Old 04-12-2006   #1
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Utorrent - What does the SEEDS column mean?

I'm using Utorrent to download stuff. There is a SEEDS column that displays something like this: 0 (21) or 7 (32)

Does that mean I'm connected to 0 true seeders, but am downloading from 21 partially seeded (not 100% finished) downloads? Or I'm connected to 7 true seeders and 32 partially seeded downloads?

Sometimes when I download, the number stays at ZERO on the left side, but somehow the download finishes anyway. I'm not sure how that is possible.

Anybody able to provide some insight? I would appreciate the help.

Thanks,

BK
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Old 04-12-2006   #2
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Re: Utorrent - What does the SEEDS column mean?

Seeds means just that. Users that have 100% of the torrent & are only downloading. Peers/leechers are those at less than 100% who you are d/ling from & uploading to.

With 0(21) in the seeds column this means there are 21 seeders in the connection pool , but you're not connected directly to any. Because of the way BT works it can still mean that there's 100% of the torrent available directly to you without any of the peers having the 100%.

Does that help?
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Old 04-12-2006   #3
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Re: Utorrent - What does the SEEDS column mean?

Ohh - so there are 21 seeders in the connection pool, and even though I am not directly connected to them - one on one (like a switch would do for network traffic) - I am still able to get pieces of the torrents they are seeding but from signals bouncing off of different peers (like a hub would do for network traffic)?

So 0 (21) would mean "Hey, no direct path to the data, but the data can bounce around a few places and find its way to your Utorrent client"

Less efficient than a direct connection, but still allowing you to get the data, right?

BTW, thank you for taking the time to answer my question. It may be a bone-head question, but for some reason, I'm having trouble figuring it out when I do searches. Lots of tech info, but not many "summation" stuff that explains it in laymans terms.
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Old 04-12-2006   #4
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Re: Utorrent - What does the SEEDS column mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeardedKirklander
Less efficient than a direct connection, but still allowing you to get the data, right?

BTW, thank you for taking the time to answer my question. It may be a bone-head question, but for some reason, I'm having trouble figuring it out when I do searches. Lots of tech info, but not many "summation" stuff that explains it in laymans terms.
The idea is that everyone gets a share with the seeders distributing parts of the torrent around the connections. It's not necessarily less efficient but does mean that a single seeder could d/l just the file , say 700mb, just the once & the whole 700mb is shared around those connected peers and that seeder could go offline & still everyone will eventually get the whole torrent. That's probably overly simplistic & inaccurate but you get the idea.

I believe what I've explained is ,in summary , accurate but it's likely that my knowledge of this is only slightly greater than yours.
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Old 04-12-2006   #5
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Re: Utorrent - What does the SEEDS column mean?

Cool beans. Thanks for the help.

For PEERS, say it says 40 (354). That would mean 40 people are directly connected to my seeding client, but 354 are indirectly involved in data exchange regarding that same torrent, right?
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Old 04-12-2006   #6
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Re: Utorrent - What does the SEEDS column mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeardedKirklander
Cool beans. Thanks for the help.

For PEERS, say it says 40 (354). That would mean 40 people are directly connected to my seeding client, but 354 are indirectly involved in data exchange regarding that same torrent, right?
Yes , I'd say so.
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Old 04-12-2006   #7
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Re: Utorrent - What does the SEEDS column mean?

on a just released torrent I have seen an interesting pattern, no peers have more than 20%, you climb to 20 fairly fast and stall, trickle for a while then peak, someone(s) in the group has access to the full torrent share and is feeding the whole group

maybe after the swarm(?) reaches 80% then all parts are available and a steady download finishes
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Old 05-12-2006   #8
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Re: Utorrent - What does the SEEDS column mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaChew
on a just released torrent I have seen an interesting pattern, no peers have more than 20%, you climb to 20 fairly fast and stall, trickle for a while then peak, someone(s) in the group has access to the full torrent share and is feeding the whole group

maybe after the swarm(?) reaches 80% then all parts are available and a steady download finishes
Sounds exactly right to me. Happens all too frequently.
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Old 05-12-2006   #9
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Re: Utorrent - What does the SEEDS column mean?

I always wondered about that bracketed # myself, thanks.

As far as that pattern goes, I'm pretty sure that happens when someone is seeding with the "initial seeding" setting checked - the same as superseeding.

"A super seed will usually upload fewer bits before downloaders begin to complete than a standard seed by strictly limiting the uploading of duplicate pieces. That does not necessarily mean that the uploading will take less time. The time it takes for the first completion of a downloader when super seeding becomes limited by the upload rate of the peers connected to it. Further, the seed does not have global information about piece distribution and may not be informed of a piece being uploaded because it was uploaded to a peer not connected to the seed. That is particularly a problem if the seed cannot accept incoming connections. If many seeds on a mature torrent are using super seed mode, the performance of the torrent will be limited.

Super seed mode is most useful for seeds that pay for upload bandwidth by the byte. In that case, super seeding makes sense as it minimizes the costs required to seed a torrent. In other cases, the benefits of super seeding are not so clear. The configuration of peers and their individual upload capacities over the spectrum of individual torrents varies wildly. Seeding strategy and detecting at download time when a given strategy is most appropriate is a promising area of research.

The overall positive effect is not reserved only for the initial seeder, however, since the method creates multiple seeds in a more efficient manner than "average" seeding in a limited number of cases (one seeder, multiple incomplete peers). In practice, once the initial seeder uploads one complete copy of the file, multiple new seeds will emerge in a matter of minutes, thus boosting the overall uploading speed of the swarm."

I see the sense in this, as it does create a lot of seeds at once (ever had it happen when there's a bunch of you stuck around 95%? Superseeding.) But I get pissed, too, because at my download potential I can get the whole file then upload to a 2 ratio in less than half the time otherwise. It's like I'm being throttled. However, now that I've been cut off by my ISP 3 time for exceeding my bandwidth cap, I may use it myself in the future...
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