716A low quality burns.. something wrong?

vbimport

#1

I have a 716A that I got at best buy in March, TLA 0304.

The best burn I’ve gotten so far is with the 16x Verbatim DVD+R that came with it (first attachment).

I have made bad burn after bad burn using Maxell DVD+R media and Verbatim DVD-R media when I burn at their rated 8x (or in Maxells’ case I can burn at 12x but that comes out worse).

2nd attachment is with Verbatim dvd-r 8x media (media code MCC02RG20) at 8x. Looks “acceptable” until the end… nothing like the nice scans I’ve seen posted here though.

3rd attachment is with the same media at 6x
4th attachment is with the same at 4x.

I have kept telling myself (usually with Maxell media) that I was putting crappy media through it, since the 16x burn with the verbatim 16x disc came out so well. After trying these Verbatim dvd-rs (in the supported media list), and getting bad burns I am not sure if there’s something wrong my drive or if I’ve been unlucky again in getting crappy media. I’ve been using plextools and roxio to burn…

Are there other tests I can do to check whether I should try to get another drive?

Thanks


#2

Really nice and IMHO the best proof that there is nothing wrong with your drive.

I have made bad burn after bad burn using Maxell DVD+R media and Verbatim DVD-R media when I burn at their rated 8x (or in Maxells’ case I can burn at 12x but that comes out worse).

2nd attachment is with Verbatim dvd-r 8x media (media code MCC02RG20) at 8x. Looks “acceptable” until the end… nothing like the nice scans I’ve seen posted here though.

Given the more or less perfect result (PIE wise) of the 16x +R above I think we can savely rule out a mechanical problem of your drive. Verbatim 16x +R are known to be of very high quality. In my personal experience this ist not necessarily true for anything that has written Verbatim and 8x (be it -R or +R) on it. My results Verbatim +r 8x printable were worse than your result. Non-printable was similar or slightly better than your result.

3rd attachment is with the same media at 6x
4th attachment is with the same at 4x.

IMHO proof that this media just isnt’ up to 8x. Generally speaking a raise at the end of the disc can be interpreted as “you should slow down the speed”

I have kept telling myself (usually with Maxell media) that I was putting crappy media through it, since the 16x burn with the verbatim 16x disc came out so well. After trying these Verbatim dvd-rs (in the supported media list), and getting bad burns I am not sure if there’s something wrong my drive or if I’ve been unlucky again in getting crappy media. I’ve been using plextools and roxio to burn…

The big problem is that even the fact that the media is on the recommended list does not make for a guarantee for the quality of the media. You’ll want to read the introductory remarks to the list on Plextors website:

http://www.plextor.com/english/support/media_716.htm

I’ll give you a personal experience: In my hunt for quality 16x media i found TDK +R und -R 16x in local stores (TDK MID). -R ist recommended by Plextor, while +R is only considered compatible. Below are the scans for +R burns (with Firmware 1.04) and -R (FW 1.06) at 16x. In the case of +R PoweRec slowed down to 12x before worse things happened. In the case of -R the same happened but the result was (IMHO) generally worse than with +R. As you can see a ‘compatible’ media beats a ‘recommended’ one.

Are there other tests I can do to check whether I should try to get another drive?

Try to get hold of other known good media and run some more tests. If you can, try to get your hands on some Taiyo Yuden disks. (Plextor branded disks are a sure source, see their website for how they look) If the results of for examplex +R 8x TY either at 8x or 12x is the same than your +R 16x Verbatim scan then you can be certain your drive is ok and its the media.






#3

My test results using Maxell DVD+R media wasn’t that good but had great results with Verbatim DVD+R (supports up to 16x), the media that came with my Plextor PX-712SA :wink:


#4

@ucdcrush: Looks to me like there’s nothing wrong with your drive. All of the media you describe has shown variable quality. But before you give your drive a clean bill of health, you should try some TY media. Fuji DVD+R and Fuji DVD-R 8X with MADE IN JAPAN on the label, not TAIWAN, is TY media. At their rated 8X speed, burns are phenomenal, at 12X usually excellent, and at 16X sometimes excellent. Check beta/jitter as well. Sometimes discs with low PIE/PIF scores still have terrible jitter.

