712A: data verification fails - why?

Please help…! I’ve got some serious trouble here…

After finishing a DVD, Nero fails to verify the written data. I checked the errors with the COMP command, and they are real; the difference is “only” 1 or 2 bytes per disc.

Drive: Plextor 712A, TLA#0103, firmware upgraded to v1.05. (The Plextor drive is secondary master, with a HDD as slave. All drives are in DMA mode.)
The error was present both with firmware 1.03 and 1.05.

Motherboard: ASUS A7V266-C (don’t know which 4in1 driver is installed)

OS: Windows 2000 Professional (don’t know which service pack is installed)

Burning SW: Nero 6.3.1.6. (came with drive)

PlexTools version: 2.12 (came with drive). I switched to “Silent Mode” but left everything else as it was.

Media: Commodore DVD-R (4x) / Verbatim DVD-R (8x); I tried some PI/PO tests and they seem perfectly OK to me. No POF error, PI peak around 20-30.

Does/did anybody have similar problem?
What should I check / upgrade / replace / do?

thanks,
Gábor from Hungary

Things to try:

Uninstall any VIA IDE driver (load the default MS) -
Upgrade Nero to 6.3.1.25 (most stable/recent 6.3.x.x version) or the new 6.6.0.1

Plextools to 2.18 (I don’t think this will fix your problem, but might be worth a shot).

Is the media the cause?
Commosore DVD-R (4x) media - never heard of this, who manufactures it?
Verbatim -R media (should be decent)

There should not be any difference in the files when using the COMP command (This is the same as FC in XP, isn’t it?) You could also try a program like CD Check to compare the disc with the original files (neat tool, probably won’t help you though).

If a disc shows a difference, I would toss it and reburn (if you consistantly have this problem you might want to consider an RMA).

Do you mean the verification process failed or the verification failed? A while back I had problems with Nero freezing during verification. I never resolved it and never bothered with it again. It was more useful writing a CRC to the disc and checking that. If you mean the verification process succeeded but the verification failed, despite a satisfactory PIPO scan, then that is indeed disconcerting. It takes long enough to do a PIPO scan. Having to add a file compare check too would be a real PITA.

Also something that can make verification fail: If the files you write to DVD are modified before the verification process finishes. This could happen if you are backing up some files on your system while those files are open in some program.

Nero verification adds about another 6-7 mins to the burn process, which is 4x faster than a PIPO scan. If the verification fails, a PIPO scan is quite unnecessary.

For data (esp. the hard-to-replace kind, like your own digital photos or spreadsheets), I would recommend doing a verification and then doing a PIPO to see how pretty it is.

Corrupt/lost data is the biggest PITA there is. I once woke up to see a blue screen from Windows telling me “Failure reading drive C:” and that was the last I ever saw of that 30GB of data. I’m a lot wiser these days…

Hello!

I had the same failure with my 712A. I tested a lot and i found that the problem only exists if a second drive or HDD is connected to the same IDE channel.
So try to connect your 712A as master and no other device as slave at the IDE channel!!!

Thank You for all the advices!

  1. the verification process was completed, and it showed some difference between the files on the DVD and the files on the HDD.
  2. the files have not been opened by any other application during the write process. (Oh my, do I seem to be so stupid? Must improve my English immediately…)

I’m going to buy some DVD-RW for testing; I’ll try these steps:

  1. remove secondary slave HDD (didn’t think that this can cause any problem, aside of speed issues)
  2. uninstall Nero, clean up Registry with Nero’s tool then with RegCleaner, reinstall Nero
  3. upgrade Nero to the latest stable 6.3.x.x release (I don’t trust in 6.6.0.1)
  4. update Via 4in1 driver
  5. update motherboard’s BIOS
  6. remove Via 4in1 driver
  7. replace HDD data cable
  8. test RAM modules with “memtest”; replace bad modules if any
  9. remove second RAM module (I have two RAM modules from different manufacturers)
  10. try on Linux
  11. try in other PC

Do You agree?

regards,
Gábor from Hungary

Hi!
Commodore DVD-Rs are manufactured by Interaxia AG, Switzerland.

