PIF higher than PIE?

thia@9 · 13-07-2005

PIF higher than PIE

Embedded Images

View/download images and remove advertisements by registering now! (it's easy, free and takes less than a minute)

You must be registered in order view images in this forum.

I hear PIF can't be higher than PIE......is it wrong?

[Burn drive] TEAC DV-W516E
[Media] Samsung DigitAll DVD-R 1x(BeAll G00001)
[Scan drive] BenQ DW1620

ILikePie · 13-07-2005

Pie ?!?

semo · 13-07-2005

yeah that does not look good to me.

what media have you used and @ what speed have you burned. i have not seen that id but then again i'm not that much of experience.

*8T8* · 13-07-2005

Besidies the obvious high PIF have you tried the transfer rate test with both drives the Teac & BenQ to see whats its reading curve is like ?

Just curious but does the BenQ Booktype tool work with that drive the TEAC DV-W516E their was a suggestion it could be a BenQ DQ60 but its more than likely its an original Teac design.

*Xterminator* · 13-07-2005

I would not worry so much about PIE or PIF in this case (and there is nothing that says which one should be lower, although usually there are more PI Errors than PI Failures), but even 1 POF is considered fatal - and you have 3000+ of them. Jitter of 35 is also extreme.
I would hesitate to use this disc as a coaster.

Ma_Jie · 13-07-2005

Xterminator: I have a disc with countless POFs, and it plays fine....

See here: Scan

- Jie

*Quikee* · 13-07-2005

PIF can be higher than PIE if the drive reports all PIE without PIF as BenQ does. But if PIE are all PIE+PIF then this isn't possible. I know LiteOn reports PIE this way but I'm not sure about other drives.

*bichonn* · 13-07-2005

Beall G00001, what is this media???
I have never seen any? Is it common?

*8T8* · 13-07-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by bichonn

Beall G00001, what is this media???
I have never seen any? Is it common?

Its 1x DVD-R so I dont think its all that common unless someone else knows otherwise.

*Qyngali* · 13-07-2005

Not common anymore, no. I bought a batch of them about 2 years ago, maybe 2.5. Of course, situation might be different in Asia. I'll see if I can run a scan on one of them, hang on.

*ninbang* · 13-07-2005

So, this media you've shown scans of is essentially 2 year old media? Possibly, that's the problem?

Your 2nd scan (July 2003) is not a hall of fame achievement, but good enough for cheap media, I suppose. Still, it's a 95. Considering the media is now 2 years old and the media you're using is not very common (esp. if it's 1x stuff), so there's no telling how well the media 'ages' even without data written on them. Others have mentioned data integrity (and in this case, media integrity) is greatly influenced by the storage methods & conditions. Care to comment on how they've been kept over the last 2 years?

The funny part is ... comparing the 2 scans ... your PIE's (max & ttls) actually DECREASED!! Lol.

*ninbang* · 13-07-2005

Btw, as Majie mentioned, I, too, have had media burned by an older LiteOn that produced tons of POF's and some of the ugliest scans I've seen. But, the good news is, they still play.

I'd probably think twice about using that media for mission-critical data / burning. But, heck ... if you can play it back, then it's "useable". Worthy of some pyro-technics.

G'luck.

*Qyngali* · 13-07-2005

In case you didn't notice, well actually you didn't notice. I'm not the thread starter. The scan I posted was burned on a Pioneer A04, date is in the scan. It's been stored in a regular jewel case on a shelf in the living room. I just posted it as a comparison.

*ninbang* · 14-07-2005

@Qyngali:

OOOPS!!! My bad .... I promise to pay more attention from now on. Hehe.

*Qyngali* · 14-07-2005

Here's a really horrible scan, 4x version of basicly the same media. Notice the area with higher PIF than PIE. And the POFs... lol.

thia@9 · 14-07-2005

thank you everyone.

Perhaps, this seems the problem of DV-W516E.
RITEKG04@2x resulted similarly.

Embedded Images

View/download images and remove advertisements by registering now! (it's easy, free and takes less than a minute)

You must be registered in order view images in this forum.

(and an another problem......this drive couldn't burn @4x)

BeAllG00001 is not common in my country.
I bought this in meritline.com.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quikee

PIF can be higher than PIE if the drive reports all PIE without PIF as BenQ does. But if PIE are all PIE+PIF then this isn't possible. I know LiteOn reports PIE this way but I'm not sure about other drives.

It's helpful for me very much! thank you.

<>

*ninbang* · 15-07-2005

@thia@9:

OMG!!!!!

I don't think I've ever seen a 39.5" Jitter Max!!! Incredible.

How do your other media burn in that Teac burner?

*swifty7* · 15-07-2005

I have never seen scans that bad in my life, you guys should post those scans in the "hall of shame" thread!!! lol

riggits · 15-07-2005

If you notice the first scan, the gigantic *dip* in PIF comes after a power adjustment. I've had the same exact problem with my Prodisc S02, it burnt like absolutely the worst crap possible, but *always* in steps (like yours). See the scan below (BEFORE disabling WOPC).
I'll let you guess how to fix it (sometimes

)

riggits · 15-07-2005

I did a few shitty burns like above, all were even worse if you can believe that.
Here's a typical burn after disabling WOPC:

*ninbang* · 15-07-2005

hmmm ... that's strange how disabling WOPC would improve the burn. If anything, I would've assumed there would be more errors. Those two scans ... like two completely different burners. Lol.

riggits · 16-07-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninbang

hmmm ... that's strange how disabling WOPC would improve the burn. If anything, I would've assumed there would be more errors. Those two scans ... like two completely different burners. Lol.

The good thing is, it's totally consistent. If I turn WOPC back on, it looks exactly like the first one again. Turn it off, and the burns are fantastic for this media. I've wasted a bunch of discs investigating already.

*8T8* · 16-07-2005

I think ProdiscS03 was one of those oddball medias that the 1620 didn't like I have a scan from using that media back when B7T9 came out and of course it looks terrible, there was no way to turn off WOPC back then & I recall others posting bad scans of these media too.

*lui_gough* · 16-07-2005

I think the PIF readings are questionable. Notice the high amount of jitter? In my experience, should the jitter go about 16-20% or higher, most drives report rubbish numbers because it becomes impossible for the drive to correctly distinguish 1's and 0's

13-07-2005	#1
thia@9 New on Forum Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tokyo JP. Posts: 26	PIF higher than PIE? PIF higher than PIE Embedded Images View/download images and remove advertisements by registering now! (it's easy, free and takes less than a minute) You must be registered in order view images in this forum. I hear PIF can't be higher than PIE......is it wrong? [Burn drive] TEAC DV-W516E [Media] Samsung DigitAll DVD-R 1x(BeAll G00001) [Scan drive] BenQ DW1620

13-07-2005	#2
ILikePie CD Freaks Rookie Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: in front of my b0x0r? Posts: 40	Re: PIF higher than PIE? Pie ?!?

13-07-2005	#3
semo CD Freaks Rookie Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 40	Re: PIF higher than PIE? yeah that does not look good to me. what media have you used and @ what speed have you burned. i have not seen that id but then again i'm not that much of experience.

13-07-2005	#4
8T8 CDFreaks Resident Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 740	Re: PIF higher than PIE? Besidies the obvious high PIF have you tried the transfer rate test with both drives the Teac & BenQ to see whats its reading curve is like ? Just curious but does the BenQ Booktype tool work with that drive the TEAC DV-W516E their was a suggestion it could be a BenQ DQ60 but its more than likely its an original Teac design.

13-07-2005	#5
Xterminator CDFreaks Resident Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 726	Re: PIF higher than PIE? I would not worry so much about PIE or PIF in this case (and there is nothing that says which one should be lower, although usually there are more PI Errors than PI Failures), but even 1 POF is considered fatal - and you have 3000+ of them. Jitter of 35 is also extreme. I would hesitate to use this disc as a coaster. __________________ Active: Optiarc AD-7203A - BenQ DW1655 - Optiarc AD-5540 Retired: BenQ DW1620 - Samsung SH-S182M - Samsung SE-W164 - LG GSA-5163D - LG GSA-4163B - NEC 3500A - Philips DVDRW228 - QSI SBW-242SE - Plextor PX-708A, PX-W4012TA, PX-W2410TA, PX-W2410TU, PX-320A

Today
Mr. Adbot Register to remove me Join Date: Today Location: Myce HQ Posts: Zillions

Today
Adbot Always the best offers Join Date: Today Location: Myce HQ Posts: Zillions

13-07-2005	#6
Ma_Jie CD Freaks Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 212	Re: PIF higher than PIE? Xterminator: I have a disc with countless POFs, and it plays fine.... See here: Scan - Jie __________________ Ma Jie DVD Burners: (1) BenQ1620 OEM; (2) Philips8631@BenQ1620 BENQ CULTIST [sig changed by request]

13-07-2005	#7
Quikee Author of NecDump Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Maribor, Slovenia Posts: 2,780	Re: PIF higher than PIE? PIF can be higher than PIE if the drive reports all PIE without PIF as BenQ does. But if PIE are all PIE+PIF then this isn't possible. I know LiteOn reports PIE this way but I'm not sure about other drives. __________________ NecDump, WOPC Tool, BQFlasher 0.7.2 (+source), DVDScanner, DVDWrite,...

13-07-2005	#8
bichonn MyCE Resident Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Jouy-le-Moutier, Fr Posts: 1,476	Re: PIF higher than PIE? Beall G00001, what is this media??? I have never seen any? Is it common? __________________ Philips 1648p1 /\ BenQ 1650 \/ Samsung SH-S203B /\ Samsung SH-S223Q Vista Pro 64 /\ Phenom BE 9850 \/ ASUS M3A32-MVP deluxe WIFI /\ 4 go Gskill HZ 6400\/ Sapphire HD4890 1G0 Get your BEST Silicon Image 0680 bios for your addon cards HERE

13-07-2005	#11
ninbang MyCE Resident Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 842	Re: PIF higher than PIE? So, this media you've shown scans of is essentially 2 year old media? Possibly, that's the problem? Your 2nd scan (July 2003) is not a hall of fame achievement, but good enough for cheap media, I suppose. Still, it's a 95. Considering the media is now 2 years old and the media you're using is not very common (esp. if it's 1x stuff), so there's no telling how well the media 'ages' even without data written on them. Others have mentioned data integrity (and in this case, media integrity) is greatly influenced by the storage methods & conditions. Care to comment on how they've been kept over the last 2 years? The funny part is ... comparing the 2 scans ... your PIE's (max & ttls) actually DECREASED!! Lol.

13-07-2005	#12
ninbang MyCE Resident Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 842	Re: PIF higher than PIE? Btw, as Majie mentioned, I, too, have had media burned by an older LiteOn that produced tons of POF's and some of the ugliest scans I've seen. But, the good news is, they still play. I'd probably think twice about using that media for mission-critical data / burning. But, heck ... if you can play it back, then it's "useable". Worthy of some pyro-technics. G'luck.

13-07-2005	#13
Qyngali CDFreaks Resident Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: No(r)way Posts: 684	Re: PIF higher than PIE? In case you didn't notice, well actually you didn't notice. I'm not the thread starter. The scan I posted was burned on a Pioneer A04, date is in the scan. It's been stored in a regular jewel case on a shelf in the living room. I just posted it as a comparison.

14-07-2005	#14
ninbang MyCE Resident Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 842	Re: PIF higher than PIE? @Qyngali: OOOPS!!! My bad .... I promise to pay more attention from now on. Hehe.

15-07-2005	#17
ninbang MyCE Resident Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 842	Re: PIF higher than PIE? @thia@9: OMG!!!!! I don't think I've ever seen a 39.5" Jitter Max!!! Incredible. How do your other media burn in that Teac burner?

15-07-2005	#18
swifty7 CDFreaks Resident Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 716	Re: PIF higher than PIE? I have never seen scans that bad in my life, you guys should post those scans in the "hall of shame" thread!!! lol

15-07-2005	#21
ninbang MyCE Resident Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 842	Re: PIF higher than PIE? hmmm ... that's strange how disabling WOPC would improve the burn. If anything, I would've assumed there would be more errors. Those two scans ... like two completely different burners. Lol.

16-07-2005	#23
8T8 CDFreaks Resident Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 740	Re: PIF higher than PIE? I think ProdiscS03 was one of those oddball medias that the 1620 didn't like I have a scan from using that media back when B7T9 came out and of course it looks terrible, there was no way to turn off WOPC back then & I recall others posting bad scans of these media too.

16-07-2005	#24
lui_gough MyCE Resident Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: .au/sydney Posts: 1,291	Re: PIF higher than PIE? I think the PIF readings are questionable. Notice the high amount of jitter? In my experience, should the jitter go about 16-20% or higher, most drives report rubbish numbers because it becomes impossible for the drive to correctly distinguish 1's and 0's __________________ Drives I Own (and are in use in one of my many computers): - LiteOn iHBS212 - LG GGW-H20L - BenQ DW1640 - Samsung SH-222BB - Pioneer DVR-111L - Nu-Tech DDW-082 and more!

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Question about PIE and PIF?	OR-G	Asus / Pioneer Writer	5	09-11-2006 00:20
PIE and PIF or jitter	wildies	Disc Testing Methods and Software	2	28-09-2006 14:59
no PIE, but lots of PIF	Spires Video	Disc Testing Methods and Software	1	26-07-2006 21:37
Which is better lower PIE or PIF? 280 PIE Max? 8 PIF Max?	slikr	BenQ / Philips Writer	13	16-05-2005 08:27
Do RWs have higher total PIF/PIE counts than Rs?	darkconz	Plextor Writer	9	25-02-2005 00:34