Old 09-10-2004   #276
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

Erik, those new features (especially the "comparable graphs and quality scores" feature) look very exciting, really looking forward to the next version.

The Aopen 1648/AAP might become interesting for quality testing after all. If we can compare quality scores in a easy and convenient way, CD-DVD Speed might become the standard of quality testing for us normal consumers, since testing would not be limited to a certain brand of drives.
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Old 10-10-2004   #277
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

Hi...

@Erik:
I use a Benq DW800 for scanning my dvds (with nero cd-dvd speed 3.30) burned with the benq or the LG GSA-4120. I've installed the latest firmware in both drives and i've the problem that i get a error "FOCUS SERVO FAILURE (040902)" if i scan a burned DVD+R DL. The error occurs around the layer change (progress is 49%).

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But i can do a speed test, a surface scan with nero cd-dvd speed and copy all files from DVD to hd without error from that DVD+R DL with the benq, the LG and my Liteon DVD-Reader. A error scan with the Liteon reader works great ("as all Liteon reader scans"... ) and i get no FOCUS error.

Scanning a single layer works perfectly with the benq.

Do you've had that problem with a DW822?

Kind regards,

Gerd
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Old 10-10-2004   #278
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by MediumRare
Hi Erik,
Thank you for your continued work on this tool. I'm looking forward to the new version!

I like the idea of marking an "in the green" area for PIF-counts as long as you don't change the values actually reported. From your samples, this seems to be for PIF only (the colour is hard to distinguish on my monitor- I'll have to try the new version myself. )

Storing "Create Data Disc" information on the disc itself is also a super idea, like your sample shows! Thank you!

With the increasing information you're making available, I'd like to repeat halcyon's request for labels on the axes (I'm a physicist and would like to see units on everything too). If there is a problem finding room for this information, adding a colour-code to the axes would do the trick.

What does the RH scale on the lower plots for the LiteOn and Asus drive refer to? (It's missing on the AOpen plot.)

G
Thanks for the comments

The test only shows the colored bars for PIFs and also the quality score only considers PIFs. According to my tests it's almost impossible to use the PI errors for calibration because the differences are too high.

I've increased the brigtness of the colored bars a bit so they should be more visible

The RH scale is used for jitter (in %) but it should not appear if the drive can't report jitter. I have fixed this.

I will try to add the labels to the axes with the next version.
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Old 10-10-2004   #279
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by packetloss
Erik, those new features (especially the "comparable graphs and quality scores" feature) look very exciting, really looking forward to the next version.

The Aopen 1648/AAP might become interesting for quality testing after all. If we can compare quality scores in a easy and convenient way, CD-DVD Speed might become the standard of quality testing for us normal consumers, since testing would not be limited to a certain brand of drives.
The comparable graphs and scores may also convince certain manufacturers to give their support for the Disc Quality test.
Some of them are worried that people will think the scanning function of their drives is not accurate because it shows more errors than LiteOn scans.
I hope this version can convince them to support PI/PO testing
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Old 10-10-2004   #280
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWGT
Hi...

@Erik:
I use a Benq DW800 for scanning my dvds (with nero cd-dvd speed 3.30) burned with the benq or the LG GSA-4120. I've installed the latest firmware in both drives and i've the problem that i get a error "FOCUS SERVO FAILURE (040902)" if i scan a burned DVD+R DL. The error occurs around the layer change (progress is 49%).

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But i can do a speed test, a surface scan with nero cd-dvd speed and copy all files from DVD to hd without error from that DVD+R DL with the benq, the LG and my Liteon DVD-Reader. A error scan with the Liteon reader works great ("as all Liteon reader scans"... ) and i get no FOCUS error.

Scanning a single layer works perfectly with the benq.

Do you've had that problem with a DW822?

Kind regards,

Gerd
This should not be a problem with the new version anymore
Here is a screenshot:

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Old 10-10-2004   #281
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

The new version (3.40) is out.
Here is the list of changes:

<UL>
<LI>Create Data Disc: Test results can be recorded on the disc.</LI>
<LI>Disc Quality Test:
<UL>
<LI>Added enhanced scanning capabilities for BenQ 8x DVD recorders.</LI>
<LI>Added advanced jitter test for AOpen Combo drives and CD-RW recorders.</LI>
<LI>Added colored bars on the background to show the acceptable level of errors.</LI>
<LI>Improved scoring system.</LI>
</UL>
<LI>Many small improvements and bug fixes</LI>
</UL>
Download
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Old 10-10-2004   #282
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikDeppe
This should not be a problem with the new version anymore
Here is a screenshot:

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Hi...

yes, it's not an issue anymore... I'm currently scanning my media and currently the scan is at 55%.

Speed: The speed is increased to a max. of 3.7 (start about 1.4) here which is good, but you've got a max of 8 with the same drive? Any clues?

Kind regards,

Gerd

PS: As you can see in my picture of the FOCUS error the german word "Durchschnitt" is always missing the last "t".
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Old 10-10-2004   #283
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWGT
Hi...

yes, it's not an issue anymore... I'm currently scanning my media and currently the scan is at 55%.

Speed: The speed is increased to a max. of 3.7 (start about 1.4) here which is good, but you've got a max of 8 with the same drive? Any clues?

Kind regards,

Gerd

PS: As you can see in my picture of the FOCUS error the german word "Durchschnitt" is always missing the last "t".
Thanks for letting me know. I will fix this in the next version.

If you set the speed to 8x (not maximum) then you should be able to scan at 8x.
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Old 10-10-2004   #284
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

Nice job Erik!
I really like the overlay of the burn graph...
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Old 10-10-2004   #285
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

I posted a comparison between Nero CD-DVD 3.40 and 3.30 disc quality scanning with the Aopen 1648/AAP drive here. The whole thread (about the Aopen 1648/AAP drive) can be found here.

Thanks a lot for this Erik!
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Old 10-10-2004   #286
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

Erik, I don't know what you did but I can scn now using my BenQ DW822 in an Oxford enclosure - yeeeesssss It's amazing how you see the result of different burners, different media etc.... A whole new world

I was this close to buying an Aopen1648 to replace my Pioneer 106s (might still do it though - if there is any way to donate whatever I can afford I gladly will. Keep up the good work - I just hope that Ahead let's you keep on playing with CDSpeed - it is an incredible tool!
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Old 10-10-2004   #287
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by professor_nova
LG GCE-8320B (firm 1.04)

Disk Quality Test, the drive just spins-up, and then does nothing. The program does not freeze. I can stop the test.

Disk Quality Test (3.16, 3.21 and 3.30)

Audio-CD (Pressed) - Works
Audio-CD (Recorded) - Don't work

Data CD (Pressed) - Works
Data CD (Recorded)(CD-R) - Don't work
Data CD (Recorded)(CD-RW) - Don't work
I can confirm the same with CDSpeed 3.30 and 3.40:
LG GCE-8320B (v1.04), the version with 2MB of buffer, only scans pressed discs.

With CDRs, CDSpeed spins the drive, and then it does nothing.

I don't have any nForce mobo, it has an intel BX chipset.

Anyway, great program.
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Old 10-10-2004   #288
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

Thanks for the update! I can report a slight speed increase when scanning on DW1620 using 8x setting (up to 1.6x now on my comp).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikDeppe
Here are some of the other changes:
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So even though the errors are up to 3000x higher the graphs and
I know there aren't any units on the graphs yet, but I don't think 48 723 PIF is possible in any reasonable scanning interval.

For PIF, I think the maximum for 32 ECC blocks summed is 208 (PI rows / ECC block) x 32 (ECC blocks) = 6 656 erroneus PI rows (=PIF).

POE could be up to that high. Based on how calculated and implemented, I think POE could be as high as 6656 * 167 = 1 111 5552 for each 32 ECC block summed window (if I understand the DVD spec right).

I think all of this would make more sense to my little brain, if common units were labelled and graphed on the charts (please, pretty please ).

I know the point is not to get absolute numbers. However, when graphing known unit measures we could at least check if the drives are actually reporting figures that are even theoretically possible, or if they are just misbehaving and reporting 'whatever'.

cheers,
halcyon
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Old 10-10-2004   #289
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

Hi Erik,

I like the comparable graphs and comparable quality scores on the V3.40, it's a nice feature with color in the back ground . However, when you have time, can you take look at this?

Both picture scan the same disc on the same day, it think the disc has booktype of DVD-ROM on DVD-R so the word PRINCO didn't show up on LiteOn, likely disc/drive combo issue. The disc is burned with LiteOn with strategy swap.

I know that you set BTC's green background at 4 PIF rating, yellow at 10(?), and 10+ is red, same as what I saw for my LiteOn. However, you will notice that BTC is showing much much higher values in both PI and PIF , eventhough both drive have the same MTK chip.

If possible, could you ask BTC (or if you already) what the ratio suppose to be for the BTC drives in order to get comparable quality and graph? Also you notice the background is not showing red on BTC's picture, I think the red background stop showing from certain PIF value, but I don't know the exact PIF where the red background stopped showing up.

Thank you for your work. This is a really useful free program.
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Old 11-10-2004   #290
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

As a frugal person, I wanted to try the new data disc option with a rewritable and ran into a problem. CDSpeed apparently detects the disc as a DVD with capacity 0 ( ) and almost all options are grayed out:
Code:
Manufacturer        : Verbatim
Code                : MKM A02
Disc Type           : DVD+RW
Usage               : General
Recording Layer     : -
Recording Speed     : 4 X
Capacity            : -
                      
Additional Capacity : -
Overburn Capacity   : -
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I'm running a LiteOn SOHW-1213S@1633S (BS0H) and have deactivated auto-bitsetting in case this makes a difference. Both KProbe2 and Nero (6.3.1.15) show disc and book type as DVD+RW. This is independent of doing a prior full or quick erase.

As far as I can tell, this behaviour was already present in v3.30 but not in v.3.10.

Any suggestions?

G
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Old 11-10-2004   #291
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikDeppe
I ran some tests but everything look ok here.
Perhaps you can try the latest firmware?

Here are some screenshots:
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I will try to add speed settings for the Advanced DAE test in the next version.
How nice! The graphs are exactly what I have been looking for. Not much information about tests done on ABEX TCD-726 are available in the Internet. In CD Speed web pages, only the results for ABEX TCD-721R are published. Although TCD-721R is usually more difficult to read, there is no correlation between the available test data for the two discs, and what is closer to real-life defects more commonly encountered is uncertain. Besides, the content has not been updated for quite some time. If you would have more data added, I believe that at least people archiving their music collections will be much interested.

<O</OFlashing with the latest firmware makes little if any difference. But I have created another test disc using a Plextor writer, and got no C2 errors in both tests reproducibly. The new test disc showed much less C1 errors, so the variability of the previous disc is presumably caused by the Liteon writer’s poor recording performance.

<O</OAlso thank you very much for responding to requests of adding units to the Disc Quality test and providing speed setting for the Advanced DAE Test.
<O</O
Although I have not got around to try the newest version of CD-DVD Speed, I am very excited about the marvelous new features, especially the one for measuring jitters in each length type separately in standard unit. Wonderful
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Old 11-10-2004   #292
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

SONY 08D1 burned at 12X with NEC ND-3500AG (CD-Speed V3.40)
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Old 12-10-2004   #293
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWGT
Hi...

@Erik:
I use a Benq DW800 for scanning my dvds (with nero cd-dvd speed 3.30) burned with the benq or the LG GSA-4120. I've installed the latest firmware in both drives and i've the problem that i get a error "FOCUS SERVO FAILURE (040902)" if i scan a burned DVD+R DL. The error occurs around the layer change (progress is 49%).

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But i can do a speed test, a surface scan with nero cd-dvd speed and copy all files from DVD to hd without error from that DVD+R DL with the benq, the LG and my Liteon DVD-Reader. A error scan with the Liteon reader works great ("as all Liteon reader scans"... ) and i get no FOCUS error.

Scanning a single layer works perfectly with the benq.

Do you've had that problem with a DW822?

Kind regards,

Gerd
Hi, Erik

I had the same problem with PioData DVD+R DL,too.
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I had test it two times and get the same error message at the same point.And also the disc's surface scan and speed test look good.

But what is interesting and strange, I had successfully run over the test with MKM DVD+R DL before.
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Old 13-10-2004   #294
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

I am getting this error randomly on certain disks scanning with Benq 822A..this is AML002 media it randomly pops up usually after a few minutes. using CDSpeed 3.40
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Old 13-10-2004   #295
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

Jamos,

is that media 100% readable (all data can be accessed) in the BenQ drive?

I've also gotten a full hardware lock up with my DW1620 on MAM-E DVD-R media when doing a 'disc quality scan', but that disc is not readable in my BenQ to begin with.

The scan stops at 67% where AOpen DVD1648 also fails the disc test. LiteOn 851s can scan the whole disc though. As can PX712.
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Old 13-10-2004   #296
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

>ErikDeppe
I was eager to try out the new 3.40 on my BenQ DW1620 but came across a known bug in the software that prevented me from accessing the drive.
I have a large tower with 12 optical DVD drives in it and CD/DVD speed will only report 9 drives maximum so the BenQ drive and 2 others do not appear in the drop down list. All these drives are on PCI IDE controllers except for the BenQ & a Liteon DVD-ROM which are connected to the internal IDE and they all function correctly with my burning softwares as well as DVDInfoPro.
A workaround for this is for me to disable one of my controllers and reboot the system so I have only 8 drives present & then the CD/DVD Speed will then see the missing drives. As you can imagine this is inconvenient because I then need a reboot to re-enable the missing drives and the drive letters have changed from the ones I had originally assigned them together with their scsi ID which usually means a regedit to set them back to how I like them
Please can you look into this and fix the software so that it will recognise more than 9 optical drives in the one PC.
NB. This problem has not just developed with the latest version it was apparent with earlier versions but this time I decided to report it to you.
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Old 13-10-2004   #297
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerDembo
Erik, I don't know what you did but I can scn now using my BenQ DW822 in an Oxford enclosure - yeeeesssss It's amazing how you see the result of different burners, different media etc.... A whole new world

I was this close to buying an Aopen1648 to replace my Pioneer 106s (might still do it though - if there is any way to donate whatever I can afford I gladly will. Keep up the good work - I just hope that Ahead let's you keep on playing with CDSpeed - it is an incredible tool!
That's good to hear
No need for a donation. Nero CD-DVD Speed is real freeware
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Old 13-10-2004   #298
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by minix
I can confirm the same with CDSpeed 3.30 and 3.40:
LG GCE-8320B (v1.04), the version with 2MB of buffer, only scans pressed discs.

With CDRs, CDSpeed spins the drive, and then it does nothing.

I don't have any nForce mobo, it has an intel BX chipset.

Anyway, great program.
I will try to find an LG GCE-8320B to run some tests.
It's a strange problem.
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Old 13-10-2004   #299
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

You certainly have your hands full, Erik! So many drives, so many phantom problems, requests, etc.

If there's anything us users can do, except keep on asking for features and testing for drive related bugs, please don't hesitate to ask.

Your software is such a useful tool that I'd like to help in any way I can.
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Old 13-10-2004   #300
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Re: CDSpeed v3 Disc Quality Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halcyon
Thanks for the update! I can report a slight speed increase when scanning on DW1620 using 8x setting (up to 1.6x now on my comp).



I know there aren't any units on the graphs yet, but I don't think 48 723 PIF is possible in any reasonable scanning interval.

For PIF, I think the maximum for 32 ECC blocks summed is 208 (PI rows / ECC block) x 32 (ECC blocks) = 6 656 erroneus PI rows (=PIF).

POE could be up to that high. Based on how calculated and implemented, I think POE could be as high as 6656 * 167 = 1 111 5552 for each 32 ECC block summed window (if I understand the DVD spec right).

I think all of this would make more sense to my little brain, if common units were labelled and graphed on the charts (please, pretty please ).

I know the point is not to get absolute numbers. However, when graphing known unit measures we could at least check if the drives are actually reporting figures that are even theoretically possible, or if they are just misbehaving and reporting 'whatever'.

cheers,
halcyon
I've checked it and the second graph indeed shows PO errors instead of PI failures.
Also the unit of measurement is in bytes and not columns.
There are a lot of bytes in 64 ECC blocks
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