Question: A strange but maybe a true idea? Quality on the same media, different capacity

deksar · 15-02-2009

Dear friends & experts,

Is there any differency between burning a PSX game (Let's say its 540 MB) on a 700 MB, and burning the same game on a 800 MB CD-R media?

Long time ago i have read on somewhere that how after burning, how much more free space left on the CD-R, that much more life and quality because if you burn it with an 800 MB empty CD-R media instead of usual 700 MB CD-R, the cd will have much more free zone so the laser will be much more relax while reading it, it will not force itself too much. Is this true?

Thanks in advance for your precious ideas, suggestions.

Regards..

**Jedi Master Yoda** · 15-02-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by deksar

Dear friends & experts,

Is there any differency between burning a PSX game (Let's say its 540 MB) on a 700 MB, and burning the same game on a 800 MB CD-R media?

Long time ago i have read on somewhere that how after burning, how much more free space left on the CD-R, that much more life and quality because if you burn it with an 800 MB empty CD-R media instead of usual 700 MB CD-R, the cd will have much more free zone so the laser will be much more relax while reading it, it will not force itself too much. Is this true?

Thanks in advance for your precious ideas, suggestions.

Regards..

A 800MB cdr is a 90 minute disc, I don't know if the psx will play them back plus as far as I'm aware no one who makes high quality cdrs actually makes 90m discs. For psx backups just use taiyo yuden cdrs.

The second part of your question I will say is incorrect. 90 minutes cdrs are also out of spec and don't conform to orange book standards.

__________________

Consoles...
PS3, Xbox 360, Wii, Meny older consoles retired but not forgotten.

Drives...
Pioneer DVR-S19LBK, LiteOn iHAS524, Plextor Premium 2(temporarily not in pc), Aopen 1648/AAP Pro(in pvr), Samsung SH-D162C Kreons 0.81 (In External Case).

Retired But Still Work...
Lite-On SOHR 5239V, Pioneer DVR-111D, Plextor PX-W2410A , Pioneer A05.

PC Spec...
MSI 770T-C45, AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition, Kingston HyperX Genesis Grey 8GB , Powercolor ATI HD 5850, Corsair TX 650W, Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic, Seagate 120GB SATA (x2), Seagate 320GB SATA + WD Caviar Green 2TB SATA.

External storage...
Seagate 250GB, Seagate 500GB And A Buffalo 2TB.

Internet.....
Be Unlimited ... up to 24 meg

SeanW · 15-02-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jedi Master Yoda

A 800MB cdr is a 90 minute disc, I don't know if the psx will play them back plus as far as I'm aware no one who makes high quality cdrs actually makes 90m discs. For psx backups just use taiyo yuden cdrs.

The second part of your question I will say is incorrect. 90 minutes cdrs are also out of spec and don't conform to orange book standards.

+1. Even if there were advantages to using 90 min CDs, the best CD makers, namely Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim (AZO only) only manufacture regular 80 minute CDs.

A Playstation backup, particularly if you want to keep it for a long time, should be put on a 700MB/80 Minute Taiyo Yuden CD-R.

__________________
Favourite CD MIDs: Tayio Yuden

Prodisc (R.I.P)

Least favourite CD MIDs: CMC MAG

Favourite DVDs: All 8x Taiyo Yuden, +R

-R and -R DL.
Verbatim 16x DVD+R MCC 004, 8x-R 8x MCC 02RG20 (Made In Taiwan) & 2.4x +R DL MKM 001 (Made in Singapore)
Honourable mention: MJC 003, CMC MAG E01
Avoiding: "Philips" branded DVDRs, all MBI, all TDK and Ritek G04/G05.

My DVD RW drives:
LG GGW-H20L Blu Ray
(NEC) Optiarc 7203A
"BenQ DW1640" (crossflash) Jitter and PO reporting FTW!
Retired: Samsung SH-W163A, NEC ND "4551"A & Optiarc 7191S.

Now with their own Japanese website: Premium quality Japanese media!

deksar · 15-02-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanW

A Playstation backup, particularly if you want to keep it for a long time, should be put on a 700MB/80 Minute Taiyo Yuden CD-R.

Actually the problem is not how to keep the cd for a long time, the problem is how to keep the LASER for a long time, that's why i am looking for the best solution for that because i do not use original cds and i hope backup, copy cds are not damaging the laser.

*Womi* · 15-02-2009

On a 90/99min CD-R, the data density is much higher compared to 74/80min CD-Rs.

So yes, there is more space left on the disc after burning the same data.

Theoretical, that higher data density is more hard to read for the laser.
But I dont think this has any affect to the durability of the laser.

Thats also their disadvantage for long term storage. A single scratch can cause more data to be unreadable.

Scan-C · 15-02-2009

My PSX is about 12 years old and has only seen a handful of original discs (keeping them safe and just using the backups) but the laser is still doing fine due to quality media like Taiyo Yuden or Verbatim. Just use those and you'll be fine.

deksar · 15-02-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Womi

Thats also their disadvantage for long term storage. A single scratch can cause more data to be unreadable.

Womi:
But imagine a CD-R media with 800 MB capacity but only a 500 MB area got burned (used). Isn't this an advantage? So wouldn't it be like, a possible single scratch would cause LESS data to be unreadable (because not all the area is full of datas) ?

Scan-C:
I bought a box of Verbatim 700 MB CD-R Extra Protection,
But when i am trying to test it with a CDR Media Code Identifier tool, It shows:
Disc Manufacturer: CMC Magnetics Corp.
Are they fake?

Thanks a lot!

*cd pirate* · 15-02-2009

No the data is closer together, the same scratch on a 800MB CD-R would cause more corrupt data than it would on a 650MB CD-R.

It's also harder to read an 800MB CD-R.

If you want best compatibility. Try finding some 650MB discs. I have some 650MB TY CD-R. The PSX does not ever seem to complain about those.

__________________
Best DVD media:

Verbatim MCC002 4x DVD+R
Verbatim MCC02RG20 8x DVD-R
DATASTREAM BRANDED CMC MAG E01 8x DVD+R
Verbatim MCC04 & MCC03RG20 16x DVD +-R

Ritek G05 media =

My writers: BenQ 1620 (thanks to terminalvelocd!), BenQ DW1800 x 2, LG 4167B, LG H22N, Pioneer 106D, Pioneer 109, Pioneer 111L.

*evo69* · 15-02-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by deksar

Womi:
But imagine a CD-R media with 800 MB capacity but only a 500 MB area got burned (used). Isn't this an advantage? So wouldn't it be like, a possible single scratch would cause LESS data to be unreadable (because not all the area is full of datas) ?

The 500MB of data burned will not take the same space visually as that of 800MB - check the burn marks on a half-full CD burn and a full burn and you'll see what I mean. Yes, there would be less data that will be in jeopardy if the unburned area is scratched, but if the burned area is scratched you are guaranteed more data to be "damaged" or be unreadable due to the higher density of the disc.

Just get some quality 650MB/700MB discs as the veterans have suggested and you won't have any problems with it. Discs with protection treatments are also good for rough handling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deksar

I bought a box of Verbatim 700 MB CD-R Extra Protection,
But when i am trying to test it with a CDR Media Code Identifier tool, It shows:
Disc Manufacturer: CMC Magnetics Corp.
Are they fake?!

Nope, probably not since Verbatim sometimes uses CMC MID discs with their recent CDs (as well as Daxon). The best Extra Protection Verbatim CDs in my opinion are those manufactured by Taiyo Yuden and sold as "Verbatim Pastel Discs Extra Protection 52x". I just love those discs.

