716A Bad scans? RMA? What do you think?

vbimport

#1

Hi cdpeople,
I am pondering to RMA this 716A or not.
Going by the info below, what do you think?

Windows XP V5.01.2600 Service Pack 2
A7N8X Deluxe 2 using Msft drivers not nvidia

Description: IDE/ATAPI Port Driver (Microsoft Corporation)
Location : C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\atapi.sys
Version : 5.1.2600.2180 (xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-2158)
Date :

ID 0: PLEXTOR DVDR PX-716A V1.04 (S/N:######) (#.##.##L - #.#.##L)
Read speed: 5-12X CAV, Jumper settings: 001, Buffer Underrun Proof enabled
Blank DVD+R, MCC 004 00

CD/DVD Copy Log

Selected write speed:
include: UPC: no ISRC: no CD+G: no
1st session only : no
Allow Overburning : yes Leave Disc Open: no
Audio Error Detection : disabled
-Advanced error detection disabled
-Maximum errors : unlimited
-Allow Speed Down : no
Read Error Recovery Strategy : 1. Report Errors only (no recovery action).

Start Write Copy 1/1
Writing Lead In
Writing Track 1 Start:00:00.00 Length:498:55.71 4385 MB
Writing Lead Out
AutoStrategy Result:
AutoStrategy function is not executed.
Selected Write Speed : 16.0 X
Maximum Media Write Speed : 16.0 X
Actual Last Write Speed : 12.0 X PoweRec : enabled
CD/DVD Copy completed successfully

http://webpages.charter.net/smoky_mtns/sum8.jpg
PIE POE POF
Avg 1.17 - -
Max 68 - -
Total 164710 - 0

http://webpages.charter.net/smoky_mtns/sum1.jpg
PIF POE POF
Avg 0.01 - -
Max 4 - -
Total 1876 - 0

These are common on mcc 04 16x rated media.
Although its never reached 16x.


#2

Why? Looks like a fine burn to me.


#3

The scan looks good?
I dont know alot about this stuff but the sum8 looked a bit high?
Thats why I’m asking you guys .
Thanks for the reply :slight_smile:


#4

Yes it’s normal. I read somewhere, when the PIF reaches 4 (which is the limit for a good burn), then PowerRec kicks in and lower the burn speed.

You can see from your sum1 scan the PIF reached 4 at around 4gb and that is when it started to lower the speed to 12x. If you want to see the actual speed burn from start to the end of the disk, download Nero CD Speed, insert a blank disk and press F9 (create data disk).


#5

Cool! thanks zevia!
I can see now what its doing.

Will try the cd speed thing.

Update:
Ok heres what cdspeed says
http://webpages.charter.net/smoky_mtns/cdspd.jpg


#6

The scan is good. From Plextor FAQ:
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=49767#plextools-ptgraphmeaning

Q: What do these graphs mean, have I burned a “coaster”?
A: Some people think the graphs have no “real world” use because poor scan results are often still playable, without skipping or “pixelation”, in a set-top DVD Player. However, Plextools shows a darker line at the 280 PIE level and at the 4 PIF level on the graph scales. These are the maximum number of PIE and PIF errors in the recordable DVD specification, and most consider a scan exceeding these values to be a “coaster”. The presence of a single Parity Outer Fail (POF) is almost certainly a coaster. A further refinement of PIE interpretation has arisen via consensus of the posters in the Plextor forum. Namely, the PIE values all the way across the graph mean:

[ul]
[li]Under 20 - Excellent quality[/li]> [li]From 20 to 99 - Very Good quality[/li]> [li]From 100 to 280 - Good quality[/li]> [li]Over 280 - Poor quality[/li]> [/ul]If your Plextor DVD writer is working well, you should be able to find a media/burning speed combination that consistently produces Excellent quality results. A good starting point is to use Plextor recommended media, and record on it at the rated speed on the disc packaging

In addition to above values, I would suggest to consider PIF and POF:

Excellent: PIE max <20, PIF<=4, POF=0
Very Good: PIE max <100, PIF<=4, POF=0
Good: PIE max <280, PIF<=4, POF=0
Bad: PIE max >280, and/or PIF>4, and/or POF>0

Good luck in researching those terms/values. :wink: <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->


#7

Thanks tons zevia!
Man, you guys know your stuff here :bow:


#8

Sounds reasonable to me … BUT: PIF (in WOPC) is not counted continuously (one might say “on-the-fly”), but it is counted during the few spots where the recording graph shows speed drops. If you are lucky enough that your drive catches a high PIF value at that specific point, POWEREC will do its thing … if not … bad luck :bigsmile:

I am still dreaming of a “dual pickup” drive (one pickup for writing, one for analyzing) that performs a real-time analysis during the write process and adjusts its recording strategy according to its measurements …


#9

If you are lucky enough that your drive catches a high PIF value at that specific point, POWEREC will do its thing … if not … bad luck

So you are saying that PR could miss a spot and make a bad disk?
But scans done on the same batch of media are real close, some almost exact copies, so
I guess its ok? As long as PR stays healthy ?:confused:


#10

Here are the scans of the disk that nero cdspeed made
I would chance a guess that 16x is out of the question on this drive.

http://webpages.charter.net/smoky_mtns/cpysum8.jpg
PIF POE POF
Avg 1.91 - -
Max 305 - -
Total 273781 - 0

