16x vs 8x

vbimport

#1

With 8x media burning about 2 mins slower than 16x media, I have to wonder… Is 16x worth the extra money?

My basic doubt here is this: Is a 16x media less likely to have errors when burning at 8x than a 8x certified media? And I’m not talking about lowering the burn speed to ensure a safer burn here, I’m talking wether the technology that’s in a 16x media makes it less prone to errors at 8x than a 8x media.

Thoughts?


#2

I agree, when I buy 16X Verbatim media I usually always burn at 12X anyway, 8X is just a few seconds or maybe a minute slower so if you can buy 8X quality media cheaper than 16X quality media, I would go with the 8X.


#3

I don’t personally think so, from some stuff I read while browsing, 16x media has thinner dye thickness compared to 8x media though I have not found any official technical information on this matter. Older, slower rated media is generally better than most of the substandard 16x media on the market these days, IMO of course.


#4

In my experience the only advantage of 16x rated DVD media is it’s ability to be written at higher speeds than 8x media. Since my testing shows that quality is almost always a little better when burning at 6-8x even on 16x media, there’s little reason to buy 16x except that it’s much easier to find these days (at least where I shop).

There are some LiteOn drives which will read 16x rated media faster than 8x rated media, however - e.g. read 16x rated media at 16x but 8x rated media only at 12x.


#5

Little, but existing: I use 16X rated media (@16X and @18X) mainly for short-term multisession backups of audio/video work, where time is definitly a factor (with my occupation can be 5-8 times a day sometimes! :doh: ) and reading compatibility is not important (as long as there is at least one drive reading the disc, which I of course verify ;)).

I still prefer mostly 8X rated media for video and long-term backups. As long as I can find high-grade CMCMAG E01 and MBIPG101R04, I’m good. :cool:
My other favorite 8X media are (of course) YUDEN000T02, and (premium) MCC 02RG20, but they are starting to be extremely difficult to find. Looks like E01 and R04 blanks are going to stay around longer, crossing my fingers.


#6

Well as for the question, does 16x media have less errors when burned @ 8x compared to 8x media I would have to say yes for some media.

MCC02RG20 8x -R verbatim does not like to be written @8x by many writers. One of my friends gave me one also written @8x with an older sony writer. I could tell it was done at 8x and as the speed went higher, the jitter and errors also did.

I have written @8x with MCC004 (16x verbatim +R) with 5 writers and all have produced well working discs at this speed.

I would definitely say 16x Verbatim +R discs are better for compatibility with writers than most if not all 8x discs written @ 8x.


#7

My sentiments EXACTLY!!! I think if 8x media was as widely available as the 16x media and was cheaper, I don’t think anyone here would bother with the 16x media as their main source. My best burns usually come in the 8x-12x range. The Premium 8x Taiyo Yuden discs from rima are still my preference for consistant high quality burns (both at 8x and 12x).


#8

Agreed, especially with my Pioneer 111L.


#9

Nice, 3 mods and a guru :slight_smile:

Just to clarify though… I’m assuming equal quality media, same burner, one 16x certified, the other 8x certified, both being burned at 8x. You guys defend that the 16x one has no technological edge in avoiding errors vs the 8x media, and may actually be worse than the 8x media?

I tended to think that 16x certified media was prepared to be burned at higher speeds, hence performed better in terms of error avoidance than slower, 8x media. But I’ve seen no evidence/test comparisons defending either side, hence my doubts.

PS: Please don’t use Verbatim DVDs as an example. You could burn the data in those things with a piece of glass and a laser pointer and it’d still be readable :wink:


#10

How do you recognise [I]high grade[/I] CMCMAG E01? By getting HP or are there other brands?

Moomin


#11

Yes, HP :wink:
I “recognize” them as “high-grade” because of better burns (less PIF), and above all far better consistency, than with most other E01s I’ve used, which often have dye defects (though real-world usability is scarcely affected even the cheapest E01s).

I also had good luck with TDK branded E01s, but TDK doesn’t offer them consistently (TDK can be so many things these days! :rolleyes: ), though HP does :slight_smile: (until things change).


#12

So I definitly disagree with [B]cd pirate[/B], then… in my experience only Verbatim 16X media has an overall edge over 8X media. Would it be Taiyo Yuden, TDK, MBI, CMC, Ricoh, you name it, 8X rated discs consistently give better burns than 16X rated discs. Maybe a notable exception would be Ritek (P16), but it’s too soon to draw conclusions, and with Ritek, anything can happen. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Another thing to consider is that some 16X/18X burners are optimized to burn many 16X rated media at higher speeds, and the 8X strategies are not well optimized, so of course with these burners when burning @8X you’ll get better burns with 8X rated media in numerous instances.

So personally, with the exception of Verbatim (;)), for @8X burns I recommend to favor 8X rated media. Though with several burners it won’t make such a big difference.


#13

If you can find Infiniti 8x media, these will be CMC MAG E01 or MCC 003 IIRC :slight_smile:


#14

And should probably be excellent, considering that Infiniti has earned a reputation of very high quality and consistency. :iagree: (their MCC discs seem to actually have better consistency than the Verbatim branded ones!!)


#15

Yep - Infiniti are highly recommended :iagree:. I’ve got a 50 pack of 16x DVD-R discs arriving tomorrow, so I’ll post some scans in the media testing area. Don’t know whether I’m receiving TTH02 or MCC 03RG20 though :eek:


#16

Not to forget, some standalones even deny accepting DVD media when they were burned faster than 8x. Had to learn this with a (not that cheap) Panasonic… :frowning:


#17

Both + and - Verbatim alike or would you say there’s a difference?

I see in your sig you prefer MCC004, not 03RG20 :slight_smile: and 8x for the minus format.

Moomin


#18

Which model if I may ask?
This is actually very surprising. Most of these kind of things happen if bad high speed burns and picky players meet each other, but I wonder how the Panasonic detects high-speed burns? :confused:


#19

Good question. My first MCC 03RG20 (in 2005) were fantastic, but after that I’ve had batches which weren’t impressive in terms of burning quality, then I’ve seen again some very good results around, so consistency plays a role here, more than with MCC004 (despite some consistency issues mainly with the MII ones).

But the point is, good MCC 03RG20 burns @8X just as well as MCC 02RG20, is easier to find, and seems to have a wider proper support in most recent burners than 02RG20. :slight_smile:

Now being slightly OT:

Both MIDs have equal reading compatibility in my experience. The reason why I prefer 02RG20 is not burning quality, but their outstanding stability. Both C’t climatic tests and my own degradation survey of my discs, show that these discs can probably live up to the manufacturers claims (and could well outlast [I]me[/I]). They share this perfect stability, in my collection, with TTG02, CMCMAG E01 and probably (a little to soon to be sure) MBIPG101 R04. All my other MIDs show, at least with several individual discs, some kind of slight degradation (in most cases nothing alarming - just noticeable). Yes, even YUDEN000T02 in some instances (but frankly, [I]nothing[/I] to worry about).

Granted, this apparent superior stability of some MIDs could well be due to other factors, like minimal impact on scanning variation from pass to pass (excellent reflectivity? Excellent mechanical properties?), who knows, but with the data I have at hand, they just seem to have something going for them, with this absence of variation in consecutive scans after 6 months to a year. And stability is certainly the main thing I’m after for my own discs… way more than fantastic PIE/PIF scans.


#20

@[B]Francksoy[/B]: You may be pleased to know, that the Hard Coat Protection and the Archival Grade media from Verbatim are both MCC 02RG20. I’m not sure if you already know this, so I just wanted to make sure you know. :slight_smile: