CD-DVD Speed Disc Quality (PI/PIF) Test

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Disc Testing Methods and Software Discuss, CD-DVD Speed Disc Quality (PI/PIF) Test at Blank Media forum; (Apologies for replying to this somewhat unrelated thread. I'm having technical problems posting New Threads onto CD Freaks -- see http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread....19#post1164523 . This thread was the topically-closest I could find on which to post this message) Some preliminary info: Drives being used: - Sony DRU-530A (burner) - Lite-On LTC-48161H (ROM

KHashmi316 (New on Forum): Posts: 18; Posted: 05-11-2005

#951

(Apologies for replying to this somewhat unrelated thread. I'm having technical problems posting New Threads onto CD Freaks -- see http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread....19#post1164523 . This thread was the topically-closest I could find on which to post this message)

Some preliminary info:

Drives being used:
- Sony DRU-530A (burner)
- Lite-On LTC-48161H (ROM only)

Disc: TDK DVD-R (made by CMC)

Content on disc: Nero DVD-Speed "Create Data Disc"

Burned on: Sony DRU-530A

Test tool: Nero DVD-Speed (4.08)

Test: "Disc Quality"

Problem:

For both the Lite-On player and the Sony burner, jitter info is missing upon completion of the "Disc Quality" test. See image below for a screen-capture from the Lite-On drive.

Questions:

Are both these drives incompatible with CD/DVD-Speed? If not, how can I test for jitter?

Thx for any info you can provide.

__________________
-KH
-----
Drives currently used:

-BenQ 1655 BCGB
-BenQ DW1640 BSMB
-Sony DRU-530A
-Lite-On LTC-48161H KH0P

Computer System in which these drives are installed:

Self-built Pentium IV 2.8MHz/ RAM 1.0 GB. Using an Antec Sonata Tower w/380 watt power supply, isolated with Dynamat insulation. Additional cooling via internal 80 mm Papst 8412NGL Quiet-Case Fan. Tower rests on Audioquest Sorbothane feet with two VPI Bricks on top of tower to further damp and curtail power-supply-based electromagnetic distortion. Video card: ATI Radeon 9600 with 256 MB video RAM. Sound card: modified M-Audio 24/96 Audiophile . Motherboard: Asus P4800 Deluxe. Hard-drives: Two Hitachi 160 GB Deskstar drives in VIA Raid 0 configuration. See the system here.

Link to one of my current projects.

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Today (MyCE Staff): Posts: 15,596

scoobiedoobie (CDFreaks Resident): Posts: 3,163; Posted: 05-11-2005

#952

KHashmi316, looks like your Sony drive is not a compatible PI/PIF scanning drive. And DVD-ROM drives are typically poor choices for doing PI/PIF tests, they are often inaccurate. My old Liteon DVD-ROM drive typically does a fair job of letting me judge the burn quality, but with some discs it was very inaccurate and gave false results. ALSO, you should not be doing the test at 'maximum' speed, with a DVD-ROM drive you'll probably get useable results at 2x or 4x at best.

It is always better to do PI/PIF tests with a burner, assuming you have one compatible - if you have a Benq 1640 as it appears, you should only use that to test your discs. Set the tests at 8x when you run them.

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KHashmi316 (New on Forum): Posts: 18; Posted: 05-11-2005

#953

Hi, scoobiedoobie:

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobiedoobie

This is invaluable info for a newbie tester such as myself

As far as the BenQ drive, my sig. line is somewhat misleading -- the 1640 is still in the box awaiting installation. You've just given me all the more reason to do so!

Speaking of Lite-On, would you (or anyone else reading this) consider getting a burner made by this company just to run KProbe? On a similar note, would you/anyone consider getting Plextor because of the software toolset that comes with their drives?

Thx for your reply!

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scoobiedoobie (CDFreaks Resident): Posts: 3,163; Posted: 05-11-2005

#954

Quote:

Originally Posted by KHashmi316

Hi, scoobiedoobie:

This is invaluable info for a newbie tester such as myself

Your welcome. I know that there are still a good number of Liteon fanatics out there, but in my opinion they are average burners at best (their CD burners and DVD-ROM drives are excellent though). Plextor makes good burners and they may ultimately make SLIGHTLY better burners for testing than others. But most will agree that overall the Benq makes a very good tester for the average user and they are excellent burners as well, nothing against a Plextor but the Benq is much cheaper, burns great, and is a very capable tester. Install your new Benq, update to FW BSLB (BSMB is buggy), and you'll have a drive that performs great as disc tester, disc ripper, and burner.

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KHashmi316 (New on Forum): Posts: 18; Posted: 05-11-2005

#955

Hi, scoobiedoobie:

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobiedoobie

Thx for the additional info.