Also check the CD section of your drive using Maxell CDRpro 48X discs. My second drive burned DVDs well, but CDs couldn’t burn above 16X.

It’s too bad we all end up being Plextor’s annexed Quality Control group!


#5

It’s a longshot, but try doing a FE/TE scan first. <shrug>

For the most part, you should get great results from all Maxell media as well as the TY. ucdcrush, your first scan is beyond spec … what kind of disc (and result) does the diagnostic self-test produce? Using the Maxells should be fine since they are indeed recommended media.


#6

@ucdcrush: could it be that your drive has problems burning DVD-R? It could be the media, but my feeling is that it is probably your drive. I second and third PX-716SA drives showed a large variation in their ability to burn high quality TY 8X DVD-R discs (from the same 10-pack of media!). You need to try the Fuji Made in Japan (Taiyo Yuden) 8X DVD-R discs. Best Buy and Kmart sell this media in the USA–Be sure the labeling says Made in Japan, as that is the only way to be sure you are getting the right media prior to purchasing the discs. I got a 15-pack spindle of this high quality media Fuji 8X DVD-R TY Made in Japan (TYG02) from Kmart last night for $9.99. My new PX-716SA drive loves this media at 8X, but has issues if the speed is increased to 12X (at least with the TYG02 discs I’ve tested so far). So get this media and burn it at 8X–if your drive is working properly, you should get great burns. If not, try another spindle/package of the same Fuji Made in Japan 8X DVD-R media. If that doesn’t work, then it is very likely that your drive has issues burning DVD-R discs.


#7

Thanks for the ideas guys. I had actually tried some other discs, including some HP 8x DVD+Rs (I dont recall the media code) and some Staples brand 8x DVD+Rs (sorry, didnt know the importance of media codes when I had these either, and returned them too), both of which I got scan results (like above) that were jagged and in some cases off the chart at 8x.

I’ll try some TY DVD-Rs (my DVD-rom drive only reads -Rs so I’d rather make DVD-Rs in case I need to copy one) and see how it does there at 8x and beyond and will post some results.


#8

too bad your -ROM drive only reads -Rs because in my experiences, my 2 716As burn +R media far better than -R media. granted i’ve only sampled 3 MIDs of -R (Verb 16x -R MCC 03RG20, Verb 8x -R MCC 02RG20 and TDK 8x -R TTG02). IMHO the “poor” quality of your scans above can be attributed to the media and the 716s write strategies for variable quality -R discs and NOT a defective drive.


#9

Personally, I’d rather stick with DVD+R’s anyway. You don’t need two drives to copy a DVD you know. OK, so it will be slower because you have to copy to disk first. But how often do you need to do this?

Chip


#10

Ok! I picked up some Fuji DVD+Rs at bestbuy for 9.99 after rebate for 25. The DVD-Rs they had were all MIT.

The code on this is Yuden000 T02.

Using plextools for burning, The first attachment is a scan of an attempt at a 16x burn which came out bad. It said the last speed used (forget the exact language) was 8x. Time to burn was 5:41.

I tried the same burn at 8x, and that is the second attachment onward, including a CDspeed read speed test. It took 7:30 to burn this disc. Looks like I was using cheap media before, but damn this thing seems to be picky…I guess I’ll only buy TY from now on.






#11

While Plextor offers ‘overspeed’ burning for TY 8x discs up to 16x this is often not successful, as you just have experienced yourself. Your scan shows very nicely that these disc holds up to speeds as high at 12x and then starts do degrade quickly. The general rule is that one should reduce speed when there is a raise of errors towards the outer area of the disc.

It’s not so much the drive as the variance in the media. If you look at the sticky thread that has all the scanning results you’ll find 16x burns of those media with constant below 20 PIE values. However I’d recommend you stick with 12x or even 8x, depending how importand you consider the data you’re trying to put on the disc.


#12

@ucdcrush. Did you have power record enabled and did you do a media quality check before burning @16x as 5:41 is fast. Like hwp says the variance in media even with TY is quite a bit. I burn a lot of YUDEN000 T02 and only burn it at 16x if it passes the 12x media quality check.:slight_smile:


#13

that’s why you gotta stock up on TYs and other good MIDs when you have the chance :wink: nice 8X burn.


#14

@crossq: I did have PowerRec enabled, but did not do a media quality check…would have been a good idea but I couldn’t wait to see how it would burn at 16x so I basically ripped open the package, stuck a disc in and burned :slight_smile:

thanks guys.


#15

Let me put my two cents in here. I have found that MCC004 and TYT02 discs that fail the Plextools Media Quality Check and the FE/TE test often burn just fine at 16X! However, these discs, like all other discs that burn at 16X, will not achieve 16X with PoweREC enabled, because the oversensitive PoweREC kicks in and switches to the 12X write strategy right after the 1 GB mark. The first attachment below shows this behavior–this is usually what my drive does during a typical “16X” burn. During a few actual burns, I did see what happened in the second attachment–where the drive continues with the 16X write strategy until it is around 14X–15X and then PoweREC kicks in and lowers the speed to 12X. I have never seen any of my 3 716SA drives achieve 16X with PoweREC enabled. Of course, this lack of reaching 16X with PoweREC enabled is a well known problem with the 716 series–my drive definitely reaches 16X with PoweREC OFF (of course, my write quality suffers quite a bit with PR OFF which is the problem!). Real 16X burns on high quality MCC004, TYT02, TYG02, and MCC03RG20 media with PoweREC ON is the #1 change I want to see in the 1.07 firmware.




#16

you’re contradicting yourself here. how can you say PR is being oversensitive when you say with PR OFF your write quality suffers quite a bit? PR is working the way it’s supposed to and dealing with the variations in quality of each individual piece of media.


#17

I see your point. What I mean here is that PoweREC is being “oversensitive” in the sense that the drive could, like many other 16X rated DVD burners, burn high quality MCC004 (the decent MCC004 discs I mean, not the lower quality ones) and other high quality media DVD media at the rated 16X speed and not suffer write quality issues. In other words, you could go through all the boxes of MCC004 Verbatim 16X DVD+R discs you wanted to go through, and you would not be likely to find a single disc that could be burned at 16X with PoweREC ON. Is the media this bad? No, it is variable in quality, but not that bad. The drive should be designed to burned the 16X capable MCC004 (the good discs which I know exist because other drives can do it) at true 16X while maintaining the same good write quality that the drive can already do with the good discs. I don’t want to start a flame war here–it is already well known that the 716 series is not a good 16X DVD burner because of this issue–you don’t buy one if you want to actually burn DVD+R or DVD-R at 16X. Other 16X DVD burners can burn MCC004 at true 16X while maintaining high burn quality.


#18

a number of my MCC004 discs burn @ a full 16x no prob…same with many others’ drives. i think you’re making an unwarranted blanket statement and i’m not trying to start a flame war at all.


#19

I thing the short story tlozt meant: Other burners can burn quality media at true 16x, why cant 716a? I tend to agree with this statement.

But there’s a reason I supposed. And perhaps a good reason. My BenQ can burn 16x excellent, most of the time, not always. Once a while, with “crappy” quality media (ie one or two crappy TY or MCC in a spindle) it will make a coaster: high PIE/PIF because the 14-16x speed at the end. However, my 716a never make a coaster because it slowdowns at the end. The downside is, it will slowdown even if PoweRec sense the media is good at the end.

So I guess there’s good and bad thing about PowerRec oversensitive, also about true 16x. :slight_smile:


#20

Cool–I didn’t know that anyone actually got this drive to achieve 16X with PoweREC with this media. So my point is not entirely correct. However, I do not want wish to pursue it–I respectively disagree with you on this subject. I could reword what I am saying to include that info that some MCC004 can make 16X, so it reflects your experiences, but I just don’t want to start a real argument here. I respect you drpino, and I just don’t want to argue with you. Let’s just let us respectively disagree, okay? You got to remember that a lot of life is about respect–we all have our own experiences with this drive, and I have spent enough time testing 3 different 716SA drives with MCC004 from enough different batches. But I now have a new 716SA drive, so who knows, maybe my drive could hit 16X with PoweREC ON with the right MCC004 disc? I have had the drive come close to hitting 16X before.