DVR-108 and 40 or 80 pin IDE cable?

jackal2001

Now I have seen some posts in the past about this but I would like to get a better answer that makes sense. Some people say that you need to install this drive with an 80pin ide cable. Others say a 40 is fine due to the fact that you can't possibly max out the bandwidth on a 40 pin cable anyway for burning dvds.
In any event I only have mine hooked up to a 40 pin due to the fact that an 80pin will just not reach both my drives that the cable is hooked up to. I have only burned at 4x so far and knock on wood I have had no issues. I will try one at 12 or 16 eventually just to see what happens.

Some people say that you will get errors writing, reading etc if you only use a 40 pin ide cable.

SO WHAT IS THE TRUTH???

__________________
Readers:
Lite-On XJ-HD166S DVD-ROM

Writers:
Lite-On 32123S CDRW
Toshiba SD-R5002 DVD-R
Pioneer DVR-108 DL DVD-R

_chef_

You maybe could try SIMULATION burn to see if the data is fast enough supplied...

jackal2001

Simulating right now, but nero only shows a max of 12x (16,620KB) Now according to ATA standards a ATA 33 HDD will do a theoratical burst speed of 33MB/s on a 40 pin cable.

12x only showing 16MB/s (guestimate). In theory there should be no problems burning at 16x on a 40pin cable.

Now it did take with nero 6min25sec to complete but I don't think nero starts at exactly 12x. I did get no buffer underruns or burnproof saved the burn messages. I tested on true TY02 disks.

12x is fine by me anyway.

__________________
Readers:
Lite-On XJ-HD166S DVD-ROM

Writers:
Lite-On 32123S CDRW
Toshiba SD-R5002 DVD-R
Pioneer DVR-108 DL DVD-R

_chef_

Drive starts at 6x, then shifts to 8x and later to 12x.

jackal2001

So there should be no doubt that a 40wire IDE cable is perfectly fine for this drive at max speed. I don't know why people are saying that you need an 80wire cable.
Now granted, in the future with blue lasers you may need to switch to an 80wire cable, but by then hell, they might use serial ata or something else.

__________________
Readers:
Lite-On XJ-HD166S DVD-ROM

Writers:
Lite-On 32123S CDRW
Toshiba SD-R5002 DVD-R
Pioneer DVR-108 DL DVD-R

humeyboy

Total rubbish, anyone using this drive should use a 80core cable as pioneer made this drive ata 66 udma 4, it not matter what anyone else says, its to cover your backside when it use a burst rate like a ata 133 hdd cant do 133MB sec even in burst rate.

I dont follow WTF is the big deal in buying a 80 core cable as 40 should be as dead as a DODO like 650MB cdr. please move on out stoneage.

If you use 80 core cable you will make syre you got best change of running fully and not emptying bufer all time.

IM NOT SAYING IT CANT RUN PERFECT ON 40, just you should do what pioneer say you do, it not going to cost anymore money.

Anyone who wants to question this can set in bios there ata 133 hdd udma5 to ata 66 udma4 as it wont faster anyone apart from od burst. LOL

Why have i and others got 0 probs on this drive, i tell you why, mines is master a channel with a 80 core cable, this week it shares the secondary with a slave ata 33 udma33 cdwriter/dvd combo as im on a ata 100hdd udma 5 on primary ata channel on its own.

Normaly both roms are masters on their own ata channels sharing with no other devices as i use a SATA hdd

_chef_

I agree, but Pioneer doesn't mention nor recommend the use of a 80pin especially.
BTW, the port is always 40pin, just some dealers mis-name the cables........ they should know it better.

jackal2001

Like I said, 80wire cables will not reach from my board to my roms. I have about 30, 80wire cables and guess what, they are all the same length. Now I don't know if you go looking for one in a store, they might sell longer ones, but I don't have any. Now they do make longer 40wire cables. Which I have and use for my roms.

I run 3 burners and 1 dvd reader, 2 SATA HDDS RAID 0, Athlon 64 3500+, 2GB DDR400.

