CD-DVD Speed Disc Quality (PI/PIF) Test

Disc Testing Methods and Software Discuss, CD-DVD Speed Disc Quality (PI/PIF) Test at Blank Media forum; Quote:

Old Posted: 11-03-2007
MediumRare's Avatar
MediumRare (CD Freaks Senior Member)
Posts: 316
  • Find More Posts by MediumRare
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrageMester
I'm not sure which paper muchin linked to, but I think the followng paper explains Jitter and TA (Timing Analysis) quite well, even though it's a bit old and is about CD media.

Jitter what it is and how to measure it
Yes, that's the paper I recall. I'm not into the details of the circuits that much, but it helps a lot in understanding the other terms.

@cd pirate: as the bionic toaster ( ) mentioned, those are excellent results!

G
default_avatar
Today (MyCE Staff)
Posts: 15,596
Old Posted: 12-03-2007
uSerKey's Avatar
uSerKey (MyCE Resident)
Posts: 510
  • Find More Posts by uSerKey
First, Thanks Erik for the new version of CD-DVD Speed.
From a few of the initial posts it seems it has been improved with Lite-On drives jitter testing, which is something I am diddling with at present.

Quote Dragemester,
Quote:
There have no discussion about a "standard" scanning speed for TA Jitter scans, but since they take the same time regardless of scanning speed (dominated by the spin-up time) I propose using 1x. The jitter will vary if you change the scanning speed with a general tendency to increase with increased scanning speed.
I am far less experienced than Dragemester in disc testing, but FWIW I agree with Dragemester on the above.
__________________
Useful software with my burner:
DVDFab+++++DVDShrink+++++ImgBurn+++++CD-DVD Speed
Old Posted: 12-03-2007
uSerKey's Avatar
uSerKey (MyCE Resident)
Posts: 510
  • Find More Posts by uSerKey
What follows is pure speculation on my part and intended to provide more fuel for the fire in the discussion on jitter testing.

A. Displayed jitter test graphs are a complex integration of the Disc's attributes which produce jitter and the Scanning Drive's attributes which interfere with the jitter testing--the data resulting from this integration is then processed and displayed by the software. It is the scanning drive's contribution to the jitter test result which is difficult to sort out.

B. In the case of jitter testing, scanning speed has a direct impact on the resulting jitter values reported. Erik Deppe posted as such in the case of Lite-On drives.

C. Higher speed jitter scanning may increase the Scanning Drive's "weight" in the jitter test result and decrease the disc's attributes "weight" in the test result.

IMO much more testing is needed to confirm C. And I would not be suprised if it is not always true.

However, if and when statement C is true, this would easily explain the frequent disappearance of the vertical drops shown in 1X and 2X DVDScan jitter graphs when re-scanned at 4X. The higher 4X scanning speed has resulted in the scanning drive's interference in the final result, "overshadowing" the disc's jitter attributes in the displayed graph.

As inconvenient as 1X and 2X scanning may be, in the case of jitter testing it may be essential in order for the test result to better reflect the disc's jitter characteristics and minimize the scanning drive's contribution to the test result.
__________________
Useful software with my burner:
DVDFab+++++DVDShrink+++++ImgBurn+++++CD-DVD Speed
Old Posted: 17-03-2007
default_avatar
VAA-777 (New on Forum)
Posts: 16
  • Find More Posts by VAA-777
Hello, sirs.
I present your attention
comparative test of disk
Sony AccuCore (S11) DVD+RW x1-4
on BenQ 1650 (OEM DVD 880I - ATAPI DVD DW 8X16X8X16) in an interval 1ECC
and LiteOn LH 20A1H in Nero CD-DVD Speed 4.7.5.0

PIF and PIE profiles BenQ 1650 in an interval 1ECC and LiteOn LH 20A1H are almost identical.

I have some questions:
1. an index of quality sсore at test in BenQ DW1655 in an interval 1ECC – probably not adaptedit ( overestimated )

2. At work of program SDSpeed 4.7.5.0 in a position
Disc quality with BenQ 1650 have graphic bug - (the sum) total disappears

Please take a look at the attached scans.

Please, comment: Whether it is possible to trust results of scanning
BenQ DW1655 drives in an interval 1ECC?

Thank.
Old Posted: 17-03-2007
default_avatar
VAA-777 (New on Forum)
Posts: 16
  • Find More Posts by VAA-777
Please take a look at the attached scans
Attached Images
File Type: png на BenQ 1ECC 4.7.5.0 + vkladka+.png (58.5 KB, 394 views)
File Type: png на BenQ 1ECC 4.7.5.0++.png (74.0 KB, 392 views)
File Type: png на LiteOn 20A1H +.png (73.4 KB, 388 views)
Old Posted: 17-03-2007
default_avatar
VAA-777 (New on Forum)
Posts: 16
  • Find More Posts by VAA-777
For comparison: this disk on BenQ 1650 in an interval 8ECC
Attached Images
File Type: png на BenQ 8ECC 4.7.0.0.png (73.6 KB, 377 views)
Old Posted: 17-03-2007
default_avatar
VAA-777 (New on Forum)
Posts: 16
  • Find More Posts by VAA-777
Question for Erik Deppe:

Tell please, in what interval of scanning
(1ECC or 8ECC) for BenQ DW 1650 results more
correct

Thank
Old Posted: 17-03-2007
default_avatar
ValHall64 (CD Freaks Junior Member)
Posts: 89
  • Find More Posts by ValHall64
BenQ burners only support 8ECC...
Old Posted: 17-03-2007
default_avatar
VAA-777 (New on Forum)
Posts: 16
  • Find More Posts by VAA-777
comparative test of disk
Verbatim ( MCC-004) +R16x (43550) Taiwan
on BenQ 1650 (OEM DVD 880I in an interval 1ECC
and LiteOn LH 20A1H in Nero CD-DVD Speed 4.7.5.0

Recording is executed on neutral LG H42L-(SL00)

Please take a look at the attached scans
Attached Images
File Type: png LG-H42L_MCC_004.png (38.9 KB, 351 views)
File Type: png LG on_LH-20A1H_MCC_004 end.png (38.5 KB, 352 views)
File Type: png 2.LG on_BenQ 1ECC_MCC_004 test.png (74.4 KB, 356 views)
File Type: png 1.interval 1-8 ECC BenQ1650.png (57.7 KB, 352 views)
Old Posted: 18-03-2007
talos_2002's Avatar
talos_2002 (MyCE Senior Member)
Posts: 291
  • Find More Posts by talos_2002
4.7.0.2 would report that the scan was performed with 8 ECC.
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=208721
But now that 4.7.5.0 reports 1.01 ECC, I start believing.

EDIT: And the number of samples is close to 130k!
Thank you Pinto for the info at the old post.

Edit2: Thank you Mr Deppe! It's nice to know that 1650/5 can perform 1ECC scans. I like my drive even more as time pasts.
Old Posted: 18-03-2007
DrageMester's Avatar
DrageMester (Retired Moderator)
Posts: 17,611
  • Find More Posts by DrageMester
Quote:
Originally Posted by talos_2002
But now that 4.7.5.0 reports 1.01 ECC, I start believing.

EDIT: And the number of samples is close to 130k!
Thank you Pinto for the info at the old post.

Edit2: Thank you Mr Deppe! It's nice to know that 1650/5 can perform 1ECC scans. I like my drive even more as time pasts.
Unfortunately, the Quality Score is still calculated as if the scan had been performed as PIF per 8 ECC instead of per 1 ECC.
Old Posted: 18-03-2007
talos_2002's Avatar
talos_2002 (MyCE Senior Member)
Posts: 291
  • Find More Posts by talos_2002
Well, maybe Mr Deppe can fix it in a future version.
Quality Score isn't something that someone should take into much account, is it? I don't give any attention to it, am I doing wrong?

Edit: Would you suggest using 7.4.5.0 and 1 ECC for scanning from now on?
Old Posted: 18-03-2007
DrageMester's Avatar
DrageMester (Retired Moderator)
Posts: 17,611
  • Find More Posts by DrageMester
Quote:
Originally Posted by talos_2002
Well, maybe Mr Deppe can fix it in a future version.
Let's hope so.

Quote:
Quality Score isn't something that someone should take into much account, is it? I don't give any attention to it, am I doing wrong?
I ignore the Quality Score completely, because I think the quality of a disc is far more complicated than the maximum PIF value and indeed more complicated that can be expressed as a one-dimensional value.

Quote:
Edit: Would you suggest using 7.4.5.0 and 1 ECC for scanning from now on?
I use CDSpeed 4.7.5.0 for scanning, except for Transfer Rate Tests on some drives conected by USB where earlier versions seem to be be better able to reach 16x without being limited by the burst rate. I have only now discovered the 1 ECC scanning with BenQ drives, so I haven't formed an opinion yet. If it's true 1 ECC scanning, and not some form of approximate conversion, then I would much prefer to use 1 ECC scanning.
__________________
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Old Posted: 18-03-2007
default_avatar
VAA-777 (New on Forum)
Posts: 16
  • Find More Posts by VAA-777
One more comparative test of disk
Verbatim DVD – RW 2,4-4х (МСС 01RW4x)

on BenQ 1650 (OEM DVD 880I in an interval 1ECC, 8ECC
and LiteOn LH 20A1H in Nero CD-DVD Speed 4.7.5.0

Recording is executed on neutral LG H42L-(SL00)
Please take a look at the attached scans

Supervision on results of all tests lead on this theme:
in Disc Quality on BenQ 1650 in 1ЕСС in the basic component of the test – PIF turns out a practical clone of schedule LiteOn LH-20A1H (LL07)
Quantitatively: Pif average and Pif max – are practically identical
Pif total differ insignificantly
Jitter – differs insignificantly

Index Quality score not updated.
Attached Images
File Type: png BENQ1650--8ECC.png (74.4 KB, 323 views)
File Type: png BENQ1650__1ECC+vkl.png (59.7 KB, 323 views)
File Type: png BENQ1650__1ECC.png (73.6 KB, 321 views)
File Type: png LH-20A1H(LL07_)_MCC_01RW4X__5.png (72.6 KB, 320 views)
Old Posted: 18-03-2007
kg_evilboy's Avatar
kg_evilboy (CD Freaks Boy Toy)
Posts: 5,360
  • Find More Posts by kg_evilboy
Wow. Amazing news.
ErikDeppe continues to make the BenQs even more valuable long after they've been discontinued (AQS, and now 1ECC scanning)... a gift that keeps on giving

Maybe I should REALLY get a BenQ 1650/55, 1640 or 1625 now (some shops here still have those or the Philips equivalents)...?
__________________
My collection:
2x Plextor PX-716A 1.09, BenQ DW1655 BCDB, Samsung TS-L632H SC04, Samsung TS-L632B TS01, Lite-On LTR-16101B TS0W, LG GCE-8527B 1.01
LG GSA-H10N @ H12N UJ12 (broken tray), BenQ DW1650 BCIC (sold), Lite-On SHW-16H5S @ 1635S YS0Z (caught fire)
Canon Pixma iP4300

For details on my other (sneaker) collection, please PM me!
(You must be into sneakers too to get your info )

Sneaker Fun Fact: When Circa was developing a pro shoe for Chad Muska, he requested a stash pocket to run the entire length of the tongue. When designers asked The Muska if he really needed that much stash room, he replied, “Yo, I gots a lotta weed to fit in there, man!”

Code: T6 C1 L2(s)v h d++ a- w++ c+ y+ f+ t+ k s m1- q-
Old Posted: 18-03-2007
DrageMester's Avatar
DrageMester (Retired Moderator)
Posts: 17,611
  • Find More Posts by DrageMester
Quote:
Originally Posted by talos_2002
Edit2: Thank you Mr Deppe! It's nice to know that 1650/5 can perform 1ECC scans. I like my drive even more as time pasts.
My BenQ DW1655 (BCIB) performs scans at 8 ECC even if I select 1 ECC scanning interval.

Has anyone managed to get 1 ECC scanning working with DW1655 drives, or is this for some reason limited to DW1650 drives?
Old Posted: 18-03-2007
default_avatar
GeoN (CD Freaks Member)
Posts: 210
  • Find More Posts by GeoN
Benq 1640 (BSRB) & Cd-DVD Speed 4.7.5.0 - 1ECC setting is available, but 1ECC works really only for 4x CAV speed:
8x CAV - ECC interval report in statistic is 8ECC,
6x CLV - 8ECC,
6x CAV - 8ECC,
4x CLV - 8ЕСС,
4x CAV - 1ЕСС.

For 4x CAV real ECC interval is 1ECC independently of ECC setting (1 or 8).
Quality score calculates always for 8ECC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrageMester
If it's true 1 ECC scanning, and not some form of approximate conversion...
It's the main question. Speed dependence may mean both chipset feature or soft implementation.
__________________
LG GSA-H10N, Benq 1640A, Sony 121A, Plextor 755A, Plextor 712A, LG GSA-4120@4160, Plextor Premium.

Last edited by GeoN; 18-03-2007 at 21:43.
Old Posted: 18-03-2007
DrageMester's Avatar
DrageMester (Retired Moderator)
Posts: 17,611
  • Find More Posts by DrageMester
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoN
Benq 1640 (BSRB) & Cd-DVD Speed 4.7.5.0 - 1ECC setting is available, but 1ECC works really only for 4x CAV speed:
8x CAV - ECC interval report in statistic is 8ECC,
6x CLV - 8ECC,
6x CAV - 8ECC,
4x CLV - 8ЕСС,
4x CAV - 1ЕСС.

For 4x CAV real ECC interval is 1ECC independently of ECC setting (1 or 8).
Quality score calculates always for 8ECC.


It's the main question. Speed dependence may mean both chipset feature or soft implementation.
I've tried the 1 ECC setting in CDSpeed 4.7.5.0 and all possible scanning speeds with my BenQ DW1655 BCIB and I always get an 8 ECC scan instead.
Old Posted: 19-03-2007
kg_evilboy's Avatar
kg_evilboy (CD Freaks Boy Toy)
Posts: 5,360
  • Find More Posts by kg_evilboy
Ohh... what about an 8ECC (emulation?) for LiteOn? KProbe can do this
Just kidding
__________________
My collection:
2x Plextor PX-716A 1.09, BenQ DW1655 BCDB, Samsung TS-L632H SC04, Samsung TS-L632B TS01, Lite-On LTR-16101B TS0W, LG GCE-8527B 1.01
LG GSA-H10N @ H12N UJ12 (broken tray), BenQ DW1650 BCIC (sold), Lite-On SHW-16H5S @ 1635S YS0Z (caught fire)
Canon Pixma iP4300

For details on my other (sneaker) collection, please PM me!
(You must be into sneakers too to get your info )

Sneaker Fun Fact: When Circa was developing a pro shoe for Chad Muska, he requested a stash pocket to run the entire length of the tongue. When designers asked The Muska if he really needed that much stash room, he replied, “Yo, I gots a lotta weed to fit in there, man!”

Code: T6 C1 L2(s)v h d++ a- w++ c+ y+ f+ t+ k s m1- q-
Old Posted: 19-03-2007
MediumRare's Avatar
MediumRare (CD Freaks Senior Member)
Posts: 316
  • Find More Posts by MediumRare
After I saw this earlier today, I tried doing a scan @1 ECC with my Philips DVDR 1660K @ BenQ 1650/BCIC (8x speed).

As far as I can tell, it ignores this setting and does the scan with 8 ECC. The average scanning interval is 8.01 ECC (vs. 8.02 ECC).

Count patterns look similar and the PIF maxima are too high for 1 ECC.

[edit]just did a partial scan @4x CAV and it's 8 ECC as well.

G
Old Posted: 19-03-2007
ErikDeppe's Avatar
ErikDeppe (Opti Drive Control Author)
Posts: 373
  • Find More Posts by ErikDeppe
I've checked this and it seems that this may be a firmware bug/feature.
The scanning interval settings are not supposed to work with the high performance scanning function of BenQ drives but only with the low performance scanning function (ie. the slow scans with no PIFs or POFs).
Changing the scanning interval setting does not affect the high performance scanning. It's the command which is sent to query the drive's features which somehow triggers 1 ECC scanning at 4X CAV.

To enable 1 ECC scanning simply press the Advanced button (no need to change anything) and close the window.

So 1 ECC scanning with BenQ drives is real, Nero CD-DVD Speed doesn't convert 8 ECC samples to 1 ECC samples (which would not be very accurate).
The nice thing about 1 ECC scanning with BenQ drives is that you will get about 20000 samples more than with LiteOn drives
__________________
Download Opti Drive Control:
http://www.cdspeed2000.com
http://www.optidrivecontrol.com
Old Posted: 19-03-2007
Bob's Avatar
Bob (I donated to the Tsunami fund and all I got was this lousy title)
Posts: 17,682
  • Find More Posts by Bob Bob is online now
Thanks for the info Erik
__________________
"You've got a hole in your soul if you don't dig the Blues" .....My Not So New Anymore *Build* is Finished.

Click HERE to join CDFreaks.com

Keith Richards ~ "If You Want The Last Laugh........Join The Rolling Stones"
Old Posted: 19-03-2007
DrageMester's Avatar
DrageMester (Retired Moderator)
Posts: 17,611
  • Find More Posts by DrageMester
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikDeppe
It's the command which is sent to query the drive's features which somehow triggers 1 ECC scanning at 4X CAV.

To enable 1 ECC scanning simply press the Advanced button (no need to change anything) and close the window.

So 1 ECC scanning with BenQ drives is real, Nero CD-DVD Speed doesn't convert 8 ECC samples to 1 ECC samples (which would not be very accurate).
The nice thing about 1 ECC scanning with BenQ drives is that you will get about 20000 samples more than with LiteOn drives
OK, I've checked this with my BenQ DW1655 BCIB and I can get 1 ECC scanning at 4x CAV only, not at any of the lower or higher speeds. It's triggered as you say by clicking on the Advanced button, but the Scanning Interval is ignored - it will scan at 1 ECC even if Scanning Interval is set to 8 ECC.

The drive reverts back to 8 ECC scanning if any of the other scanning speeds is used, even if you subsequently perform a 4x CAV scan without first clicking on the Advanced button.

I'm not sure how useful this is, but it sure is confusing.
Old Posted: 19-03-2007
default_avatar
scoobiedoobie (CDFreaks Resident)
Posts: 3,163
  • Find More Posts by scoobiedoobie
I ran into this awhile ago if I remember correctly, but I just assumed it was scaling/estimating 8 ECC down to 1 ECC. Glad to hear that it's not just scaling it, though I don't personally think I'll have a lot of use for it. Maybe on occasion with unique or problematic discs, and comparing with other 1 ECC scans (having more speeds other than 4x CAV would help though).
Old Posted: 19-03-2007
Bob's Avatar
Bob (I donated to the Tsunami fund and all I got was this lousy title)
Posts: 17,682
  • Find More Posts by Bob Bob is online now
Here's same disc burned with LG H42N at 8X:
1. Scanned at 1 ECC @4X
2. Scanned at 8 ECC @8X
__________________
"You've got a hole in your soul if you don't dig the Blues" .....My Not So New Anymore *Build* is Finished.

Click HERE to join CDFreaks.com

Keith Richards ~ "If You Want The Last Laugh........Join The Rolling Stones"

Last edited by Bob; 25-10-2007 at 22:20.
There's more to MyCE.com

Listen up, we've got more. Product information on 107,830 products. Our experts have written 540 articles. We've gathered 16,487 news items for you to always keep updated.

Hello guest,
default
To benefit from all extra features you need to log in or sign up.

Posting Rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

People who found this also searched for

  • burned with opti drive
  • cd quality dvd quality windows vista
  • cd speed pif pie
  • dc jitter dvd mbi
  • disc quality
  • disc quality invalid field in cdb
  • disc quality opti drive control gh22np20
  • disc quality opti drive control gh22np20 drive does not support this function
  • disc quality test accuracy
  • disc quality test cats
  • disc quality test datarius
  • disc quality test inaccurate
  • disk quality
  • disk quality registry hack samsung
  • drive does not support that function.
  • dvd disc test
  • dvd speed 4.7.7.17
  • error initializing test nero speed test
  • faulting module wnaspi32.dll scanner
  • locker.dll nero
  • nero cd dvd speed how to check the disc quality
  • nero cd dvd speed patch lg drives quality check
  • nero cd-dvd speed
  • nero cd-dvd speed disc quality what should the results look like
  • no seek complete cdspeed
  • opti drive control po failures
  • pi e pif
  • pi failure
  • pi failures
  • pi failures c2 po
All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:28.
Top