Gábor from Hungary

Hi again…

I removed the secondary slave HDD (the rack stayed). Then I tried to burn a DVD+RW for testing, and it was OK. I happily burned 3 other DVDs and only 1 of them contains corrupted data. Yippee. :frowning:

I reinstalled Nero and updated the Via 4in1 driver. Next time I’ll remove the rack, and I’ll replace the present 3-end IDE cable with a new 2-end one, to exclude the possibility of a defective rack or cable.

Gábor from Hungary

Hmm.

I did some screwdriver work and now my disk layout is the following:

primary master: HDD - in a new rack
primary slave: HDD - in a new rack
sec.master: PX712A - on a new cable
sec.slave: none
I removed one of the two memory modules.

Result: coasters, coasters, coasters.

Then I tried to stop PlexTools and burn with Nero, then to write with PlexTools. Result: even worse. One Verbatim had over 600 POFs.

not tried yet:

  • upgrading Nero
  • reinstalling Nero
  • try burner in another PC
  • try another burner in my PC (this is the next)

It seems that ther is no such thing as RMA procedure in Hungary.

Some questions:

  • I heard that there can be a problem with something called the “ASPI layer” or “ACPI layer”, I don’t know. What is this thing, what is it good for, and what can be done with it? Can I determine its version, uninstall or reinstall it?
  • How can I determine the version of the installed Via Hyperion driver? how can I remove this driver?

Sorry for being lame.

“next time, Gadget, next time…”
Gábor from Hungary

Does anybody think that:
1- we should make backups of DATA on DVD-RAM (where there is a CRC control while writing)
2- and leave DVD± R (WORM) for video ?

Hi gabor_takacs,

I was just looking over this thread and it seems you aren’t getting many answers. I’ll try with some…

:eek: :eek: :eek:

None of your physical hardware changes should result in coasters, unless you reduced the RAM to a tiny amount. As long as you’ve got 128MB, that should be enough.

not tried yet:

  • upgrading Nero
  • reinstalling Nero
  • try burner in another PC
  • try another burner in my PC (this is the next)

I burned successfully with Nero 6.3.1.6 so the cause is probably not that. If you decide to reinstall (worth a try), you should “clean” the old Nero out with Nero’s “Clean Tool” - see www.nero.com for more information/download. If possible, it would be very useful to try the burner in another PC. That would narrow down the cause to either the PC or the PX712a. If it works in another PC, it must be the PC. If it doesn’t, it must be your PX712a. Trying another burner is not as good a test but might also help pinpoint the cause. Can you try the drive in the store where you bought it, or did you get it from far away/mail order?

It seems that ther is no such thing as RMA procedure in Hungary.

Hungary is a member of the EU, and as such your Euro-warranty is valid. All you have to do is ship it to Plextor. Email info@plextor.com or support@plextor.com to find out where you should send it. They will pay for shipping in both directions and you should get a replacement in just a few days.

Some questions:

  • I heard that there can be a problem with something called the “ASPI layer” or “ACPI layer”, I don’t know. What is this thing, what is it good for, and what can be done with it? Can I determine its version, uninstall or reinstall it?
  • How can I determine the version of the installed Via Hyperion driver? how can I remove this driver?

The “ASPI Layer” is an interface to allow an application program (like Nero) to issue SCSI-like hardware commands to an E-IDE ATAPI device (burner) and also to interpret responses back from the device. For example, when you insert blank media into the PX712a, the PX712a will send information to ASPI. ASPI interprets this information and sends “change sense” information to Nero, which is constantly querying ASPI for new responses from the PX712a. Nero then knows blank media is now sitting in the drive with the tray closed - ready for burning. This is just a simplified explanation … ASPI is a standard set of (many) commands for controlling and interpreting burner performance. Burners and software have different features & functions, but all (IDE) burners accept standard ASPI commands and issue standard ASPI responses.

You can test your ASPI layer for problems from within Nero. Just double-click on
C:\Program Files\Ahead\Nero Toolkit\InfoTool.exe
When it finishes, click on the ASPI tab. If ASPI is OK, you should see a green box at the bottom and some text. If ASPI is not OK, please report the results here.

If possible, you really should try different media. Maxell’s dyes are all on the Plextor recommended list, can you get those (any speed, +R or -R) near where you live? Since you have some success recently, it’s probably not the PX712a or your computer but maybe low-quality media. It would help if you could Plextools SUM8-scan your successful burns.

I’m only guessing about Via Hyperion, but have you tried Control Panel’s Add/Remove program? Also, you might be able to do it Control Panel -> System -> Devices -> click on device (ie. IDE) -> select Remove. (You should also get the version information from here, too) Do this only if you’ve tried the above with no success.

Sorry for being lame.

We all are. :bigsmile:

Good luck, please let us know how it goes and I promise to get back to you quicker next time, sorry.

No (IMHO, of course). Nero Verify (or even DOS COMP) does a byte-for-byte comparison, which is even more trustworthy than CRC-32. I use my DVD burner for data backups almost exclusively and I don’t even own a DVD movie player (well … my PC has TV-out video).

For impossible-to-replace data, I burn two copies. Each disc is stored in a jewel case and never exposed to sunlight or unnecessary handling.

DVD-RAM is subject to many of the same problems as DVD±R (scratches, sunlight) … if the data is not backed up, it is at the same risk of being lost. Besides, you can turn VERIFY=ON for DVD±RW/CDRW if you want to immediately verify the burned data, although that will slow things down considerably. Only DVD-RAM in those hardshell cases is mostly immune, and you need a special burner to read it.

Like I’ve been telling computer users for 20 years: If your data is important to you, BACK IT UP! Media costs are nothing compared to the effort of trying to restore lost/corrupted data.

Wow ftp1020! Thanks for all the information!


I borrowed another burner, a NEC ND-3500A, from a friend. I put it into my PC and then I realized that the Nero I’ve got works with Plextor drives only. :((

I’ll try the PX-712A in my friend’s computer when he’ll come back from holiday (and if he will let me do so). It it fails, it goes back to Plextor.

I replaced my power supply unit. It was a cheap no-name 300W one, and now it’s a 420W Chieftec with active PFC.

Media: OK, I’ll try Maxell discs, although I don’t see what can be wrong with Verbatim. It’s also on the compatibility list of Plextor; I choosed Verbatim because I’ve burned tons of Verbatim CDRs with my old PX-W4012TA without any problems.

VIA Hyperion is not shown in the list of installed programs. Also, I can’t guess for sure which device belongs (or which devices belong) to VIA Hyperion in the Device Manager’s device list. For next time, I’ll post a screenshot of that device list.

I scanned a few burns with PlexTools’ PI/PO test, both successful and unsuccessful ones. There were no significant differences between the “successful” discs and the “data verification failed” discs. (No POF, PI peaks below 50.) I tried PlexTools and Burn4Free, and the discs I made with them are AWFUL and unreadable. I thought that Plextor’s own burning software will work well… and it didn’t. :frowning:


I’ll keep on trying, and I’ll post the results. Thank You for all the support,

Gábor Takács from Hungary

You’re very welcome!

I borrowed another burner, a NEC ND-3500A, from a friend. I put it into my PC and then I realized that the Nero I’ve got works with Plextor drives only. :((

Are you sure about that? I’ll take your word for it, but what did Nero do/say when you tried to use the NEC? I know NECs won’t do PI/PO scans, but… :confused:

I’ll try the PX-712A in my friend’s computer when he’ll come back from holiday (and if he will let me do so). It it fails, it goes back to Plextor.

In a way I hope it doesn’t work, because if it does you then have more “screwdriver” work to do. :sad:

Media: OK, I’ll try Maxell discs, although I don’t see what can be wrong with Verbatim. It’s also on the compatibility list of Plextor; I choosed Verbatim because I’ve burned tons of Verbatim CDRs with my old PX-W4012TA without any problems.

Maxell uses RICOHJPN, RG002, 002, and Yuden000 Media IDentifiers (MID) and all are recommended by Plextor, so at least when you buy discs with “Maxell” on the label, you are 100% guaranteed to be using Plex-recommended media. I heard some rumours that Verbatim was using Ritek G05 for 8x -R media for short while, and if so, you may have gotten some (it is NOT Plex-recommended). “Made in Singapore” 8x Verbatim Datalife Plus should all be either MCC03 or MCC02RG20. My best results ever are from Verbatim MCC03…

VIA Hyperion is not shown in the list of installed programs. Also, I can’t guess for sure which device belongs (or which devices belong) to VIA Hyperion in the Device Manager’s device list. For next time, I’ll post a screenshot of that device list.

It would be the IDE device. Some people have reported problems with NVidia IDE drivers, removed them in Device Manager, and allowed Windoze to install the default M$ IDE drivers with some success. Please always be careful in Device Manager…

I scanned a few burns with PlexTools’ PI/PO test, both successful and unsuccessful ones. There were no significant differences between the “successful” discs and the “data verification failed” discs. (No POF, PI peaks below 50.) I tried PlexTools and Burn4Free, and the discs I made with them are AWFUL and unreadable. I thought that Plextor’s own burning software will work well… and it didn’t. :frowning:

PIE and POF are 2/3 of the picture. 1 POF is certainly unreadable, but 800 PIE (way above 280 limit) might read just fine. My experience is that discs with high PIF are the ones that skip (during movie playback) and/or cause the drive to work very hard during data readback. You could also try Nero’s CDSpeed and do a “surface test” to see if some sectors are hard to read.

Good luck Gábor

You touched upon an important point by purchasing a new power supply. A 300W power supply is under-powered for most modern systems. The 420W Chieftec will provide much better power to your components. People often underestimate the importance of a good power supply, but it is one of the most important parts of any computer. Maintaining a pure flow of power to your components not only increases their life span, but in the case of DVD and CD-burners, is incredibly important to maintaining a consistent burn.

ImBAD

Hi ftp1020 & ImBAD!
Thank you for all the help!


Are you sure about that?

When I try to choose the NEC recorder Nero says that it is “not available”. It is a “Plextor edition” Nero…

In a way I hope it doesn’t work

I hope it, too. It would be a LOT easier to send the drive back to Plextor, wait a few weeks and get a new one. But before doing so, I have to be sure that the drive IS defective and everything else just works fine.

Next weekend I’ll reinstall my OS (and I won’t install the Via driver), just to be sure it’s NOT a software problem. I won’t install anything except a file manager, a checksum tool, PlexTools and Nero.

I heard some rumours that Verbatim was using Ritek G05 for 8x -R media for short while

Mpffff.
I’ll run the DVD Identifier on a few blank Verbatims as soon as I get home. I hope they are not Ritek-based.

You could also try Nero’s CDSpeed and do a “surface test” to see if some sectors are hard to read.

I’ll do so.

ImBAD, You pointed out the exact reason why I’ve bought a new PSU.

Just a few days and I’ll figure this out… at least I hope I will.

Gábor from Hungary

Hi again.

I tried the PX-712A in my friend’s PC.
Drives at normal use: two 120GB SATA HDDs + PATA NEC ND-3500A DVD burner as secondary master. We replaced the NEC with my Plextor and added an extra PATA HDD, a 80GB Maxtor, as primary slave.
OS: WinXP, Nero: 6.6.0.1., PlexTools: not installed. (Nero could enable PoweRec.)

The data we wanted to burn was on the Maxtor. After starting the burn process, Nero stopped immediately and claimed that the data was unreadable. (Fortunately it didn’t spoil the disk; according to the log, the drive was “idle” all the time.) We copied the data onto a SATA drive (of course it was perfectly readable), and tried to burn it from there. It succeeded, however while burning, the buffer level indicator (the little one, which shows the buffer of the burner) showed that the buffer becomes empty in every few seconds, then it becomes full again. Every time the buffer became empty, the LED on the burner was lighting green, then blinking orange again. It seemed that the Burn-Proof was activated every time.