I wonder if Plextor is STILL making "SLIGHTLY better burners for testing than others"? IIRC, some of their newer drives are no longer sourced from their parent, Shinano Kenshi.

Based on everything I've read -- and hopefully will learn first-hand after installing the 1640 -- BenQ is now a price-no-object standards-setter.

Some early reports indicate that the new Philips DVDR1648P is also excellent. Perhaps no surprise here, given the Philips/BenQ relationship. Indeed, the Philips apparently uses the same SolidBurn technology. Still wouldn't mind giving this one a spin. Unfortunately, I don't think it's avail. in the US.

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Kenshin (CDFreaks Resident): Posts: 12,722; Posted: 05-11-2005

#956

Good luck with your new DW1640.

(I don't think there's a much better choice when it comes to features/performances per cost.)

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ERIK ZEMPLENI (New on Forum): Posts: 1; Posted: 05-11-2005

#957

Hi everybody...I have a DVD-Rom TOSHIBA...1912.I have tested Dvd-rom dl(original dual layer)The computer is allways freezing when test PI/PIF is going from first layer to second layer...

This test PI/PIF is not good for Toshiba SD-M 1912 TM00
Do you know some DVD-Rom which is good in testing PI/PIF...
Please answer me ...Thank you...

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DaChew (CDFreaks Resident): Posts: 2,285; Posted: 05-11-2005

#958

You have not done your homework at all, the benq is the scanner to use, never scan at max.

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KHashmi316 (New on Forum): Posts: 18; Posted: 07-11-2005

#959

All:

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobiedoobie

And DVD-ROM drives are typically poor choices for doing PI/PIF tests, they are often inaccurate. My old Liteon DVD-ROM drive typically does a fair job of letting me judge the burn quality, but with some discs it was very inaccurate and gave false results. ALSO, you should not be doing the test at 'maximum' speed, with a DVD-ROM drive you'll probably get useable results at 2x or 4x at best.

I retested the same DVD+R noted in the thread-starter's DVD-Speed screen capture, but this time at 2X as scoobiedoobie suggested. Dunno if the new scan is more accurate, but there are notably fewer errors visible:

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rdgrimes (Retired Moderator): Posts: 11,533; Posted: 07-11-2005

#960

Quote:

Originally Posted by KHashmi316

All:
I retested the same DVD+R noted in the thread-starter's DVD-Speed screen capture, but this time at 2X as scoobiedoobie suggested. Dunno if the new scan is more accurate, but there are notably fewer errors visible:

Your scan is theoretically impossible, which is why we don't recommend using ROM/combo drives for scanning.

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bkf (Banned): Posts: 1,685; Posted: 07-11-2005

#961

Quote:

Originally Posted by KHashmi316

All:

I retested the same DVD+R noted in the thread-starter's DVD-Speed screen capture, but this time at 2X as scoobiedoobie suggested. Dunno if the new scan is more accurate, but there are notably fewer errors visible:

Fewer errors

The coated side should be facing down

Just kidding, some of these scans should be in the hall of fame

BM.......Before microwave and BT......Before truck. Like major ouch!

It's not easy getting 20 million C2's yet no PO's hmmmm

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scoobiedoobie (CDFreaks Resident): Posts: 3,163; Posted: 07-11-2005

#962

Clearly, slowing down the test did not improve its accuracy in this case.

Definitely time to install your 1640. My older Liteon DVD-ROM drive gives test results that can be translated into the tests from my Benq drives with most discs, it gave me a good idea of a disc's burn quality before I had an actual PI/PIF testing burner to use. Looks like your drive is not capable of anything meaningful at all when it comes to PI/PIF tests, use the Benq.

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KHashmi316 (New on Forum): Posts: 18; Posted: 08-11-2005

#963

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkf

Fewer errors

The coated side should be facing down

Just kidding, some of these scans should be in the hall of fame

BM.......Before microwave and BT......Before truck. Like major ouch!

It's not easy getting 20 million C2's yet no PO's hmmmm

For the fear of getting newbie-hazed some more

I thought I'd do what scoobiedoobie suggested. So, w/o further ado, the 1640 scan:

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Pulsee (CDFreaks Resident): Posts: 2,248; Posted: 08-11-2005

#964

@KHashmi316

We Also On These Forums Usually Do Quality Scans At:

