x and 8x.

More tests will be made and I will post a new thread about it.

Originally posted by Rimmer66
[B]Since I wrote this post I made more tests, and it’s even more weird.

I tried burning at 8x then K-Probed, it started fair then bloody skyrocketed to over 280 like a rollercoaster and remaining consistently high.

YET the movie played fine on my Standalone DVD Player (picky one) from start to finish :slight_smile:

So this goes to show you mates, it’s all about MEDIA.

Here’s a little tip - why do you peeps have to scan at 4x ECC8 ? It’s pointless ! Given the bitrate of a DVD Video, your standalone player plays the disc at 1x anyways.

Try running the same scan at 1x ECC8 instead, and it’s a whole different ballgame.

I do that and I get EXCELLENT scans.

That’s what really counts for DVD Video, 1x scans! since that is what will be interpreted by your DVD Player.

If you get terrible results at 4x ECC8 scan, try it at 1x, you may notice excellent readings.

The problems people experience with players is mostly due to MEDIA “quality” and little to do with PI/PO errors.

Also if you are using Windows ME, I urge you to update to Windows XP. I haven’t burnt 1 coaster yet, and I always use NERO 6.3 and so far so good.

I am relieved now, as I had terrible luck with the bundled media :slight_smile:

TIP #2, just because you get high readings on your 811 (Kprobe errors) does not mean your media is hopeless. It can simply mean the 811 is not reading it / interpreting errors correctly. Analyse the same disc on another burner you may be surprised.

All the above tests are run on +R with booktype DVD-ROM, and at 4x and 8x.

More tests will be made and I will post a new thread about it. [/B]

It’s possible that the paranoia over the PIPO error rates on the XX1 drives is caused by bad error reporting.
Or even possible that the reading quality of xx1 drives is terrible as well.

The reason we use kprobe at 4x rather than 1x is simply that it seperates the Good from the Bad.

Excellent media would have low PIPO error rates at 8x or higher.
Terrible media will have terrible results at any speed above 2x, 4x just exagerates it.

There’s no real point scanning everything at 1x as then everything will get an excellent scan, regardless of the discs actual reflectivity / readability.
We won’t be able to discern the difference between good and bad discs if we scan everything at 1x.

Mm yes I do agree, even if I still think that Max is a better setting than 4. Your x11 will never begin the read @4X anyway, except with Kprobe.

That said, scaning @1X 1ECC serves little purpose !

We also scan at 4x to save time. Scanning for an hour is not my idea of a good time :stuck_out_tongue: Plus when scanning at 4x the drive is locked at that speed so you get an even comparison across the entire disc. Scan any higher and it will start out at a lower speed then pickup near the end. That would not be as good for comparing.
There do seem to be some 411S/811S drives out there reporting more errors then they probably should be.
Do a couple transfer rate tests with DVDInfoPro and if the line is nice and smooth plus the DVD plays fine in a couple different set top DVD players you probably have one of these drives. Don’t worry about it.

I imagine that sometimes LiteOn wished they never supported Kprobe! Proabably caused more headaches for them in the long run then it’s worth. :iagree:

Both of the disc’s I mentioned above play well in all my stand alone players, it’s only when I use my portable DVD player that I notice the jitters on the disc with the higher PI and PO.

I ran a scan at 2.4x ECC8 this time, and the scan came out within specs. Scanning at 4x gives high PI/PO I don’t know why.

The point being a DVD Video is played at 1x, so it’s pointless to worry about high PIPO errors in KPROBE when scanned at 4x, since your DVD Player will NOT read the disc at 4x. Of course you can scan at a high rate to compare good and bad media, but my whole point is, if you use GOOD quality MEDIA, you shouldn’t worry about your LiteoN reporting high PIPO when KPROBED at 4x, :slight_smile:

I’ve burnt a Memorex 4x, at 8x on my 811S, and when KPROBED it it started well then a HUGE skyrocketing of PIPO and high PIPO throughout the whole disk I never seen so high of a PO which was in the thousands :smiley: Strangely enough the disc played from start to finish on my DVD Player WHY ? Because the DVD Player reads it at 1x :slight_smile: I think this is a case of a GOOD media combined with crappy reading from my liteon :slight_smile: So far I’ve done about a dozen movie DVDs, some at 4x some at 8x, and all have worked fine from the start of the movie to the end of it without problems… Same for all data and backup DVDs.

I took those discs reported with extremely high PIPO and played them on different DVD-ROMs and running a binary compare bit for bit with the original data on my HDD and ALL discs came out 100% identical.

AND to top it off, I applied CD Stomper labels to ALL of my DVDs and all worked perfectly. Interesting to note, that I ran all my probes before and after labelling and there were no changes in readings.

Another strange thing, I did notice when burning my Maxell or Memorex 4x, at 8x on my 811 that it would start burning at slow speed, get higher at some point, then finally switch to 8x, during switch periods the light would be orange briefly… I can see this transition in KPROBE scans, however when looking at the burnt DVD, it is nice and clean, no circles, marks or other anomalies reported by some peeps here, and no changes in colour, just perfectly even.

I’m still puzzled however as to the fact I can take my same media and burn it on another DVD burner, and scan the SAME media on my 811S in kprobe and get perfect results at 4x ECC8 scan, disc being still playable. This would rule out the bad reading theory.

I’m really puzzled by this.

Rimmer66,
what process do you use to back-up your dvd?

i use anydvd/clonedvd and burn them at 2.4x it’s too slow though. i’m afraid to burn my disc at 8x or 4x as i am afraid that it might not play well in my standalone.

i used to burn my -r at “max speed” in clonedvd but i sometimes get artifacts/freezing usually 2/3 of the movie that’s the reason why i slowed down my writing speed to 2.4x and changed my media to +r with booktype set to -rom.

Originally posted by eap_44
[B]Rimmer66,
what process do you use to back-up your dvd?

i use anydvd/clonedvd and burn them at 2.4x it’s too slow though. i’m afraid to burn my disc at 8x or 4x as i am afraid that it might not play well in my standalone.

i used to burn my -r at “max speed” in clonedvd but i sometimes get artifacts/freezing usually 2/3 of the movie that’s the reason why i slowed down my writing speed to 2.4x and changed my media to +r with booktype set to -rom. [/B]

I understand your concern, however keep in mind that the DVD Video you are burning is a data disc, and it isn’t any different than burning a CD Data at 4x compared to 48x, as long as the media is good and the data is readable.

I use anydvd + NERO. To make backups of my original DVD films I use DVD2One to rip and re-encode to fit my DVD, then use NERO to burn. Burning at 2.4x will not necessarily garantee you a problem free disc, in fact in some cases you may get more errors :slight_smile: The good media is certified to burn at a given speed. I have burnt all my DVD Videos at 4x and 8x, and they were read without a glitch. The 8x burnt media, despite the speed switching and orange lights, played all perfectly well.

Stick to QUALITY media, especially if you intend to make DVD Video, it’s worth the peace of mind. Stick to quality brands and brands that your 811 likes, and you should not worry about burning speeds. :slight_smile:

i am using memorex dvd+r made by ricoh. is this considered a good media? this media can be written both at 4x and 8x. would you consider to burn this type of media at 4x?

Originally posted by eap_44
[B]
i use anydvd/clonedvd and burn them at 2.4x it’s too slow though. i’m afraid to burn my disc at 8x or 4x as i am afraid that it might not play well in my standalone.

i used to burn my -r at “max speed” in clonedvd but i sometimes get artifacts/freezing usually 2/3 of the movie that’s the reason why i slowed down my writing speed to 2.4x and changed my media to +r with booktype set to -rom. [/B]

Nobody will be able to tell what work for you and what not. Different discs on same machine can give different result. So, best bet is to try it yourself. Burning at higher speed and test it or kprobe it. If it works fine for you, then stick with the speed. If you are kprobe freak like a lot of people here, you can kprobe every discs you burn. But from my experience, if it’s not those cheapo discs, it will give you pretty much same result throughout spindle.

I only kprobe discs when i start a new spindle/brand. Or randomly kprobe, sometimes, in the middle of spindle just to make sure that burning results are consistant with one i tested earlier.

I do not really take PI/PO number that seriously. But for my odd reason, i kprobe my DATA discs at max speed, figure that this is speed that normally DVD-ROM drive would read back from the discs. If it’s a DVD-Video, i just do it at 4x. After some trials, you can tell by looking at your 4x number whether or not your discs will play. Scanning at lower speed will give you a peace of mind that the discs are well under spec, but i don’t want to waste that much time. Beside, when you drive is not fully calibrate under spec, those PI/PO number will not be accurate anyway.

Originally posted by eap_44
i am using memorex dvd+r made by ricoh. is this considered a good media? this media can be written both at 4x and 8x. would you consider to burn this type of media at 4x?

I’m only talking now in terms of PERSONAL experience. I use MEMOREX 4x DVD+R as well (ID: RICOHJPN R01), I’ve burnt 6 of them so far, 2 at 4x and 4 of them at 8x, and ALL of them play fine on my 2 DVD Players (1 APEX, and a more expensive Sony). The Kprobes are well within limits (the 8x burnt one skyrockets during speed switching points) but still plays fine on my standalone.

Still, 4x burns a complete DVD in under 15 minutes, no complaint here. Remember this is a DATA disc, and your DVD Player will read it at 1x, so in theory you should not have any problems burning at 8x, providing the disc is GOOD and there is no serious anomalie during writing.

You have to try it on your own as results vary for different people.

This is a trial error thing :slight_smile: