CD-DVD Speed Disc Quality (PI/PIF) Test

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Disc Testing Methods and Software Discuss, CD-DVD Speed Disc Quality (PI/PIF) Test at Blank Media forum; rdgrimes, that could be the key piece of info I was missing! I didn't realize an 8x scan locked my scanning speed at 8x (I figured it varied as needed). In fact, when I look at the speed line on some of my Nero scans, the speed dips down to

Old Posted: 15-08-2005
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Sapo (CD Freaks Junior Member)
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rdgrimes, that could be the key piece of info I was missing! I didn't realize an 8x scan locked my scanning speed at 8x (I figured it varied as needed). In fact, when I look at the speed line on some of my Nero scans, the speed dips down to 2x every so often (even on scans with very good results) while on other scans it's very steady. I never have figured out what caused this on certain discs, but I assumed the scan was changing speeds for some reason.

To summarize:
- DVD players play back at 1x or 2x (I forget which), so a disc with huge PIFs and POs on an 8x scan will probably have fewer PIFs and 0 POs when played at 1x or 2x.
- DVD-ROM drives are able to change speed to compensate for errors behind the scenes, so when they encounter discs with bad scans at 8x they are probably slowing down (invisibly to me) to compensate.
- If I rescan some of these discs with bad 8x scans at 1x or 2x, I should expect all the POs to go away, no more "no sense indication" error messages, and the PIFs should drop below 16 (for a BenQ).

Are the above statements correct?

This begs one more question: should I replace (i.e. re-burn on different media) any discs that have very bad 8x scans at the end (ones with huge PIF/PO spikes), but work fine on players, DVD-ROM drives, and have "OK" error scans at lower speeds? (In other words, should bad 8x scans worry me or only bad 1x or 2x scans?)

Obviously I won't do too many 1x or 2x scans as they would be very slow and I'd be sending my BenQ 1620 to an early grave with so much error scanning.
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Old Posted: 15-08-2005
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perpetual (New on Forum)
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ErikDeppe,

Great piece of software.

Would it be possible in a future version for the Disc Quality section to have an added option like:
Prompt for Description or
Prompt for Note

Just to have an option to type in a line of text that would be added to the graph
Like the one circled in red in the screen capture below:

Thanks for your time and coding.
Attached Images
File Type: png Sanyo_YUDEN000_T02.png (47.1 KB, 556 views)
Old Posted: 15-08-2005
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rdgrimes (Retired Moderator)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapo
r
Are the above statements correct?

This begs one more question: should I replace (i.e. re-burn on different media) any discs that have very bad 8x scans at the end (ones with huge PIF/PO spikes), but work fine on players, DVD-ROM drives, and have "OK" error scans at lower speeds? (In other words, should bad 8x scans worry me or only bad 1x or 2x scans?)

Obviously I won't do too many 1x or 2x scans as they would be very slow and I'd be sending my BenQ 1620 to an early grave with so much error scanning.
Yes, you more or less have it right.

I would replace any discs that scan poorly at 8x, as they will be more prone to degrade in time.
Old Posted: 15-08-2005
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BeardedKirklander (CD Freak)
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I'm confused as to what the DISC QUALITY legends on the left and right side of the bar graph mean. It looks like Jitter's legend is on the left at some point, then on the right if the graph rescales.

Can someone explain the legends on CD-SPEED 4.x?

Thanks much

Maybe the author could put some text labels near them?
Old Posted: 17-08-2005
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blueboyec (New on Forum)
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ErikDeppe,

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikDeppe
Originally Posted by DrageMester
Excellent! Just what the doctor ordered (I rarely use the NRG format).

Are we going to see an option for adjusting the ECC scanning interval (for NEC 35x0 drives) without using the registry hack in a future verion of Nero CD-DVD Speed?

I'll add this with the next version. Using the registry editor for this is not very convenient 4/14/2005
Has this been added yet?
Old Posted: 19-08-2005
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Johntea (CD Freaks Member)
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Hi - Is this a decent result ? It is pretty close to full, as I the test source was the first DVD from my shiny new 24 Season 4 set

RiData 8x DVD-R (RITEKG05)

Sorry about the image quality, I only have Paint installed!
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File Type: jpg cddvdscan.JPG (73.5 KB, 513 views)
Old Posted: 19-08-2005
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Squirrel (CDFreaks Resident)
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Looks very decent, considering it was a Ritek G05, and it has been scanned on a DVD-ROM drive, which usually return higher values.
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Old Posted: 20-08-2005
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Sapo (CD Freaks Junior Member)
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On my BenQ 1620, numerous discs I scanned at 8x have horrible PIE/PIF spikes near the end which cause them to get a quality score of 0 or sometimes end with the "No sense indication" error. Rdgrimes said the reason I never get an error when playing back such a disc or error scanning with various utilities is that DVD players play back at a slower speed and Windows invisibly compensates for errors by slowing down the drive.

I decided to rescan some of the same discs at a slower speed (4x is the slowest available for me in Nero CD-DVD Speed). When I rescanned those same discs at 4x, none of them had these horrible error spikes near the end! They all look beautiful.

How should I interpret this? How can there be such a massive discrepancy between scans at 4x and 8x on certain discs? I'm not sure if I should consider these discs bad and I should replace them, or if I should consider these OK but keep my eye on them.

I've attached 2 scans of the exact same disc in the same drive. The only difference is the scan speed. The 8x failed with a huge spike and "No sense indication". The 4x looks very good to me.
Attached Images
File Type: png 8xscan.png (20.1 KB, 494 views)
File Type: png 4xscan.png (19.5 KB, 485 views)
Old Posted: 20-08-2005
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rdgrimes (Retired Moderator)
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This appears to be an example of marginal quality discs. I would consider them suspect and replace them. They are good enough to play back, but scan poorly, and may very well deteriorate in time to being unreadable at any speed. You'll also note that the jitter was spiking at the end to unacceptable levels.
Old Posted: 21-08-2005
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ok nvm. figured it out
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Old Posted: 22-08-2005
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Eric, v4.01 displays this message (see attached) when I try to scan a disc at 8x in the Liteon 1693S, whereas v4.00 works okay. If I try different speeds and then come back to 8x, sometimes it will work and produces an expected scan result. 4x works okay every time. I've been getting good results scanning at 8x in the 1693S and got used to using this for my own checking of burns, but this tends to put a stop to that.

The second scan is one that I managed to get to work with 4.01 by changing speeds and then coming back to 8x.
Attached Images
File Type: png Nero_QS_Not_Supported.PNG (28.6 KB, 443 views)
File Type: png D47_KS0A_MCC004_16x_NS_ES_8x_1.png (28.1 KB, 440 views)
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Old Posted: 22-08-2005
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rdgrimes (Retired Moderator)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C0deKing
Eric, v4.01 displays this message (see attached) when I try to scan a disc at 8x in the Liteon 1693S, whereas v4.00 works okay. .
4.04 seems to work fine at 8x here.
Code:
General Information
 Drive: LITE-ON DVDRW SOHW-1693S
 Firmware: KS0A
 Disc: DVD-R (TYG02)
 Selected speed: 8 X
PI errors
 Maximum: 15
 Average: 3.24
 Total: 26824
PI failures
 Maximum: 5
 Average: 0.01
 Total: 49
PO failures: n/a
Jitter: n/a
Scanning Statistics
 Elapsed time: 8:46
 Number of samples: 103956
 Average scanning interval: 1.17 ECC
 Glitches removed: 0
Old Posted: 22-08-2005
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Thanks RD. I haven't updated Nero ROM for a while and I see it's not on the cdspeed2000 site yet.
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Old Posted: 22-08-2005
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I have v4.04 now and yes it does fix the problem, thanks
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Old Posted: 22-08-2005
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Erik have you figured out why CD Speed says you can overburn DVD on a Benq 1640 but cannot overburn with any writing software yet?
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Old Posted: 23-08-2005
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ErikDeppe (Opti Drive Control Author)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadMan
Erik have you figured out why CD Speed says you can overburn DVD on a Benq 1640 but cannot overburn with any writing software yet?
Overburning DVDs works fine with the BenQ. At least with CD-DVD Speed. I haven't tried it with Nero yet but I assume it works.

I posted some pictures in the BenQ overburing thread:
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=146051
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Old Posted: 24-08-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeardedKirklander
I'm confused as to what the DISC QUALITY legends on the left and right side of the bar graph mean. It looks like Jitter's legend is on the left at some point, then on the right if the graph rescales.

Can someone explain the legends on CD-SPEED 4.x?

Thanks much

Maybe the author could put some text labels near them?
Sorry for the confusion.
Here's the explanation:
Top left: PI errors
Top right: read/write speed
Bottom left: PI failures or PO errors
Bottom right: Jitter
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Old Posted: 24-08-2005
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ErikDeppe (Opti Drive Control Author)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C0deKing
Personally I'm against this feature, usless there is some way to indicate that it has happened and possibly how many were removed or what the max reading were before the removal of the spikes, and it doesn't look like your current screen space would allow for this.

KProbe scans lost a lot of credability with me after I found out about the average bug that occurred when a spike was removed. This then allowed me to see just how many scans displayed had in fact had spikes removed and it was quite a lot - then you have to wonder how many spikes were removed.

The thing I like the most about CD-DVD Speed's quality scan is that I can believe what I'm seeing. I personally don't think you should take that away.
Good point!
After reading your comments I agree that it's better to keep it the way it is.
I've done many scans with recent LiteOn drives the last few days and the automatic spike removal function seems to be adequate.
The remaining spikes are usually at the calibration points.

Like this one:


The automatic spike removal of CD-DVD Speed is actually pretty complicated. Spikes are only removed after several conditions are met.
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Old Posted: 24-08-2005
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ErikDeppe (Opti Drive Control Author)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MediumRare
Hi Erik,
I have another question regarding the option to burn an image (nrg or iso) with CD-Speed (which works fine now in version 4.0.1, thank you).

The drive ID and burning speed are stored on the disc somewhere, but this seems to be hidden (in contrast to a generated data disc). If I look at a disc with the Windows explorer or even with Isobuster, there is no trace of this information, but it's obviously present because CD-Speed show it in a quality scan.

Just where does CD-Speed store this data?

G
The information is stored at the very end of the disc but it's not accessible as a file when an image file is burned.
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Old Posted: 30-08-2005
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lordyu (CD Freaks Senior Member)
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Just been playing with Nero CD-DVD Speed on a new drive.

Here is when doing speed test in CD-DVD Speed and PlexTools at the same time. Look at the curve between 0.5-1.0 GB marks when PlexTools PIE scan was started and stopped.


Try speed test again at 8x, same effect.


Now, when doing quality scan, the speed curve isn't affected much just a few bit of "vibration" instead of smooth curve.


Try quality scan without PlexTools scanning at the same time at all. PIE and PIF curves and figures are similar to those from the previous one.


Both drives are on secondary channel. PX-712A connected as master, DW1640 as slave. Is it safe to say that doing quality scan on both drives at the same time is okay?
Old Posted: 31-08-2005
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lui_gough (CDFreaks Resident)
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May cause sampling timing errors ... use at your own risk
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Old Posted: 31-08-2005
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rdgrimes (Retired Moderator)
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Quote:
Both drives are on secondary channel. PX-712A connected as master, DW1640 as slave. Is it safe to say that doing quality scan on both drives at the same time is okay?
Results will be very unreliable.
Old Posted: 01-09-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadMan
I have another request which may have been requested already. The ability to set the ECC checking value on the disc quality tab rather than having to set it in the registry each time.
a GUI for changing ecc is here
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Old Posted: 01-09-2005
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lordyu (CD Freaks Senior Member)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ala42
- When saving .png images the images are not stored with maximum compression level. Using IrfanView I could reduce the size from 30-32 KB to 16-19 KB by simply loading and saving the images. This reduction would be nice to have in the longer test threads for faster loading.
Was going to write something about saving screenshots and found this suggestion by ala42. Seems like it hasn't been fixed/improved in the latest versions.

Having seen many people still using JPG when capture screenshots, plus many people especially those who have broadband connection seem to be unaware of the fact that many people in many parts of the world still using 56kbps modem, I would like to take this opportunity to illustrate to everyone who still using JPG why you shouldn't use it when capture screenshots. I'm not gonna talk much but please look at the quality and filesize of each of the images below.

1. PNG saved by CD-DVD Speed. 36,396 bytes.


2. JPG saved by CD-DVD Speed. 84,751 bytes. Look at the quality of the image. Notice the filesize.


3. capture the screenshot manually and save it as PNG. 24,112 bytes. Same quality as [1] but smaller. This is what ala42 was talking about and could be improved in CD-DVD Speed.


4a. capture the screenshot manually and save it as JPG with Compression Factor = 1. 314,154 bytes. Quality is as good as PNG. But the file is too large.


4b. capture the screenshot manually and save it as JPG with Compression Factor = 5. 194,596 bytes. Quality is still good. Filesize is smaller than [4a] but still large compared to PNG.


4c. capture the screenshot manually and save it as JPG with Compression Factor = 10. 143,760 bytes. You can see that the quality of the area surrounding the text is starting to become fuzzy. Filesize is smaller than [4b] but still large compared to PNG.


4d. capture the screenshot manually and save it as JPG with Compression Factor = 20. 106,265 bytes.


4e. capture the screenshot manually and save it as JPG with Compression Factor = 30. 74,368 bytes. This is almost equivalent to JPG saved by CD-DVD Speed [2]. I think CD-DVD Speed uses Compression Factor = 28.


5. let's have a look at PNG in [3] again. It can still be improved because the number of colors can still be reduced. For example, the filesize can be a lot smaller if it is reduced to 256 colors. You can see a bit of quality reduction due to the use of gradient as graphs' background. 14,603 bytes.


6. if the gradient is not used, the quality would be exactly the same as the original, with smaller filesize of course. 13,760 bytes.


As you can see, using the default PNG instead of JPG in CD-DVD Speed gives you pleasant-looking images with much smaller files. It can save more than half the traffic and half the time to download on each image. Moreover, CD-DVD Speed can still be improved by not using "background 2" by default for themes (e.g., Bright, High Contrast) to avoid the gradient effect AND reduce the colors to 256 or less when saves.

As for the option to save as JPG, I personnaly think it should be removed or hidden from average users. I don't see any benefit of using JPG in CD-DVD Speed at all.

JPG is not set as default image format in CD-DVD Speed. I wonder why many people still save it as JPG. Did they change the setting in CD-DVD Speed from PNG to JPG manually? If so, anyone know why?

Moderators: I hope it's ok for my post to be here. If not, feel free to slit it to a new thread.
Old Posted: 01-09-2005
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Thanks

Just what I was looking for!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnlson
a GUI for changing ecc is here
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