PIE: ECC Blocks 137321-137328 detected 281 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 137409-137416 detected 288 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 137521-137528 detected 282 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 137561-137568 detected 302 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 137577-137584 detected 298 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 137585-137592 detected 287 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 137601-137608 detected 286 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 137617-137624 detected 285 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 137625-137632 detected 290 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 137729-137736 detected 282 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 137761-137768 detected 293 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 137769-137776 detected 289 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 137809-137816 detected 295 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 137817-137824 detected 289 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 137825-137832 detected 301 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 137905-137912 detected 305 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 137985-137992 detected 286 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 138065-138072 detected 303 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 138137-138144 detected 284 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 138185-138192 detected 294 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 138225-138232 detected 281 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 140481-140488 detected 293 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 140905-140912 detected 289 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 140921-140928 detected 282 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 141025-141032 detected 281 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 141113-141120 detected 284 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 141129-141136 detected 297 errors
PIE: ECC Blocks 141209-141216 detected 293 errors

http://webpages.charter.net/smoky_mtns/cpysum1.jpg
PIF POE POF
Avg 0.02 - -
Max 10 - -
Total 2682 - 0

PIF: ECC Block 136458 contains 6 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 136740 contains 5 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 136882 contains 5 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 138227 contains 6 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 138297 contains 7 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 138645 contains 5 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 139024 contains 5 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 139347 contains 5 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 139805 contains 7 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 139809 contains 6 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 139827 contains 5 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 139849 contains 5 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 139932 contains 10 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 139954 contains 5 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 140146 contains 7 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 140575 contains 8 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 140706 contains 5 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 140741 contains 6 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 140767 contains 5 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 140890 contains 6 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 140986 contains 8 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 141052 contains 7 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 141066 contains 10 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 141131 contains 6 uncorrectables
PIF: ECC Block 141214 contains 5 uncorrectables


#11

Elo, I think you’re worrying too much. :slight_smile:

Your above scan only shows that one particular disc didn’t burn well at 16x.

This might also mean that this media shouldn’t be burned at 16x on your drive, but it could be just that one disc.

It definitely should not lead you to the conclusion that your drive cannot burn any media at 16x!

The scans in your first post look really good, and that disc was also burned at 16x!


#12

While we’re on the topic of what constitutes a good/bad burn, can someone please tell me if this +R DL burn is bad due to all the high number of POEs? I understand that the PIE is in the normal range, but the POE seems high based on what I’ve read. The disc is a Verbatim 2.4x DL disc that was burned at 6x. I tried burning one at the rated 2.4x and it came out worse (and was an expensive experiment!)

It would be helpful if Plextools would just rate the disc in some concrete terms, but then I suppose we’d have nothing left to talk about here on the forum… :wink:

Plextor 716a TLA 0203 with firmware 1.04
Test was high-accuracy burst mode test:
Avg Max Total
PIE 1.28 45 323052
POE 0.13 266 33891



#13

There really are no standards for POE from whave I’ve been able to gather. Judging by the PIE that disc should be perfectly playable; how is it?


#14

The movie plays fine except at the layer change, where if I’m listening to the DTS track the sound stutters for a few seconds before the change. If I listen to the DD audio it’s fine, but I posted this message because I wanted to rule out the disc as the culprit. I also changed the booktype to DVD-ROM, so when I try and run the TA test (which actually gives a disc rating) Plextools complains and says it’s not meant for DVD-ROMs.

Thanks for the quick reply. :smiley:


#15

@elo: the PIFs are higher than spec on your CD Speed data disc. how does the read transfer rate look? just keep in mind that the PX716A is a very good reader and not all drives/players will be as tolerant.

@Joe14000: can you run a test that shows POFs? and what are the black lines that appear only in the 2nd layer? TA Test should work on discs that are bitset to DVD-ROM.


#16

I just tried the TA test again and still get the error message “This function not available on DVD-ROM media”

As for POF, there weren’t any on the scan (sorry, that part didn’t copy with my original post of the log) Here’s the POF result as displayed by Plextools:

Avg Max Total
POF - - 0

As for the black lines, I think those are the result of a hasty JPEG conversion. In the original BMP the lines are all red POE lines.

Does this info change anything? :confused:


#17

i’ve definitely run TA Tests on DL +R burns bitset to DVD-ROM (see here: http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p=864628&postcount=352)…try restarting your PC. no POFs is a good sign so i wouldn’t worry about the POEs. what did you use to burn the DL disc? DVD Decryptor has a Preferences setting under ISO write to automatically choose where the Layer Break should be. i’ve successfully used Decryptor to burn my DL discs.


#18

DrageMester Thanks, I’d rather be paranoid then have to rma a good drive. :slight_smile:

drpino here is a scan of read.
http://webpages.charter.net/smoky_mtns/read.jpg

To all that replied Thank you.
I’m still going through data and info and links that you all
gave me.
Sheesh, I just wanted to burn some dvds not get a masters degree in dvd technology :eek:

I’d also add that I’ve burned dl media , not scanned it though, and played it in 3 dvd players
2 apex , 1 lite-on and on another pc with a px 504 and I couldnt even detect the layer breaks.
Smooth as silk, I recorded from the lite-on stand alone recorder
cut commercials and copied to HD with dvd shrink as an iso
then burned to dl disk with plextools.


#19

your read transfer reflects the high PIFs in your sum1 scan but your drive gets through them ok. if it’s a movie, standalone players read at 1X unless fast forwarding/rewinding so you should be ok unless “seeking” near the end of the disc. if it’s data, i would reburn at a lower speed just to prevent any premature degradation of the disc that may occur due to the higher than spec error rates near the end of the disc. i know it’s a CD Speed Data Disc so it doesn’t matter for this one.


#20

Thanks drpino.
It is actually 2 movies. (the first set of scans)
they play really well on all my dvd players too.
I was so worried, with the posts of bad drives that maybe I got a bad one.
You people here are so knowledgeable and I’ve learned more today
than I thought there was to learn about dvd burners.
I really appreachiate the help :bow: