2nd generation copy problem

there still seems to be a bug or copy portection glitch that affects copies made from a DVDfab copy. I’ve wasted a lot of time and mediia today trying to diagnose this but have gotten nowhere.

I make a 1st generation full disc copy to Verbatim blank via DVDFAB & the copy works fine in my stand alone DVD player & on my PC. But if I make a 2nd copy, using the 1st copy as source and using the same media -and the same DVDfab settings then the 2nd copy will not play in my stand alone player. I get the same phenomenon with the clone setting and with TY media and with slower burns, so there must be some difference between the original and the full disc copy ??? NB my PC can still read the 2nd gen copy, but my stand-alone can’t.

any ideas or suggestsions - the logs look fine - no read or write errors and I carefully avoided multi tasking on the PC while doing these tests. SO i don’t think it’s a burn compatibility issue. The Standalone panasonic player spends some time trying to find a title or header on the 2nd copy then just gives up & says that the disc is unreadable. SO there must be some essential bytes of data that are not being preserved in the double copy porcess ?

The 1st gen disc is region and copy protected free. You should even be able to copy the 1st gen disc with nero,ImgBurn etc…

I’ve never tried what you are doing with FAB though i might try it tomorrow.

thanks - that’s what I thought - but isn’t there also title & DVDtype data ( type of media data) that is different between the copy & the original. I don’t have the utilities to inspect this stuff unfortunately, But I supect that the 2nd gen problem is to do with what my burners do/don’t write to the dvd-R or DVD+r media, compared with what is on the original. I’ve noticed for instance that my older standalone DVD player ofewn does not know what to display as a title in its LCD panel when you insert a copied DVD, even though it can still play it OK.
I’ll maybe test some more with DVD-RW media as I don’t like wasting blanks.

Have not tried this setting, but have you tried [B]Clone[/B] setting when creating a 2nd generation copy. If you try this option, send output to HDD (if allowed) and test if it is playable on your computer. If it is, next step is burn it and hope you don’t add to coaster pile.

People here have said that a copy of a copy made with Fab should be able to be burnt with any burning software, however, when I try this with IcopyDVDs2 I get a message that it cannot do to the fact that it contains CSS protection. However using DVD shrink, it shows no protection.

I know this doesn’t help but it may aid in tracking down what’s up.

One question the 1st copy do you make as VIDEO_TS,AUDIO_TS type format OR an image file :confused:

Video I guess. Most often from Disc to Disc, you know through the temp folder. By image file, do you mean ISO. Almost never use ISO unless I have problems the regular way.

Hey buddy, How you been? I don’t know if you were talking to me or not but still real nice to hear from you. Ron :smiley:

Just put backup disc(1st gen) in drive,open Fab it will be set to full disk copy DVD-Video(VIDEO_TS folder> Target your burner and start…
And as stated you can keep burning with IMGurn if you like…

Hi cybmole,

Please try DVDFab 3.1.5.5 Beta to see the result:

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=224802

It fixes a problem when copying a copy for “Clone”.

Best Regards,
Fengtao

I’m fairly new at all this but have made new copies from my copies many many times using “full disk” and have never had any problems. Main reason is that it is quicker than using “main movie” from orginal. All my younger Grandkids can wear out their favorites regulary.

I usually use full disc copy in 2 stages 1. DVD to HD, 2 HD to blank, I rarely use clone, beacuse for some discs it fails at the end of the read step, just before starting the burn which is frustrating. i.e. the whole disc reads ok then there is a task failed message. I don’t use ISO, justt he default full disc option on 3.1.4.0 from D drive to C:/DVDfab, then from there to E: drive as step 2… BUt I then delete the C:/DVDfab folder to save HD space.

One of the “coasters” that I made yesterday did work in a different, older standalone player which just adds to the confusion.

Donovan - I, pretty sure that I’ve done it successfully in the past also, it just seems to be a problem with some titles & I can’t spot the specific issue which is causing the problem. I’d like to, because it undermines my confidence in how good the rest of my backups are!

PS fentgtao, I’m using 3.1.4.0, but I’ll switch to 3.1.5.5. as soon as it becomee a final release version

yes, the problem must be in that area - I can always restore backup copies to HD & they play fine from there. It’s when I then re-burn from that copy that the problem sometimes arises - I’ve not yet tried burning with other porgrams like roxio, as I really want to understand what fab is doing right/wrong so that I can reliably always work with just the one program & method.
NOte also, it’s not that the 2nd gen copy plays badly on a standaone, it’s that the standalone simply will not recognise the DVD as valid format. SO it msut be to do with how fab recreates the basic IFo structures & title & media type on the 2nd gen copy. I have the “set to DVD-ROM” box ticked in common settings, and I have the DVD size set to 4.7GB, other than that all settings are defaults. I’ve not changes the packed writing default as my 1st gen copies are working fine as-is.

Hello, cybmole. Welcome to the group. I know that this probably doesn’t help much, and I’m not gloating either, but I just make sure that all other progs are closed down before using DVDFab, and I’ve gone as far as a sixth generation copy using my £12.50/100 dvd’s.

DVDFab is the only software I use for this purpose, as I’ve had so many bad experiences with crap software which claimed to be able to do what DVDFab does very easily.

My kit is bog-standard, and home-built. Nothing fancy. See you later, then. Jim :wink:

I think this is actually a media issue after all!.

after lots of testing I find that my Panasonic DVD recorder is quite hapopy to write to -R format Verbatim & TY media, but it won’t read those media types when written to by my PC. It will read verbatim +r media when my PC writes it and it will read it’s own brand panasonic +RW whatever they are writtenon.

So on close inspection I’d mixed my +r & _r blanks - when I went back through lots of backups, made before I owned this recorder, the common factor is that the +R single & dual layer copies all play OK in the panasonic DVD recorder, but none of the -R verbatims work ( though they do work in my other stand-alone and work on my PC )

So I guess there’s not a lot wrong with DVDbab after all!

@cybmole, I also do 1st 2nd,3rd,etc… for my full disc burns with Fab,and no probs…Also not sure if you know this but FYI, in common settings >check “delete temp files when done”…in case you’d rather do it automatically upon completion…

I’ve spotted a further subtlely which now links back to the original 2nd generation copy puzzle.

When I categorised which of my backups worked in my Panasonic DVD recorder, and which didn’t, I’d concluded that
A) anthing written with Fab to +R media was ok
B) anything witten with fab to +R media would not read.

that seemed to explain everthing, but then I thought more carefully about all of the copies that i made & tested recently for other family members , and I realised that I hadd made some copies to _R media which had then tested ok. What all the _R format successes had in common was that fab was applying compression i.e. was makign its own temp file to et the size down to4.7Gb before burning it. The failures were all already at less than 4.7Gb so were burned by fab as a sinlge step process from HD.

i.e. when fab worked from an original and had to shrink it to less thn 100% I get a _R output disc which my panasonic could play.

But when fab made a 100% full disc DVD5 copy ( using the same media and burning at the same speed) - either because the original was already a DVD5 or because I’d reinsalled a 1st gen previously shrunk copyto HD , then these were the failures.

So I now think that maybe the success/faliure outcome has something to do with how fab finalises DVD-R media. When it’s has to recompute all of the data in order to compress it, it’s giving a different outcome to when it just has to burn & finalise with no earlier re-compute step. And when it writes +R media, which has no finalise stage, there’s no problem .

All that I can think of is that a compressed image will have completely filled the burned disc, but a 100% full disc copy is likely to have been slightly smaller than the buned disc capacity. Maybe it’s that free (unformated?) space at the end of the disc that confuses my Panasonic player ?

does this info help anyone shed any fresh light on the lissue ?

cybmole glad you got it figured out :clap: