212 or 212D to 212L - possible?

vbimport

#1

OK, I saw reference that there is a S12J model that is the labelflash capable version of the Pioneer DVR-212, and the poster had the link to the full firmware. I also noticed that people were posting links to kernel firmware for the S15J version of the DVR-215.

The Kernel for the 212 drive was posted, allow us to flash 212D drives to 212, but is there a similar kernel and “normal” part of the firmware that has been release for the S12J that would allow crossflashing the 212s to the S12J?

EDIT: This thread should probably be titled “212 or 212D to S12J - possible?”


#2

[QUOTE=FordMan;2032354]OK, I saw reference that there is a S12J model that is the labelflash capable version of the Pioneer DVR-212, and the poster had the link to the full firmware. I also noticed that people were posting links to kernel firmware for the S15J version of the DVR-215.

The Kernel for the 212 drive was posted, allow us to flash 212D drives to 212, but is there a similar kernel and “normal” part of the firmware that has been release for the S12J that would allow crossflashing the 212s to the S12J?

EDIT: This thread should probably be titled “212 or 212D to S12J - possible?”[/QUOTE]

no there is no kernel available from the S12J


#3

[QUOTE=PumaUK;2032374]no there is no kernel available from the S12J[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the confirmation! I haven’t even seen Labelflash media in he U.S., but I was curious if the Buffalo firmware might allow me to write Verbatim DVD+R dual layer media at at 6X CLV.

FordMan


#4

@ FordMan,

Loading DVR-S12J_FW124 (DVR-212L v1.24) Firmware in Media Code Speed Edit tool reveals that Verbatim DVR+9 MKM001 2.4/4/6/8x speeds and Verbatim DVR+9 MKM001 2.4/4/6/8/10x speeds EXACTLY the same speeds as DVR-212D 1.24 and DVR-212 v1.24 Firmwares.

Wasn’t in essence this previously discussed in the “How To: Crossflash 212D to 212” posting thread a week ago?

Firmware Write Strategies are exactly same in same Series Drive numerical firmware numbers. The Write Strategies in DVR-212/DVR-212D/DVR-212L version 1.24 Firmware are exactly the same. That is exactly why the Firmware Version Number is numbered exactly the same.

Regards,
bjkg


#5

[I]Not all on topic.[/I] [QUOTE=FordMan;2032391]… but I was curious if the Buffalo firmware might allow me to write Verbatim DVD+R dual layer media at [B]at 6X CLV[/B]…[/QUOTE]First of all, I’m not familiar with Buffalo firmwares but it should surprise me a lot if they use different write strategies to stock Pio firmware (this simply because write strategy change like Z-CAV to CAV is not that simple to alter, heh).

Anyway, my Pio 115D/115 use Z-CAV at 6x with DVD+R9 discs. :wink:
[And I like it this way because its faster then it would been with 6x CAV.]

.



#6

[QUOTE=pinto2;2032513][I]Not all on topic.[/I] First of all, I’m not familiar with Buffalo firmwares but it should surprise me a lot if they use different write strategies to stock Pio firmware (this simply because write strategy change like [B]Z-CAV[/B] to CAV is not that simple to alter, heh).

Anyway, my Pio 115D/115 use [B]Z-CAV [/B]at 6x with DVD+R9 discs. :wink:
[And I like it this way because its faster then it would been with 6x CAV.]

.[/QUOTE]ahhhh pinto2 your screen shot shows [B]P-CAV
[/B] :flower:


#7

No, there is no CAV in the screenshot at all, as the yellow line is not ‘C’, just Z-CLV.


#8

Thanks for reminding me Bob. :smiley:

When burning DL discs in zones aka at 4, 6, 8x write speed ofcourse I should have used Z-[B]CLV[/B]* term and not Z-CAV.
Thanks for correcting me. :flower:

  • "CLV = [B]C[/B]onstant[B] L[/B]inear [B]V[/B]elosity, meaning drives RPM’s are slowing at time burning.

Ofcourse CAV is completely wrong, DOH :doh: Then the drives speed is the same causing write speed to rise all the way.
:sad: Sorry about any confusion.

[B]Edit. Good to se I’m not alone to disagree with CD/DVD Speed.[/B] Thanks ala42.


#9

[QUOTE=pinto2;2032513][I]Not all on topic.[/I] First of all, I’m not familiar with Buffalo firmwares but it should surprise me a lot if they use different write strategies to stock Pio firmware (this simply because write strategy change like Z-CAV to CAV is not that simple to alter, heh).

Anyway, my Pio 115D/115 use Z-CAV at 6x with DVD+R9 discs. :wink:
[And I like it this way because its faster then it would been with 6x CAV.]

.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, pinto2.

As you’ve recognized in later posts, you meant Z-CLV, so you probably also realized that you should NOT like this, because what you are receiving is SLOWER than a true 6X CLV writing. Not only that, but check your written side - do you notice any “banding” or “ringing,” as others have called it? I could probably learn to live with simple banding, but I receive this strange zone with swirl marks. It’s hard for me to believe that the data is recorded as plainly in that area, or that it will allow it to be read as well when read back from the reflective layer.

It’s good to know that there are other Pioneer drives exhibiting the same behavior, but I have to wonder why Pioneer would remove the 6X CLV that worked very well with the DVR-111 series?! And in my case, the DVR-212 is definitely supposed to have true 6X CLV. See this link for verification:

http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/45/1605/442/DVR-212BK/index.html

where it clearly shows:
“10x Zone CLV (13.85 MB/sec)*2
8x Zone CLV (11.08 MB/sec)*2
6x CLV (8.31 MB/sec)
4x CLV (5.54 MB/sec)
2.4x CLV (3.32 MB/sec)”

So, why does Pioneer LIE about this? I purchased another Pioneer when I needed SATA specifically because it knew the the prior ones were able to burn DL media at 6X CLV, and the specs at this link verified that it still does! Pionner needs to learn something about truth in advertising…

Meanwhile your DVR-115D specs are detailed here:

http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/45/1605/442/DVR-115DBK/index.html

where it says this for DVD+R DL media:
“10X Z-CLV (13.85 Mbytes/sec)*
Note: * This specification describes the maximum speed in one zone.”

So, that is consistent with what is written for 10X for the DVR-212, but they do not explicitly state that 6X CLV should be possible for your drive. I verified that this is the same for the DVR-215 series. Perhaps Pioneer decided to be ambiguous with this to provide wiggle room and the ability to deny 6X capability when disappointed customers call? I imagine they’ll remove the 6X CLV from the DVR-212 specs if they hear from enough people - I plan to call.

So, the question remains why these newer Pioneer drives, apparently both IDE and SATA are not capable of burning DVD+RL DL media at a true 6X CLV, when prior drives like the DVR-111L can? It is definitely possible because it burns single layer media at a true 6X CLV. Is it a different chipset perhaps, and they are trying to lower production costs? This is very disappointing! Unless this gets resolved, I’ll either have to live with 4X CLV writing (not acceptable) or move to another brand that offers true 6X CLV. I know my older NEC ND-4550A does this same 4X CLV to 6X CLV shifting when I choose 6X, so more research will be needed…

It also sounds like the shift points can not be modified or removed in the Pioneer firmware, so FIXING the DVR-212 firmware to do what it is supposed to appears to not be an option. :a


#10

[QUOTE=bjkg;2032471]@ FordMan,

Loading DVR-S12J_FW124 (DVR-212L v1.24) Firmware in Media Code Speed Edit tool reveals that Verbatim DVR+9 MKM001 2.4/4/6/8x speeds and Verbatim DVR+9 MKM001 2.4/4/6/8/10x speeds EXACTLY the same speeds as DVR-212D 1.24 and DVR-212 v1.24 Firmwares.

Wasn’t in essence this previously discussed in the “How To: Crossflash 212D to 212” posting thread a week ago?

Firmware Write Strategies are exactly same in same Series Drive numerical firmware numbers. The Write Strategies in DVR-212/DVR-212D/DVR-212L version 1.24 Firmware are exactly the same. That is exactly why the Firmware Version Number is numbered exactly the same.

Regards,
bjkg[/QUOTE]

Well, no - it’s not exactly the same - I was hoping that the S12J firmware would be similar to Buffalo firmware. According to:
http://forum.rpc1.org/dl_firmware.php?download_id=2365
there is 8.21 buffalo firmware for this drive. Given that the Buffalo firmware is significantly different than stock Pioneer firmware (Labelflash, bitsetting), I wondered if that was why I get a true 6X CLV with this media on my DVR-111D that was crossflashed to DVR-111L with Buffalo firmware 8.29. Otherwise I have to believe that Pioneer has purposely downgraded the capabilities of their recent drives…

Perhaps I should have asked how to flash to the Buffalo firmware 8.21.


#11

@ FordMan,

Buffalo Firmwares are written for Buffalo by Pioneer and Pioneer v1.21 Firmware and Buffalo v8.21 Firmware will have exactly the same Firmware Write Strategies. There might be a difference in the features provided between Pioneer Firmware and Buffalo Firmware but the Write Strategies in the numerical number (1.21/8.21) Firmware are exactly the same. So attempting to swap around different series Firmwares to obtain a different Write Strategy is a fruitless endeavor.

Regards,
bjkg


#12

[QUOTE=FordMan;2032391]Thanks for the confirmation! I haven’t even seen Labelflash media in he U.S., but I was curious if the Buffalo firmware might allow me to write Verbatim DVD+R dual layer media at at 6X CLV.

FordMan[/QUOTE]

No need to crosspost about this matter, and, there is no write strat difference between the various *12 models!!


#13

[QUOTE=FordMan;2032800]
It also sounds like the shift points can not be modified or removed in the Pioneer firmware, [B]so FIXING the DVR-212 firmware to do what it is supposed[/B] to appears to not be an option. :a[/QUOTE]

It already does, there is nothing “to fix”! :cop:


#14

[QUOTE=chef;2033557]It already does, there is nothing “to fix”! :cop:[/QUOTE]

WRONG, check here and you’ll see that it is supposed to burn at 6X CLV. THAT is what it is SUPPOSED TO DO!

http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/45/1605/442/DVR-212/index.html

Seems like Pioneer needs to FIX their firmware to truly allow 6X CLV recording on DVD+R DL, or admit that they made a mistake on their advrtised specs…

Please refrain from your “cop” icons unless you are fully informed. You’re warning me because I’m pointing out that Pioneer’s DVR-212 doesn’t work as avertised? Do you work for Pioneer or something? What vested interest do you have in covering up that Pioneers DVR-212 series doesn’t perform as intended, namely write DVR+R dual layer media at 6X?!

Wow, I’m surprised chef. I normally respect your knowledge and expertise…


#15

[QUOTE=FordMan;2033711]WRONG, check here and you’ll see that it is supposed to burn at 6X CLV. THAT is what it is SUPPOSED TO DO!

http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/45/1605/442/DVR-212/index.html

Seems like Pioneer needs to FIX their firmware to truly allow 6X CLV recording on DVD+R DL, or admit that they made a mistake on their advrtised specs…

Please refrain from your “cop” icons unless you are fully informed. [B]You’re warning me because I’m pointing out that Pioneer’s DVR-212 doesn’t work as avertised? Do you work for Pioneer or something?[/B] What vested interest do you have in covering up that Pioneers DVR-212 series doesn’t perform as intended, namely write DVR+R dual layer media at 6X?!

Wow, I’m surprised chef. I normally respect your knowledge and expertise…[/QUOTE]

I’m surprised you imply weird stuff to me and also crosspost in several threads already now.
Crossposting is not allowed, even for you.

And don’t mention crossposting when you wanna judge on Pioneer too. :bigsmile:


#16

[QUOTE=chef;2033892]I’m surprised you imply weird stuff to me and also crosspost in several threads already now.
Crossposting is not allowed, even for you.

And don’t mention crossposting when you wanna judge on Pioneer too. :bigsmile:[/QUOTE]

OK, good job at sidestepping my question! :bigsmile:

That confirms that you don’t have a good answer to explain why the DVR-212 doesn’t burn dual layer media @ 6X CLV as advertised.

Just because you don’t understand a question doesn’t make it “weird,” or are you referring to my questions regarding if you work for Pioneer? If that’s what you mean, then I apologize. :flower: I was merely looking for a plausible reason for the fact that you were purposely ignoring FACTS (specifications of the drive) when insisting that it is performing as it should.

As for crossposting, I believe are in error. Each thread was opened with a different intention, such as modifying the firmware to burn at a true 6X CLV, the fact that MCC-004 media ID shows up twice in the firmware and the sporadic performance of the DVR-212 on that media, and finally crossflashing the drive to buffalo firmware. Those are all different topics with different intentions. If there is mention of other subjects that occure in other threads, that is incidental and does not change the fact that the thread was opened for a completely different purpose.

I come here looking for help and advice and not trite little responses from people with no helpful info to provide, but thanks anyway…

Since I was sincere that you are well respected and I have benefited very much from your advice in the past, I’m just going to assume you had a bad day or otherwise feeling mischievous. Have a great day! :bow:


#17

[QUOTE=FordMan;2034086]OK, good job at sidestepping my question! :bigsmile:

That confirms that you don’t have a good answer to explain why the DVR-212 doesn’t burn dual layer media @ 6X CLV as advertised.

Just because you don’t understand a question doesn’t make it “weird,” or are you referring to my questions regarding if you work for Pioneer? If that’s what you mean, then I apologize. :flower: I was merely looking for a plausible reason for the fact that you were purposely ignoring FACTS (specifications of the drive) when insisting that it is performing as it should.

As for crossposting, I believe are in error. Each thread was opened with a different intention, such as modifying the firmware to burn at a true 6X CLV, the fact that MCC-004 media ID shows up twice in the firmware and the sporadic performance of the DVR-212 on that media, and finally crossflashing the drive to buffalo firmware. Those are all different topics with different intentions. If there is mention of other subjects that occure in other threads, that is incidental and does not change the fact that the thread was opened for a completely different purpose.

I come here looking for help and advice and not trite little responses from people with no helpful info to provide, but thanks anyway…

Since I was sincere that you are well respected and I have benefited very much from your advice in the past, I’m just going to assume you had a bad day or otherwise feeling mischievous. Have a great day! :bow:[/QUOTE]

Please stop crapping. :a


#18

[QUOTE=chef;2034445]Please stop crapping. :a[/QUOTE]

chef, a truce please.

I noticed you had similar sarcastic responses to other posts by other people at the same you posted your original response in my thread. So, it appeared to me you decided to just stop in and “crap” (if that’s the word you are using meaning to leave no useful information) all over several threads.

In contrast, I was merely pointing out where your logic was flawed, and I allowed for the possibility that you perhaps didn’t review all the information, including specifications, that I provided before you decided to answer. In the other thread you seemed to at least recognize that once I asked you to review the specs again - you suggested I contact Pioneer. I also was defending myself from your allegations about not adhering to forum rules.

In summary, I never intended to escalate this, as I am looking for answers and not a fight. However, I was answering the tone of your messages in similar fashion. I’m not infallible and will admit when I’m wrong, but I’ll also vigorously defend myself when others erroneously insist I’m wrong, as you did in this case.

Again, I am sincere that your posts have been invaluable in the past, and I value your expertise.

FordMan


#19

[I]Not at all related to topic and free to be delete by moderators.
[/I]
At all, guys…, please try to stay on topic. :flower:

[I]chef[/I], I’m sure “our” moderators are able to moderate…* :cool:

Please stop crapping. :a

No need to crosspost about this matter,…
[I][B]* [/B]Note,[/I] chef is moderator at rpc1.org forum, just in case you didn’t know.


#20

Yay, Fordman, sorry. :flower:

You are right about this ZCLV/CLV thing here, but couldnt that be a typo just? I have no idea.
Does that hardware support 6x CLV for DL??

Again, sorry, Fordman.