Is it Possible to CrossFlash 4165@4167 ?

Hi all, I ordered a new 4163 after reading all comments about it on this forum. When received it , I get a box saying 4163 but into it I found a 4165 instead (date of Production June 2005) . I read here that is possible to crossflash it to 4167 but not found how to do. Can please someone tell me how to do (if real possible) ? Thanks in advance !!!

Bye!!!

Even if you can crossflash your drive you "only" gain 6x DVD+R DL instead of 4x and 48x CD-R instead of 40x

These are the differences between the two models
Then it's up to you if it's worthy or not

A.

Actually, by all accounts, the two drives are identical. The 4165B actually burns CDs at 48x. See here :

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.ph...97&postcount=8

and it also does +DL at 6x not 4x :

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.ph...3&postcount=13

The dimensions of the two drives are virtually identical :

http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.ph...6&postcount=26

Furthermore, I recall reading somewhere in this forum that the firmware for both drives is also virtually identical.

Apparently, many websites which gave the specs for the 4165B got them wrong. Btw, the person quoted in these posts owns a 4165B.

So it is quite pointless to cross flash the drives. I suppose you could try but do remember that it voids the warranty of the drive.

OK, but it's possible or not? If so, what I need to do?

Thanks.

Actually, the 4165B firmware does NOT support 6x DVD+R/DL writing. It's in the write descripters as posted, but the firmware does not allow it. I just put in an MKM001 disc to confirm, and it won't support it at higher than 4x.

Hmm.. ok so maybe they ARE different after all.

Well, I have an update, I have been able to successfully crossflash my 4165B to a 4167B it seems. Let me preface by saying that there is a definitely a possibility of ruining your drive by doing this, and it's completely at your own risk. Neither I, nor CDFreaks will be in any way responsible for what happens to your drive if you attempt this. That being said, here's how I went about doing it. It worked for me in a case with a prolific 3507 chipset via the USB connector, but the firewire portion gave me problems. That being said, it's probably best if you try this via an onboard IDE controller. I couldn't, since I use a laptop, but if you have access, take advantage of it. Also, please read all of the instructions before starting

1. Start flashing the drive with 4165B firmware DL04
2. As soon as the drives LED starts flashing, either turn off the drive (if in an external case) or turn off/hit the reset button on your computer (if connected to motherboard)
3. Upon reboot, the drive should be detected as a 4165B with firmware cr02, which is the same way a failed flash 4167B would be detected.
4. At this point both the 4165B and 4167B flasher will flash to the drive.
5. Flash with the 4167B DL12 flasher and wait for it to complete.
6. Reset the external drive case, or reboot the computer if hooked to motherboard.
7. Upon reboot your drive will be detected as a 4167B with DL12.

I have some testing to do to see if it performs correctly, but I did put in a DVD+R/DL disc, and it now says it can write at 6x, so that's a good sign. I see no reason it shouldn't work properly, since the 4165B and 4167B are the same hardware. Also, you should be able to flash back the original firmware, just replace the 4165B DL04 in step 1 with 4167B DL12.

My prediction is that this should also work in cases of flashing the internal to external firmware (ie 4163B to 5163D), but I don't have a 4163B, nor is there 5167D firmware yet, so I can't test. If anyone would like to test that on their own drive at their own risk, let us know the results. Good luck!

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Last edited by BeefJerky; 30-12-2005 at 02:23.

Just to make it a bit clearer: Interrupting the flashing process when upgrading the drive corrupts the firmware, so the drive is useless.
When this happens while flashing the boot code, the drive is dead.
When this happens while flashing the larger main part of the firmware, the boot code will recognise the corrupted main part during the next reboot and go to a safe mode, which just allows flashing the main part again. No reading or writing is supported in this mode. The LG flasher allows flashing a drive that is in safe mode, so it can be recovered.

Other drives might have no safe mode at all, so they will be dead or still show up, but be unflashable with standard flashers.

This kind of crossflash is an interesting approach, but it is not recommended at all.

You're correct that it can be very dangerous, hence the large warning at the beginning of my post. With the 4165B/4167B the boot code doesn't appear to get touched by the flasher at any point, so you shouldn't ever have a dead drive with those models from a bad flash. I'm not sure if the 4163B/5163D would have a safe mode, so, if somebody tries this approach with these drive, you very well may have a useless drive on your hands. But, while I won't say I recommend this to crossflash the 4165B/4167B, I also won't discourage it too much either, since IMHO, the safe mode will prevent a dead drive. But, as always, it's at your own risk.