I am not saying that you can't use a 80wire cable, but there is no need to do so. A 40wire should work just fine. Now if your board will only enable DMA with a 80wire cable then I guess you have to use one.

__________________
Readers:
Lite-On XJ-HD166S DVD-ROM

Writers:
Lite-On 32123S CDRW
Toshiba SD-R5002 DVD-R
Pioneer DVR-108 DL DVD-R

humeyboy

40 core aint ok , pioneer made device ata 66 udma4 for a reason not fun, if only problem holding you back form using 80 cores is length, you can easily buy longer ones from diff store or get nice rounded ones most are very long, and avail in short length to.

The 1st advise i will give to anyone here who comes in with a problems with their drive is to get it on as master on a 80core cable if not already.

bighun1952

if you want to do high speed burning you need a 80 column cable and as for length the 80 column cables i use are just the same length as the 40 column ones

cheers bighun1952

Wesociety

80 wire cables should also provide better support / less problems when using 2 different devices on the same cable / IDE channel.

You say you can't find an 80 wire cable long enough?
How long does it need to be?
There are plenty of rounded "enhanced airflow" 80 wire IDE cables on the market that seem to be longer than standard ribbon cables.

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jackal2001

standard ide cables look to be about 18inches.
I will check around to see if there are any longer.

by the way, I am having no problems using a 40wire cable. My point is that you shouldn't need any additional bandwidth over a 40wire anyway.

-------

Well I found 36" long ones on newegg, so I ordered 2. I can use them anyway since my current ones are stretched. I will see if it makes a difference or not. Probably not.

Where is it stated that pioneer designed this drive to operate at ATA66 specs anyway???

__________________
Readers:
Lite-On XJ-HD166S DVD-ROM

Writers:
Lite-On 32123S CDRW
Toshiba SD-R5002 DVD-R
Pioneer DVR-108 DL DVD-R

bighun1952

take a look here in the specs of the 108 it states that it is atapi 5
http://www.pioneer-eur.com/eur/produ...onomy_id=43-92
also the atapi 5 specs are below stating that you need an 80 column ide cable to run udma4 devices

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/stdATA5-c.html

cheers bighun1952

Bjproc

I bought a 80 core wire from ebuyer (Belkin IDE Dual Ribbon Cable 24"), I think that 24" will fit most PC's

Bj

_chef_

Tastes bad that Pioneer doesn't mention that in the MANUAL sheet which comes with the drive!!

rugger

You can run the pioneer on a 40pin cable if you want, it works fine with the pioneer.

You won't be able to use 16speed dvd burning, but since 16 speed only kicks in for a very limited time, its hardly a situation to panic about.

jackal2001

Well I got by 80wire cables in and all my drives stuck at Ultra DMA Mode 2 except my 108. The 108 did change to Mode 4.

So I guess for all you guys wondering, now you have your answer.
It should work properly up to 12x writing on a 40wire ide cable in dma mode 2.
For 16x writing it would be best to put in a 80wire ide cable and go to dma mode 4.

__________________
Readers:
Lite-On XJ-HD166S DVD-ROM

Writers:
Lite-On 32123S CDRW
Toshiba SD-R5002 DVD-R
Pioneer DVR-108 DL DVD-R

humeyboy

Why is this still ongoing, use a damn 80 ribbon as device is ata 66 udma mode 4 as Pioneer ment it to be, i dont care what anyone says, its best to use this then you look to other issues why you may have problems. ive had 0 probs on any firmware and running this pionner on own eide as hdd is sata or even shating a ide as i tried with ata hdd so longs its master on a 80 ribbon,
is it such a big deal in 21st centuary to buy a 80 ribbon.

I burn a full datawrite grey/silver dvd-r at 16x in 6m 30s at 12x in 7m 02sec. so 16x is working at end of burn on this 8x media and no playback probs in mutliple pc drives or standalones.


jackal2001 this isnt aimed at you just overall, peeps need to fit this drive correctly then come here and look for other reasons its not working correctly, it may or may not work 100% ok on a 40core but i dont see the point in even using 40 cores.

rehab junkie

I've been using a 40-conductor cable on my DVR108 with no issues whatsoever; this is only because I don't have a second 80-core cable and I already have two disks on the first.

__________________
Bustin caps in the mix, rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.

doozey11

There is no "extra bandwidth" to be obtained with an 80 conductor cable, just "better" bandwidth. The 40 conductor cable copper strands are perfectly capable of passing at least ATA133 constant data flow rates - it already does. In fact ALL the digital data goes thru the 40 (39) conductors, whatever the DMA mode. The additional 40 conductors for higher rated cables are each at ground plane between every one of the 40 data strands, and form a barrier to crosstalk which will degrade the square wave signalling integrity at higher rates of transfer. The more difficultly the drive's detecting circuitry has in determining the discreet plus to zero voltage switching, the more possibilities for error there is in resolving digital bits. Is it a "one" or is it a "zero"? Is one strand "zigging" while an adjacent strand is "zagging" at that exact instant? We are not dealing with bandwidth here, but noise/xtalk filtering. In other words, 80 conductor is always better, since it cant hurt under any condition. As was said, no one should still be using 40 conductors. In fact, the drive is designed to detect the cables presence to even permit the transfers at given UDMA. No 80 cable - no higher DMA config. As noted above, the user switched to 80 and UDMA auto increased by self detection.

humeyboy

Dont talk total rubbish, 40 cores is maxed to ata 66 udma2, why dont you all fit the damn 80 core cables, like device is made to use.

Where device uses max or not its a buffer, go mail all major dvd drive makers and bore them with your crap.

Im sick of idiots and this 40 / 80 ribbon thread

Ive never seen a HDD running ata 133 udma 5 on a 40 core what a joke.

doozey11

**sigh**
My first post here and I get some nasty boy with poor English comprehension not taking his daily dose of Prozac.

To refresh, I said:
a.) A 40 conductor cable wont run at ATA66 or higher because the device it is attatched to must detect the 80 strand cable - but this is not a "bandwidth problem".
b.) The data still only goes down 40 of the 80 strands
c.) The extra grounded strands are for signal integrity in the original 40

Quote for the retarded one:
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/conf_Cable80.htm
http://www.t13.org/

Ultra DMA (80-Conductor) IDE/ATA Cables

There are a lot of issues and problems associated with the original 40-conductor IDE cable, due to its very old and not very robust design. Unterminated flat ribbon cables have never been all that great in terms of signal quality and dealing with reflections from the end of the cable. The warts of the old design were tolerable while signaling speeds on the IDE/ATA interface were relatively low, but as the speed of the interface continued to increase, the limitations of the cable were finally too great to be ignored.

In the ATA/ATAPI-4 standard that introduced the Ultra DMA transfer mode set, a new cable was introduced to replace the old standby: the 80-conductor IDE/ATA cable. The name is important: the new cable has 80 conductors (wires)--it does not have 80 pins on each connector, though, just 40. This means that the new cable is pin-compatible with the old drive. No change has been made to the IDE/ATA connectors, aside from the color-coding issue (see below).

The obvious question, of course, is this: what's the point of adding 40 extra wires to a cable if they aren't connected to anything? :^) Well for starters, the 40 wires are connected to something, just not their own pins on the interface connectors. The extra 40 wires don't carry new information, they are just used to separate the "real" 40 signal wires, to reduce interference and other signaling problems associated with higher-speed transfers. So the 40 extra conductors are connected to ground, interspersed between the original 40 conductors of the old cable. Any stray signals that would "cross-talk" between adjacent wires on the 40-conductor cable are "absorbed" by these extra ground wires, improving signal integrity. The extra ground wires can be either all of the even-numbered wires, or all of the odd-numbered wires in the cable.

There are a number of other attributes and characteristics of the 80-conductor cable, which I'm going to list in bullet form for easier absorption:

* Requirement: The 80-conductor cable was first defined with the original Ultra DMA modes 0, 1 and 2, covering transfer speeds up to 33.3 MB/s. The cable is considered "optional" for those modes. However, for any Ultra DMA modes above mode 2, the 80-conductor cable is mandatory.
* Detection: Since the cable is mandatory for high-speed modes, the system has to have some way of knowing it is installed. This is done by having the /PDIAG:/CBLID signal, carried on pin #34 of the interface, grounded in the connector that attaches to the motherboard. Since the older 40-conductor cable would not have this pin grounded, by looking for the grounding on this pin at startup the host can determine if the 80-conductor cable is installed.
* Cable Select Support and Drive Assignment: All 80-conductor cables that meet the ATA specifications support the cable select feature automatically. This is accomplished by special connection of the CSEL signal on pin #28. The cable can still be used with drives that have been manually configured as master or slave, of course. See the discussion of cable select for more.
* Connector Assignments and Color Coding: For the first time, the 80-conductor cable defines specific roles for each of the connectors on the cable; the older cable did not. Color coding of the connectors is used to make it easier to determine which connector goes with each device:
o Blue: The blue connector attaches to the host (motherboard or controller).
o Gray: The gray connector is in the middle of the cable, and goes to any slave (device 1) drive if present on the channel.
o Black: The black connector is at the opposite end from the host connector and goes to the master drive (device 0), or a single drive if only one is used.

~~~~snipped~~~~~

O.K., now who's the fool, "Humeyboy"

humeyboy

You are a asshole fact, ok.
Your not helping anyone broadcasting 40 core cables are ideal, i never said it wouldnt work but may not work, go pester pioneer with you anal crap you read on web, every normal half decent pc user knows to use a 80 ribbon on a device of ata 66 udma 2 and above, the cthread is still going proves your a sad prick.

If anyone here got probs with this writer i say first put on 80 ribbon as master then look down other avenues.

Im not going to reply again as i got better things to do, but i will help peeps who need it, but not get in flame wars with assholes like you that read to mucg google findings.

Also yes my typing aint the best but im Scottish not english, your 1st post and you making enemies already, and you prob from USA, WTF do they know about talking or spelling english.

Bjproc

Well said humeyboy.

Fellow Scot.

doozey11

My Dear Mr. Huneboy:

You seem to have a real problem with anger management. To see someone get so emotional over a talk about IDE cables is quite amazing. The fact is, that you have repeatedly put your OPINION on this subject at least 4 times here, seeming unable to accept any answer but your own. So let me explain how a computer BB works.....
Many people put in their input, from their respective knowledge on the subject, and eventually the real answer makes itself evident to everybody. There is a friendly flow of posts with all players having the common goal of trying to help someone. When a very vile person like yourself inserts himself into the discourse, you disrupt the discussion to the point of shutting down the thread, since NORMAL people dont want to be exposed to ugliness. And you have actually stopped the information two-way debate dead in it's tracks here.

While you claim English as your primary language, the incoherent batches of words you patch together, at the very least, do not show a very high level of education - you simply still don't seem to be able to grasp what I have tried to explain. It's as if I was posting on a Russian site, in Russian, and was trying to converse with someone about technical things in a language I am not truly familiar with. You say you are "Scottish", but perhaps your true "homeland" is somewhere else. The only other conclusion I can make is that you abused drugs at an earlier time in life to the point of damaging your thinking capabilities. Or perhaps, you are drunk when you post?

Actually, if you had taken the time to read my first post, I had agreed with you as to the fact that everyone should use 80 strand cables.

I made no "enemies" here. I made a simple post about 80 pin cables. You came right back with your "bullshit" remark. It is quite apparent that you are angry with the World, and your place in it, and are SEEKING enemies by insulting people for no good reason. And like I said, you and your big mouth are ruining this nice forum of nice helpful people.

And for what it's worth, your word is not the last word on anything here, despite how smart you think you are.