__________________
I'm hooked on discs and drives.
In use: Optiarc AD-7200S (1.09bt) • Samsung SH-S203N (SB02) • LG GSA-H62N (CL01) • LiteOn iHAS220 (8LC2) • Sony DRX-810UL <-> BenQ EW164B (BEFB) • 3x BenQ DW1640 (BSLB/BSRB/BEFB) • 2x LiteOn LTR-52327S (QS0E/QS5A) • Plextor PX-W2410A (1.04) • Plextor PX-716UF (1.11) • Plextor Premium-U (1.06)
I feed my Canon MP610 with MCC 02RG20 & MCC 03RG20

Still wanting a: SATA Sanyo Plextor DVD±RW, Yamaha CRW-F1, well-performing USB/FW 5.25" Enclosures (like MaPower H51)
Interested but not dying to get a: Optiarc AD-7240S, Plextor Premium 2, BenQ DW1650/1655, Pioneer DVR-217, BD-RE drive

*koba* · 15-02-2009

The only advantage youll get using a 700MB over a 650MB CD for 500MB of Data is that the unburned area is bigger on the 700MB and that this may protect your data from scratches on the edge made by handling the discs but that is all.
Theoretically a 700MB disc stresses the laser more because each bit of data is written closer to each other than on a 650MB disc.

__________________
Utility for Pioneer 112 users to use newest A12J by Pionner or 112L by Buffalo firmware after crossflashing to A12J or 112L with TDB firmware.
Note: All flashers are to be used in Windows by double clicking the exe file. If this should not work try in safe mode.
Important Warning: Only use this if you know what you are doing. Flashing a drive with this package will void the Warranty. Please use this at your own risk!
I updated the package and it contains 8.21 from Buffalo and 1.21 firmware from Pioneer.
http://www.megaupload.com/jp/?d=DB70XXWZ
http://rapidshare.com/files/51249663..._112L.rar.html

**Jedi Master Yoda** · 15-02-2009

Problem with 650MB cdrs is that outside of japan they are not really sold unless you can find old stock on places like ebay. Deksar like other's have said just use 700MB TY cdrs and like they said due to the data being closer together an 800MB cdr this will put more stress on the laser than a 700MB cdr, so if its the stress on the laser which is your main concern then stick to 700MB cdrs.

__________________

Consoles...
PS3, Xbox 360, Wii, Meny older consoles retired but not forgotten.

Drives...
Pioneer DVR-S19LBK, LiteOn iHAS524, Plextor Premium 2(temporarily not in pc), Aopen 1648/AAP Pro(in pvr), Samsung SH-D162C Kreons 0.81 (In External Case).

Retired But Still Work...
Lite-On SOHR 5239V, Pioneer DVR-111D, Plextor PX-W2410A , Pioneer A05.

PC Spec...
MSI 770T-C45, AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition, Kingston HyperX Genesis Grey 8GB , Powercolor ATI HD 5850, Corsair TX 650W, Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic, Seagate 120GB SATA (x2), Seagate 320GB SATA + WD Caviar Green 2TB SATA.

External storage...
Seagate 250GB, Seagate 500GB And A Buffalo 2TB.

Internet.....
Be Unlimited ... up to 24 meg

SeanW · 16-02-2009

All of the above is true, in summary:
1) An 800MB CD is not "bigger" than a 700 or 650, rather it just packs data more tightly into the existing media.
2) 800MB CDs are out of Rainbow Book specifications.
3) The best quality medias, Taiyo Yuden and some Verbatims, only come in 700MB - and in rare cases - 650MB.

If, in line with what was said above, you want some high quality CDs with the lowest data-density (i.e. 650MB discs) you might have a look at these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Thats-Taiyo-Yude...742.m153.l1262

Shipping is a biatch, but you might find these useful for the PSX games that you play the most.

__________________
Favourite CD MIDs: Tayio Yuden

Prodisc (R.I.P)

Least favourite CD MIDs: CMC MAG

Favourite DVDs: All 8x Taiyo Yuden, +R

-R and -R DL.
Verbatim 16x DVD+R MCC 004, 8x-R 8x MCC 02RG20 (Made In Taiwan) & 2.4x +R DL MKM 001 (Made in Singapore)
Honourable mention: MJC 003, CMC MAG E01
Avoiding: "Philips" branded DVDRs, all MBI, all TDK and Ritek G04/G05.

My DVD RW drives:
LG GGW-H20L Blu Ray
(NEC) Optiarc 7203A
"BenQ DW1640" (crossflash) Jitter and PO reporting FTW!
Retired: Samsung SH-W163A, NEC ND "4551"A & Optiarc 7191S.

Now with their own Japanese website: Premium quality Japanese media!

*DrageMester* · 16-02-2009

As others have said, a 700 MB CD-R is easier to read than a 800 MB CD-R (which breaks the Orange Book specs).

A 650 MB CD-R might be even easier to read on an ancient CD player but I don't think there's a difference with any modern drive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jedi Master Yoda

... I'm aware no one who makes high quality cdrs actually makes 90m discs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanW

Even if there were advantages to using 90 min CDs, the best CD makers, namely Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim (AZO only) only manufacture regular 80 minute CDs.

Verbatim actually has 90 min 800 MB CD-R High Capacity media but it doesn't use MCC technology. The cakebox I have is made by Moser Baer with a Moser Baer ATIP - I'm not sure if there are other outsourced manufacturers for the Verbatim High Capacity CD-R media.

__________________
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

deksar · 17-02-2009

Dear experts, Jedi Master Yoda, SeanW, Womi, Scan-C, cd pirate, evo69, koba, DrageMester, thanks a lot for your very useful answers, replies..

As i understand, using a 650 MB Taiyo Yuden CD-R media would be THE BEST solution to protect my PsOne's laser and would help to keep it much more in the life!

1- Actually I didn't get what do you mean by the "...breaks the Orange Book specs)." The Orange Book specs, standards?

2- Is there any quality difference between a Verbatim Pastel Discs "Extra Protection" CD-R manufactured by Taiyo Yuden, and a Taiyo Yuden CD-R media? Actually I have never seen a TY CD-R before but just heard.. Are they Silver plated that looks like an original CD?

3- And lastly,
Aren't all my Verbatim Extra Protection made by CMC. at least 'acceptable quality' (Again, for the laser) to use for PSX game backup needs?

Thanks again to everybody for all the answers..

*DrageMester* · 17-02-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by deksar

1- Actually I didn't get what do you mean by the "...breaks the Orange Book specs)." The Orange Book specs, standards?

It means that the Orange Book specifications, which define parameters for e.g. CD-R media, are not followed for the 90 min 800 MB discs. In a sense, such discs are not really CD-R media, since they don't follow the specifications. Some drives may not be able to read discs that don't follow the Orange Book specifications.

Quote:

2- Is there any quality difference between a Verbatim Pastel Discs "Extra Protection" CD-R manufactured by Taiyo Yuden, and a Taiyo Yuden CD-R media?

The only difference is in the top layer (label side) which is stronger for the "Pastel Extra Protection" media than for most other CD-R media, including most Taiyo Yuden CD-R.

This makes the Verbatim Pastel Extra Protection CD-R a bit more resistant to damage.

Quote:

Actually I have never seen a TY CD-R before but just heard.. Are they Silver plated that looks like an original CD?

They come in several versions with different top layers, e.g. shiny silver, white inkjet printable, etc.

__________________
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

deksar · 24-02-2009

Thanks a lot!
I've heard that "Tests on CD-Freaks and other places, have proven that lower speeds actually increase PI/PO errors." Is this correct?
I was thinking burning PSX games at a low speed was better. (even necessary?!) How come a PSX CD-ROM drive (which has only 2x read speed i guess) would read a CD-R media got burned by 52x speed?

Thanks.

*DrageMester* · 24-02-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by deksar

I've heard that "Tests on CD-Freaks and other places, have proven that lower speeds actually increase PI/PO errors." Is this correct?

It can be true. It's not always true.

Burn quality tends to be best at medium burn speeds, not at the slowest or fastest burn speeds.

Try looking in this thread:

Read first: Did you know: Slow write speeds + modern drives + modern media = no good

__________________
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

Question: A strange but maybe a true idea? Quality on the same media, different capacity

Similar Threads

Search this Thread

People who found this also searched for