Well, I was able to do a bit of testing with the DVD-R's I use, and hopefully in a few days I'll have a reason to write a DVD+R/DL (I can't justify burning one just for testing at the current price of the media). I read complaints of write quality on the 4167 being worse than the 4165, but either the DL12 firmware fixed that problem, or it's a media issue. I did scans on my NEC 3540, and while not the best scanner, it's good for comparison as long as you don't compare it to other drives scans.

I first tested it with some Verbatim MCC03RG20 discs. With the 4165 DL04 firmware I got good, but not great burns. With the 4167 DL12 firmware the burns are EXCELLENT, near-TYG03 quality.

I then tested with my TYG03 media. With the 4165 DL04 I got excellent burns, and with the 4167 DL12 even a bit better.

So far, I'm impressed with the 4167 DL12 firmware, and will call this crossflash experiment a great success.

There isn't any point in crossflashing a 4163B to a 5163D. The 5163D is essentially the 4163B in an external case. You don't gain any features by doing that.

In any case, I understand that if you use TDB's version of the 4163B firmware, you can flash a 5163D drive directly without needing to do anything else.

Dl12 made a huge difference in burn quality. Most of the reviews done of the 4167B drive only used DL11 and earlier. I think CDFreaks' own review was about the only one to use DL12 and the burn quality in that review was much improved. Also, if you have a look at the thread about 4167B quality scans, you'll see that it wasn't just that review - other users have been getting pretty decent quality scans from 4167B burns tool.

Well, it's good to know that LG finally fixed the quality problem then. Unfortunately, it looks like it took them longer than it should've. As far as the internal vs external firmware, I'm not sure that they're exactly the same, or if there's some other difference in the drive, but there is definitely something different; I'll explain.

With a 5163D, which comes in an external case with a Prolific 3507 bridgeboard, people are able to burn typically between 15x-16x, and no problems. But, if you put a 4163/4165/4167 in an external prolific case, you will. With current Prolific 3507 firmware, you get 14x-16x speeds, but you'll never be able to successfully burn an audio cd, nor upgrade the drives firmware while it's in the case. Now, if you put on LG's older bridgeboard firmware, you'll then be able to burn audio cd's and upgrade the drives firmware in the case, but you'll be locked to just under 12x speed. The interesting thing about it though, is that the burst rate is still 23MB/sec like the newer Prolific firmware. I know I'm not the only one, since I've seen other posts here from users dealing with the same issues. I honestly wonder if LG "enables" UDMA mode 4 on their external drives, but limits their internal drives to UDMA2, like Benq does with theirs. I'm using my 4165@4167 in an external box as we speak, and I start getting constant buffer underruns just before it hits 12x, and it continues like that for the rest of the burn, which can't make for a good burn, so I keep it at 8x.

BeefJerky, you're mad but I love it

I've read about this problem too. I'm not really sure the part that controls the transfer rate of the writer is in the firmware. On the other hand with BenQ's writers, it IS the firmware.

Has anyone tried using TDB's versions of 5163 firmware though? Since their 4163 firmware can apparently be used to flash 5163s (meaning whatever restrictions that prevented the firmware from being used on anything other than the 4163 were removed), it is possible that the same has been done for the 5163 firmware. It may be possible to flash a 4163 in a prolific ext casing with TDB's version of 5163 firmware.

I love too !!!

Media MCC 02RG20

1st) Burning @8x with 4165 DL04=Coaster

2nd) Burning @8x with 4165@4167 DL12= Good

Bugger, I can't get the LG Firmware updater to update my 4165B in Prolific 3507 based external case.
It finds the drive but nothing happens when the update is started.

I did a while back pull the drive out of the case and plugged it into MB and updated to DL04.
But would be nice to update without all this hassle of pulling drive out going to friends place then putting it all back together again.

I have tried using USB and Firewire neither work.

How do you guys get on with the same controller, would love to try the 4167B DL12 firmware.

I only have a laptop and use it via the Firewire port mostly, as my lappy only has USB1.1

You need LG's 3507 bridgeboard firmware. Be aware, that while it will give you the ability to update the drives firmware in the case, and write audio CD's properly, it will lock your drive to just under 12x max writing speed, so unless you do an 8x write, your drive will constantly have buffer underruns, and give a poor burn, whereas the newer prolific firmware will let you have faster speeds. No one has been able to figure out why the 4163/4165/4167 is slower in the external cases with LG's firmware, but their own external drives aren't slower. I just write at 8x, and am happy enough with that at the moment. At any rate, if you want to put on LG's 3507 firmware go here http://us.lge.com/www/support/index.jsp
Select Driver downloads, then dvd writers, then on page 2 look for the 5160D controller card firmware, download and follow directions.

Cheers for that BJ,

Took a few goes to get the LG 3507 FW to upload, I had already updated to the latest prolific 3507 firmware dated 28-11-2005 yesterday.
But after a few goes it finally updated, I see the LG 3507 firmware is dated 13-12-2004 (a year older)
Now when I try to update the Firmware for the 4165B (DL04) I get this error:

Any ideas ?

Odd, after putting on the LG bridgeboard firmware I'm able to update the drive via both firewire and USB. First things first, just to check, did you reboot both the computer, and power off and on the external case? Also, sometimes people have better luck updating the drives firmware from USB rather than firewire, or vice versa.

USB was a no go at all, as above.

With Firewire I was able to update the firmware (I tested DL04) all went well.
After a reboot, I proceded to go through your list above.

I started with uploading DL04 and switching off the drive when the LED started to flash then reboot machine.
After reboot and seeing no drive at all with the Firewire cable and also no drive detected with the LG firmware flasher.
I then hooked it back up with the USB cable and the lappy found the drive also the correct name for it.
But I can't get the drive reflashed, the flasher won't even start.
I fear I have created a door stop.

Hmmm, I'll have to do somemore testing.

Odd, my guess is it's something to do with you only having USB 1.1 on your computer. Have you tried diffferent USB ports on the computer? Also, try the USB ports on another computer or a USB 2.0 pc card in your laptop. Worst case, you will be able to flash it using an onboard IDE port if you can get a hold of someones desktop computer.

I'll pop round to my mates place later in the week.
And I'll attach it to his MB.

I have a feeling the drive is a doorstop, the door won't open, no lights show up when powering.

When booting up with Firewire I get a drive F: (normally my LG drive) with a question mark beside it.
When I reboot with the USB it becomes drive G: but when I right click on it nothing happens (ie no properties)
But if I remove then attach the drive it recognises the brand and model.
So there is some hope.

I'm wondering, the LG Firmware updater goes through 2 stages of the LED flashing.
After a few seconds the LED flashes slowly then after a few more seconds the drive flashes really fast.
Would the first set of LED flashes be updating the 'Safe Mode', then the 2nd set of fast LED flashes be updating the main firmware ?
By turning of in the first part (as I did) the 'Safe Mode' is corrupt and drive is unusable.

Just wondering, wouldn't want others to turn the drive off in the wrong place.

Not too worried the 4167B is quite a bit cheaper than the 4165B, but still can't really afford to throw money away

I turned my drive off during the first part of the flashing, after only a few slow flashes. If it's detecting the brand/model the safe mode is working fine. I have a feeling once you hook it to a USB 2.0 port you'll be able to flash it fine.

Solved all my problems and hair pulling and trying to explain to the Mrs why there was going to be another C'Card bill for something we already have

The answer to all my problems is SAFE MODE.

In safe mode there is no need to first update the Prolific 3507 controller firmware to the LG one.
I was able to update to the DL12 firmware with USB1.1 and it was a breeze.
What seems to be happening there must be a driver (might even be DVD-RAM) or INCD that is blocking/monitoring the DVD burner and stopping.corrupting how it works when attempting to work on the Firmware.

16x burning seems to be working just as normal, I havn't had much time to test this yet.

Here is a piccy of what the drive looks like in windows after the FW upgrade.
Before the drive would never show only the Prolific controller would come up.
Also notice the latest Prolific 3507 firmware used to do this


I have uploaded a 7-zipped (2.73MB) file 4165B_4167B.exe with :
ROMWriter 2.2.1
Prolific 3507 firmware v2005.11.28.148 (Latest)
LG 3507 firmware (for those that need it)
Firmware LG-4165B DL-04 (both LG default and RPC1)
Firmware LG-4176B DL-12 (must now find RPC1 firmware and add it)

This should be enough to get anybody going with a 4165B

Thanks BJ for your help with this, the learning curve was steep