BenQ Drives 8x

Lite-On Drives 4x

NEC Drives 5x

__________________

(PLEXTOR PX-760A 1.07)
(LG HL-DT-STDVD-RAM GH22NS30 1.01)
(BENQ DW1640 BEFB USB2) (BENQ DW1650 BCIC)
(SAMSUNG SH-S203B SB04 C0deKing Utility Patched)(SAMSUNG SH-S223F SB02 C0deKing Utility Patched)
(PIONEER DVR-A12XLB@DVR-112L 1.28)(PIONEER DVR-115DBK@115L 1.22)(PIONEER DVR-215BK@215L 1.22)(PIONEER DVR-216BK@216L 1.09)
(LITE-ON LH-18A1P@LH-20A1P KL0P -FB-EOS-EOHT 6 C0deKing MOD)(LITE-ON LH-20A1P KL0P -FB-EOS-EOHT 6 C0deKing MOD)
(LITE-ON DH-20A4P 9PV1 -FBL-EOHT 6 C0deKing MOD)(LITE-ON DH-20A3L EV6D HT743WIN v2 Test FW)(LITE-ON DX-20A3P XV6D HT743WIN v2 Test FW)(LITE-ON iHAS220 8L06.EOHT 8G C0deKing MOD)
(SONY AW-G170A-B2@OPTIARC AD-7173A 1.M1 RPC1 Liggy & Dee MOD)(SONY DRU-840A SS01 -FB-FR-BS-ROMD C0deKing MOD)(SONY OPTIARC AD7200AOB 1.Z3 RPC1 Liggy & Dee MOD)

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lordyu (CD Freaks Senior Member): Posts: 265; Posted: 10-11-2005

#965

Hi. I found a bug in Nero CD-DVD Speed. I burned a DVD+RW disc using Nero 5.5 and Nero CD-DVD Speed:

- doesn't recognize the disc in Plextor PX-712A. No speed test.
- doesn't recognize the disc in BenQ DW1640. No speed test. No quality scan.
- does recognize the disc in Lite-On SOHW-1693S but it got the size of the disc wrong thus problem at the end of the speed test. Also problem with quality scan.

PlexTools has no problem scanning the disc.

KProbe has no problem scanning the disc.

Data on the disc is accessible on all 3 drives. So it can't be a problem with the drives. I've tested with 5 most recent versions of CD-DVD Speed. Same problem in all of them.

#1: quality scan on Lite-On stops at 3.15GB (disc size is 4454MB)
#2: transfer speed test with wrong disc size detected thus error at the end of the disc
#3: the disc isn't fully recognized in BenQ: disc type: yes, length: no, testing allowed: no
#4: still in BenQ: disc type: yes, scanning allowed: no
#5: the disc isn't fully recognized in Plextor: disc type: yes, length: no, testing allowed: no

Attached Images

	imationB06d.png (11.6 KB, 305 views)
	imationB06e.png (10.3 KB, 302 views)
	imationB06i.png (9.2 KB, 303 views)
	imationB06h.png (9.8 KB, 303 views)
	imationB06l.png (8.9 KB, 299 views)

__________________
IDE 0:0 BenQ DW1655 Retail BCHB June 2006 Made in China
IDE 0:1 -
IDE 1:0 Plextor PX-712A TLA#0107 May 2005 Made in Japan
IDE 1:1 BenQ DW1640 OEM BSRB May 2005 Made in Malaysia

For (much) better quality and (much) smaller file size, use PNG for screenshots or screen captures.
JPG/JPEG is for photos.

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lordyu (CD Freaks Senior Member): Posts: 265; Posted: 10-11-2005

#966

#1: PlexTools PIE scan
#2: PlexTools PIF scan
#3: Kprobe scan
#4: transfer rate test of a DVD+R disc in Lite-On with CD-DVD Speed

Attached Images

	imationB06a.png (10.3 KB, 295 views)
	imationB06b.png (10.0 KB, 293 views)
	imationB06o.png (11.3 KB, 296 views)
	imationB06n.png (10.3 KB, 294 views)

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bkf (Banned): Posts: 1,685; Posted: 10-11-2005

#967

Quote:

Originally Posted by KHashmi316

For the fear of getting newbie-hazed some more

I thought I'd do what scoobiedoobie suggested. So, w/o further ado, the 1640 scan:

Better but jitter is through the moon

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rdgrimes (Retired Moderator): Posts: 11,533; Posted: 10-11-2005

#968

Haven't used CDSpeed for a scan for a long time. I just tried it and got this error. It happens with both 4.08 and 4.10. I also note that CDSpeed incorrectly identifies a DVD+R as DVD+RW when the disc is bit-set to DVD-ROM by my LG burner.

This error happens about the time that the drive spins up.

EDIT: Turned out to be a problem with this crappy LiteOn drive not recognizing the disc correctly. Went away after mounting the disc several times in different drives and refreshing Windoz.

Attached Images

CDSpeed-error.png (13.7 KB, 280 views)

Last edited by rdgrimes; 10-11-2005 at 19:58.

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muchin (CD Freaks Senior Member): Posts: 305; Posted: 10-11-2005

#969

Quote:

Originally Posted by KHashmi316

Drives being used:
- Sony DRU-530A (burner)
- Lite-On LTC-48161H (ROM only)
......
Questions:

Are both these drives incompatible with CD/DVD-Speed?

Are you aware that it is better to use KProbe, which is specifically designed for Lite-On drives, in your case?

Quote:

For the fear of getting newbie-hazed some more

I thought I'd do what scoobiedoobie suggested. So, w/o further ado, the 1640 scan:

Since you also got poor results by scanning with Benq 1640, the problem is most likely due to the burner.

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muchin (CD Freaks Senior Member): Posts: 305; Posted: 10-11-2005

#970

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdgrimes

...... we don't recommend using ROM/combo drives for scanning.

Apparently you are unawre of a post by Erik Deppe. My own experience with Lite-On 167T (ROM) and 5232K (Combo) show them to be very reliable drives for PI/PO error scanning, better than Benq 1620 and possibly many other DVD writers for this purpose.

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ala42 (MediaCodeSpeedEdit Author): Posts: 4,720; Posted: 11-11-2005

#971

Quote:

Originally Posted by OC-Freak

SolidBurn/overspeed for Benq drives is removed from this version too

Only 4.0.7 har that feature it seems.

The CDSpeed SolidBurn feature for Benq 1640 drives can be reactivated by setting this registry key:

Code:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Ahead\Nero Toolkit\CD Speed]
"Enable SolidBurn"=dword:00000001

A .reg files which just needs to be double clicked to activate this setting is available here: EnableSolidBurn.reg

__________________
LiteOn/Benq/LG/NEC/Pioneer/Samsung/Toshiba stuff: MediaCodeSpeedEdit V 1.2.0.2, released August 9th 2009

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zebadee (CD Freaks Member): Posts: 5,185; Posted: 11-11-2005

#972

Quote:

Originally Posted by ala42

The CDSpeed SolidBurn feature for Benq 1640 drives can be reactivated by setting this registry key:

Code:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Ahead\Nero Toolkit\CD Speed]
"Enable SolidBurn"=dword:00000001

A .reg files which just needs to be double clicked to activate this setting is available here: EnableSolidBurn.reg

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Smidgy (New on Forum): Posts: 4; Posted: 16-11-2005

#973

About version 4.10: now it is possible use the program without being logged in as an administrator. But when I change the settings they aren't stored in the registry. Do you (author) plan to give a user an option to save the settings into a file?

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Mister-T (CD Freaks Senior Member): Posts: 308; Posted: 17-11-2005

#974

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smidgy

Same I would like to be able to scan without running as administrator

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muu (CD Freaks Rookie): Posts: 30; Posted: 17-11-2005

#975

Hi, Great tool! Thanks for all the hard work

I was wondering what can be made of these scans, this RICOHJPN R03 +R disc was burned at 8x with an NEC 3520 using Liggy&Dee's latest 2.U3 firmware/write strategies, the scans are from the same drive

Many Disc Quality scans at 8x give mostly similar PIF-Max results, but 5x scans vary quite a bit, 1x has a worrysome spike well over 16 that takes the Quality Score way down(isn't 1x most representative of how the disc will play on a set-top player?), 12x begins spiking massively towards the end of the disc and 16x pretty much explodes and eventually gives a No Seek error before aborting the scan

I've read this whole thread and learned a lot, it seems 8x is the recommended scan speed for NEC drives, what is the reason for this? Wouldn't 1x be a better test for how dvd players read? or is there a CLV vs CAV problem with that comparison

I also read that the tolerated spec for 1ECC Sum is 4 but then shouldn't 8ECC Sum be 32? It seems 16 is the accepted threshold, can get clarification on this?

I hope theres a way to understand how the PIF-Max readings vary wildly some times

Thanks for any help, heres the 1x and a few varying 5x scans

Attached Images

	1x_NEC____DVD_RW_ND-3520AW_2.U3_16-November-2005_16_27.png (43.3 KB, 208 views)
	5x_NEC____DVD_RW_ND-3520AW_2.U3_16-November-2005_15_15.png (44.2 KB, 206 views)
	5x_NEC____DVD_RW_ND-3520AW_2.U3_16-November-2005_14_45.png (44.0 KB, 204 views)
	5x_NEC____DVD_RW_ND-3520AW_2.U3_16-November-2005_17_06.png (43.7 KB, 204 views)
	5x_NEC____DVD_RW_ND-3520AW_2.U3_16-November-2005_17_43.png (45.7 KB, 204 views)

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