After finishing the DVD, we removed the Plextor drive and inserted the NEC. It burned another 6 DVDs from the Maxtor HDD without any problems.

Now I really think that the drive is defective. It will be returned to the vendor (not to Plextor itself by mail, because we have a very bad mail service which tends to damage / lose / steal packages).
Unfortunately, solving warranty problems is also a tough thing here. Sometimes the vendor lies “it worked perfectly, there was no error”, gives the stuff back and even charges an examination fee - for doing nothing. Sometimes they just lie “we fixed / replaced the unit” and they give back the same thing, without reparation or replacement. And this lasts almost every time two weeks, because there is a law or something which determines the maximum length of solving warranty problems in two weeks, and companies have no interest in making it more quickly, even if they could.

(sorry for my terrible English)
Gábor from Hungary

That’s because it was all in Magyar! :bigsmile: Just kidding.

We copied the data onto a SATA drive (of course it was perfectly readable), and tried to burn it from there. It succeeded, however while burning, the buffer level indicator (the little one, which shows the buffer of the burner) showed that the buffer becomes empty in every few seconds, then it becomes full again. Every time the buffer became empty, the LED on the burner was lighting green, then blinking orange again. It seemed that the Burn-Proof was activated every time.

After finishing the DVD, we removed the Plextor drive and inserted the NEC. It burned another 6 DVDs from the Maxtor HDD without any problems.

Yes, that sounds like Burn-Proof. When the buffer empties (as yours seems to), Burn-Proof waits and repositions to the correct spot to continue burning. The green LED confirms the drive was idle.

Both of these experiments seem to indicate a data transfer problem to the 712. Did you confirm the 712 had DMA enabled? Adding a new burner to a Win2k/XP setup (one with no registry entries) often means the new unit will be auto-configured in PIO mode. Your friend’s XP would have already known about the NEC, and when it sees it, it properly configures itself.

Now I really think that the drive is defective. It will be returned to the vendor (not to Plextor itself by mail, because we have a very bad mail service which tends to damage / lose / steal packages).
Unfortunately, solving warranty problems is also a tough thing here. Sometimes the vendor lies “it worked perfectly, there was no error”, gives the stuff back and even charges an examination fee - for doing nothing. Sometimes they just lie “we fixed / replaced the unit” and they give back the same thing, without reparation or replacement. And this lasts almost every time two weeks, because there is a law or something which determines the maximum length of solving warranty problems in two weeks, and companies have no interest in making it more quickly, even if they could.

That doesn’t sound like a condition that Plextor, or the EU itself, would tolerate. If all you say is true, I would find a way to get it to the Austrian or German border and have it delivered to Plextor Europe from there. I would not take it back to the distributor under those conditions.

I would contact Plextor via email and ask them what they think you should do about returning it. Again, your European warranty means that Plextor is reponsible for shipping it back to them and returning it you - if they lose it, they replace it.

(sorry for my terrible English)

I can’t say I know a single word in Magyar, so your English must be pretty good. :slight_smile:

Hi, I’m back…

The vendor replaced the 712A with a brand new 716A this week (TLA#0203). I tried it and it produces the same errors! :eek:

I upgraded Nero from 6.3.1.6. to 6.6.0.1.

I tried to uninstall the Via Bus Master IDE Controller, which I thought is part of the Via Hyperion thing, but after reboot Win2K reinstalled it automatically. I realized that I really don’t know how to remove the Via Hyperion driver(s).

I’ll try these steps:

  • check the ASPI layer with Nero InfoTool
  • identify the dye manufacturer of Verbatim discs; if it’s Ritek, use something different instead
  • upgrade firmware to 1.04
  • perform a self-test on the drive
  • try the drive in another PC (again)
  • complete reinstall of Win2K
  • buy another drive (probably NEC 3500A)

Any advices?

Gábor from Hungary